110 break in procedure...

Kelly W · 10-09-2014, 03:13 PM

Hi everyone, new to the forum...

I have 2 generic 110 Chinese quads, one virtually brand new but 2nd hand, and one that's very well used.

New 110

Old 110

Both are semi auto with reverse. The new one is a chain drive rear end, and the older one is a shaft drive.

I'm going to change the default supplied oil in the new ATV this weekend and take it out for a first gentile ride. Unfortunately neither quad had any kind of an instruction manual though, so I'm looking for some guidance on the break in procedure, what oil I should use for the 1st few changes, etc.

I'd appreciate any comments / suggestions.

Thanks,
Kelly W

humanbeing · 10-09-2014, 05:04 PM

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
---
ANY 15W40 diesel oil.
If u believes those BS, http://www.shell.com/rotella/products/tpl-pro.html is JASO MA rated

midlifekrisiz · 10-09-2014, 08:22 PM

Give er!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Weldangrind · 10-10-2014, 12:54 AM

Welcome Kelly!

Both quads are cool, but I really like the camo version.

HB has given you good guidance. Any 15W40 that you can get cheap will do, now and after break-in. Try to limit full-throttle pulls inside of the first 10 hours.

Kelly W · 10-16-2014, 07:28 PM

Thanks guys, nice to meet you all! Weld, we're not far from each other... I'm in Delta, work in North Surrey.

I got the green camo 110 out for its first run last weekend up in Hope.

The tread on the tires was completely fresh, so I doubt its was ever driven more than 20 ft prior, even though it was originally made in 08'. I didn't go easy on it, but not too hard either (after finding out how many loose fasteners there were!

)

On 1st look the splined wheel hub nuts and disc brake nuts were loose on the rear shaft. I expect to be replacing a lot of the nuts with ny-locks and / or flooding the joints with loctite... Most of the weekend was spent changing oil, going through the necessary stuff to feel safe at 20 or 30 kph... I see common questions about looking for manuals, but I'm guessing a torque spec for each fastener is even more of a long shot...

After bolts, the only major issue was getting it to idle - as in in just WON'T idle!

To drive it, the throttle needed to be kept 10-20% open or so. I suspect the low end / idle circuit is plugged. The prev owner had a filter in line and said he drained the carb, but 6 years is a long time to gather sediment, oxidation, etc... For now I screwed the idle speed screw all the way in to see if I could push it up into the next circuit, but still no joy. If I had the throttle open just enough to sustain the engine, the idle mixture screw had zero effect on the RPM or sound. I'm assuming there was no fuel flow at the bottom end at all.

For now I have a backup brand-new carb on the way, along with a rebuild kit for this one. Looking fwd to getting it to behave a bit better in the low end, so I can restrict it down and let my 11 yr old give it a try.

The blue one is a different story - and a far a bigger project. i just replaced the carb on it as well. Still needs tuning, but the major hurdles are wiring and finding / making bushings for all the suspension joints. One issue I don't know how to tackle is a strange howling noise I get at higher throttle settings in 3rd gear. It only goes away after backing off to a near stop.

Thx for the helps so far everyone!
Kelly

Weldangrind · 10-17-2014, 07:54 PM

It sounds like you're well aquainted with your quads, and you're well aware of the steps you need to take with the carbs.

I'm quite curious to learn about the howling noise. Could it be from the rear axle?

FLASHLIGHTBOY · 10-18-2014, 11:48 AM

usually the noise in 3rd gear is a rough bearing in the trans... this is what I have found out.... not much you can do except to live with it... or tear it down.. I have people try different oils and add some STP or LUCAS OIL.. helped a little but not fully.. keep us tuned n as to what you find

Kelly W · 10-20-2014, 02:46 PM

Thanks guys,

On the old howling 110, I'll see if i can get a video next time I'm at the cabin.

It's definitely coming from the gearbox area, and seems to happen once the motor's come up to temp. One at running temp, the howling seems pretty repeatable and the power level needed to start the howling seems to be getting lower and lower.

It sounds a lot like a bearing spinning in a bore, or a shaft spinning inside a bearing race. Some have said this could be a manufacturing tolerance issue in the gear train. I'm a mechanical engineer, so stuff like this tends to bug the crap out of me without knowing a root cause...

For all I know, the older 110 may still need a proper break in procedure too. There are signs of decay, but mainly from elements and being left outside. There are very few signs of actual wear. The tire lugs are till pretty sharp. Funny, the body is 2-tone, but use to be all blue. For quite a while the front end was removed and the remainder faded in the sun... I'm going to sand blast the entire body and try to bring it back to life a bit over the winter.

I'll get a video of the sound, and maybe start a thread about diagnosing the problem. In the mean time, if you guys or anyone else have a photo or two of a 110 semi auto engine with the transmission internals exposed, I'd love to see what I'm getting myself into.

Kelly

Weldangrind · 10-20-2014, 03:22 PM

As a point of trivia, a semi-auto 50, 70, 90, 110 or 125 would be quite similar (if not identical) in the transmission. The only difference is likely in bore and stroke. That may help in your search for pics and vids.

So cool to have a Mechanical Engineer on board!

Kelly W · 10-20-2014, 05:52 PM

Funny, most of my friends think I'm crazy to get 2 Chinese quads. The more I look at them, its like an adults version of a box of Lego!

On these engines, are the gearbox ratios identical - leaving the overall gearing for each engine size in the hands of the sprocket and rear drive shaft gear set?

I've tried a bunch of google image searches without much luck. When I crack this one open, I'll post a hundred photos for the next guy to look through! Hopefully the sound is a easy one to diagnose. That'll be a while though. lots of more important gremlins to kill 1st.

Kelly

Weldangrind · 10-20-2014, 11:26 PM

These are decent videos:

Kelly W · 10-22-2014, 12:41 PM

Thanks Weld, didn't know you had to get so far into the engine before gaining access to the shaft assemblies in the tranny. That's a good intro to the project that lies ahead...

I've heard on another forum that the noise can be a tolerance issue on one of the gears. If the issue happens in 3rd I suspect it could be the interaction between the 1st gear on its shaft when decoupled and free spinning. It could be hitting a resonance. 1st up I'll ride it some more, get a video with sound, and see if the magnet in my drain plug shows anything interesting...

Kelly

Weldangrind · 10-23-2014, 10:51 AM

Looking forward to hearing more about it. If you decide to split the case, please take pics.

10-09-2014, 03:13 PM	#1
Kelly W Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Delta, BC (near Vancouver) Posts: 8	110 break in procedure... Hi everyone, new to the forum... I have 2 generic 110 Chinese quads, one virtually brand new but 2nd hand, and one that's very well used. New 110 Old 110 Both are semi auto with reverse. The new one is a chain drive rear end, and the older one is a shaft drive. I'm going to change the default supplied oil in the new ATV this weekend and take it out for a first gentile ride. Unfortunately neither quad had any kind of an instruction manual though, so I'm looking for some guidance on the break in procedure, what oil I should use for the 1st few changes, etc. I'd appreciate any comments / suggestions. Thanks, Kelly W
	0

10-09-2014, 05:04 PM	#2
humanbeing Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,436	http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm --- ANY 15W40 diesel oil. If u believes those BS, http://www.shell.com/rotella/products/tpl-pro.html is JASO MA rated __________________
	0

10-09-2014, 08:22 PM	#3
midlifekrisiz Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Chilliwack, B.C., Canada eh Posts: 1,393	Give er!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOO __________________ I could be wrong......it has been known to happen<div><br /></div><div>core directive 172: No member of the core shall report for duty wearing a ginger toupee</div>
	0

10-10-2014, 12:54 AM	#4
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Welcome Kelly! Both quads are cool, but I really like the camo version. HB has given you good guidance. Any 15W40 that you can get cheap will do, now and after break-in. Try to limit full-throttle pulls inside of the first 10 hours. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

10-17-2014, 07:54 PM	#6
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	It sounds like you're well aquainted with your quads, and you're well aware of the steps you need to take with the carbs. I'm quite curious to learn about the howling noise. Could it be from the rear axle? __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

10-16-2014, 07:28 PM	#5
Kelly W Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Delta, BC (near Vancouver) Posts: 8	Thanks guys, nice to meet you all! Weld, we're not far from each other... I'm in Delta, work in North Surrey. I got the green camo 110 out for its first run last weekend up in Hope. The tread on the tires was completely fresh, so I doubt its was ever driven more than 20 ft prior, even though it was originally made in 08'. I didn't go easy on it, but not too hard either (after finding out how many loose fasteners there were! ) On 1st look the splined wheel hub nuts and disc brake nuts were loose on the rear shaft. I expect to be replacing a lot of the nuts with ny-locks and / or flooding the joints with loctite... Most of the weekend was spent changing oil, going through the necessary stuff to feel safe at 20 or 30 kph... I see common questions about looking for manuals, but I'm guessing a torque spec for each fastener is even more of a long shot... After bolts, the only major issue was getting it to idle - as in in just WON'T idle! To drive it, the throttle needed to be kept 10-20% open or so. I suspect the low end / idle circuit is plugged. The prev owner had a filter in line and said he drained the carb, but 6 years is a long time to gather sediment, oxidation, etc... For now I screwed the idle speed screw all the way in to see if I could push it up into the next circuit, but still no joy. If I had the throttle open just enough to sustain the engine, the idle mixture screw had zero effect on the RPM or sound. I'm assuming there was no fuel flow at the bottom end at all. For now I have a backup brand-new carb on the way, along with a rebuild kit for this one. Looking fwd to getting it to behave a bit better in the low end, so I can restrict it down and let my 11 yr old give it a try. The blue one is a different story - and a far a bigger project. i just replaced the carb on it as well. Still needs tuning, but the major hurdles are wiring and finding / making bushings for all the suspension joints. One issue I don't know how to tackle is a strange howling noise I get at higher throttle settings in 3rd gear. It only goes away after backing off to a near stop. Thx for the helps so far everyone! Kelly
	0

10-18-2014, 11:48 AM	#7
FLASHLIGHTBOY Join Date: May 2009 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,161	noise usually the noise in 3rd gear is a rough bearing in the trans... this is what I have found out.... not much you can do except to live with it... or tear it down.. I have people try different oils and add some STP or LUCAS OIL.. helped a little but not fully.. keep us tuned n as to what you find __________________ DEALER FOR ZSTAR & GIO PRODUCTS, TAOTAO ABIBABA ATV ETC
	0

10-20-2014, 02:46 PM	#8
Kelly W Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Delta, BC (near Vancouver) Posts: 8	Thanks guys, On the old howling 110, I'll see if i can get a video next time I'm at the cabin. It's definitely coming from the gearbox area, and seems to happen once the motor's come up to temp. One at running temp, the howling seems pretty repeatable and the power level needed to start the howling seems to be getting lower and lower. It sounds a lot like a bearing spinning in a bore, or a shaft spinning inside a bearing race. Some have said this could be a manufacturing tolerance issue in the gear train. I'm a mechanical engineer, so stuff like this tends to bug the crap out of me without knowing a root cause... For all I know, the older 110 may still need a proper break in procedure too. There are signs of decay, but mainly from elements and being left outside. There are very few signs of actual wear. The tire lugs are till pretty sharp. Funny, the body is 2-tone, but use to be all blue. For quite a while the front end was removed and the remainder faded in the sun... I'm going to sand blast the entire body and try to bring it back to life a bit over the winter. I'll get a video of the sound, and maybe start a thread about diagnosing the problem. In the mean time, if you guys or anyone else have a photo or two of a 110 semi auto engine with the transmission internals exposed, I'd love to see what I'm getting myself into. Kelly
	0

10-20-2014, 03:22 PM	#9
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	As a point of trivia, a semi-auto 50, 70, 90, 110 or 125 would be quite similar (if not identical) in the transmission. The only difference is likely in bore and stroke. That may help in your search for pics and vids. So cool to have a Mechanical Engineer on board! __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

10-20-2014, 05:52 PM	#10
Kelly W Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Delta, BC (near Vancouver) Posts: 8	Funny, most of my friends think I'm crazy to get 2 Chinese quads. The more I look at them, its like an adults version of a box of Lego! On these engines, are the gearbox ratios identical - leaving the overall gearing for each engine size in the hands of the sprocket and rear drive shaft gear set? I've tried a bunch of google image searches without much luck. When I crack this one open, I'll post a hundred photos for the next guy to look through! Hopefully the sound is a easy one to diagnose. That'll be a while though. lots of more important gremlins to kill 1st. Kelly
	0

10-20-2014, 11:26 PM	#11
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	These are decent videos: __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

10-22-2014, 12:41 PM	#12
Kelly W Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Delta, BC (near Vancouver) Posts: 8	Thanks Weld, didn't know you had to get so far into the engine before gaining access to the shaft assemblies in the tranny. That's a good intro to the project that lies ahead... I've heard on another forum that the noise can be a tolerance issue on one of the gears. If the issue happens in 3rd I suspect it could be the interaction between the 1st gear on its shaft when decoupled and free spinning. It could be hitting a resonance. 1st up I'll ride it some more, get a video with sound, and see if the magnet in my drain plug shows anything interesting... Kelly
	0

10-23-2014, 10:51 AM	#13
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Looking forward to hearing more about it. If you decide to split the case, please take pics. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0