Maintenance intervals: Break in Oil changes & Chain lube

[woodlandsprite]

So, it seems folks are doing the initial oil change anywhere between 200-500 miles - is that about right? The owners manual calls for doing it at 500 mi - but based on what I can tell, folks are doing an earlier one then the 500 mi one (and switching over to synthetic at 500 mi)

Is there a reason behind this? Also, what is considered standard practice for storing "used" oil for disposal?

Chain lube is also recommended every 500 miles - is there a way to *tell* when a chain needs lubing?

[AZRider]

I changed mine at 200 miles and will change again at 1,000 miles, at which point I'll switch to synthetic and check the valves.

I store my used oil in the container that the new oil came from, then take it down to my local Autozone for recycling. Since I have 3 bikes, I always have a container or two available. If you are buying an oil change pan, get one with a cap, then you don't have to bother to transfer it to another container. Most pans of this type will hold oil from 3 or 4 oil changes.

Chain lubing depends on conditions. If you ride in dusty or wet conditions, you'll apply chain lube more frequently. I usually do a finger wipe and if lube doesn't transfer, it's time for more. The rollers are sealed with O-rings, so all you're really doing is keeping the links clean, since you can't force lube into the chain rollers. If you're adverse to getting too dirty, check into Scottoilers, they'll automatically do the job for you.

[Weldangrind]

Originally Posted by woodlandsprite

So, it seems folks are doing the initial oil change anywhere between 200-500 miles - is that about right? The owners manual calls for doing it at 500 mi - but based on what I can tell, folks are doing an earlier one then the 500 mi one (and switching over to synthetic at 500 mi)

I have certainly broken in engines on synthetic with good results, but I have since given up on synthetic oils. Instead, I use a good quality 15W40 conventional oil and change it every 10 hours or so.

[SpudRider]

I ran the bike about 200 miles with the motor oil installed by the factory. I felt a little guilty when I changed that oil, since it was so clean. I replaced the factory oil with Mobil, Delvac, 15W/40 motor oil, and rode the bike until the odometer reached 900 miles before I changed the oil again. I will ride the bike until 2,000 miles, before I change the oil the third time. Thereafter I will change the oil every 2,000 miles.

I always use 15W/40 motor oil in all my motorcycles, with excellent success.

[jimjr21]

Changed at 175 as it was a good day to do it. Raining and a weekend of riding planned thereafter.
Changed to 10w40 Synthetic Yamalube.
Factory oil was very clean.

I store in multiple 55 gallon drums. When 3-4 get filled I call the used oil guy to come pick it up and pay me.

[woodlandsprite]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

I always use 15W/40 motor oil in all my motorcycles, with excellent success.

So here's another dumb question - is there a difference between general motor oil, automotive oil and motorcycle oil?? Google tells me no....but I figured I'd ask others just in case :P

[jimjr21]

Originally Posted by woodlandsprite

So here's another dumb question - is there a difference between general motor oil, automotive oil and motorcycle oil?? Google tells me no....but I figured I'd ask others just in case :P

There is a difference in the additive package. The problem lies in the wet clutches on motorcycles. The anti-friction additives in automotive oils can cause issues with the clutches. The diesel oil formulas don't have as much (or any) and don't cause issues.

If you have a few hours to learn more about oil than you ever thought existed spend some time at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

If you want to really find out what is going on with your oil try
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

[woodlandsprite]

Well then, glad I asked.

[Weldangrind]

As Spud often says, quality 15W40 diesel oil is ideal, as long as it has CJ-4 certification. I'd use Delvac or Rotella without any concerns.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by woodlandsprite

So here's another dumb question - is there a difference between general motor oil, automotive oil and motorcycle oil?? Google tells me no....but I figured I'd ask others just in case :P

If you want to learn more about motor oil, I highly recommend the two essays at the following links. Both links are included in the Zongshen RX3 Sticky thread, permanently pinned to the top of this forum.

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Consumables.html

[oldqwerty]

My knowledge of lubricants comes from a who spent 8 years getting educated and 40 years working in a major oil companies research and development lab.

Let me sum it up:

Yes, there are differences. Some no big deal. Some critical. The wrong oil can wipe out your clutch. The wrong oil can wipe out your cam and followers. The wrong oil cam wipe out your valves and adjusting screws. What engine parts are you willing to risk to save a few bucks on an oil change?

Many diesel and auto oils lack sufficient ZDDP to protect the high pressure points in modern 10,000rpm motorcycle engines. Many older trucks with flat tappets are wiping out their cam lobes and lifters due this lack of ZDDP. Special oils are made for older vehicles (classic and antique cars) because oils for modern engines simply don't cut the mustard.

Many diesel and auto oils have additives to increase fuel efficiency by making the oil more slippery. Wet clutches become more slippery, and slip, get hot, and toast themselves.

What it all boils down to is knowing which oils work well and which don't. Some Delvacs and Rotellas are okay, some aren't. Which is which? Hell if I know. Government regulations and engine builders looking for a marketing or cost advantage change oil specifications as often as most people change underwear. It's impossible to keep up, so I quit trying.

So, which oil should you use? Anything with a motorcycle picture on the front and the words "Safe For Use With Wet Clutches" or similar will work. Oh, and look for "10W-40" on the label somewhere. I might consider "5W-30" when riding in really cold weather, or "20W-50" when heading out into the desert when the highs are going to be at or near 100*F. The exception would be V-Twin oils, almost all of which are 20W-50, and a few are not safe for wet clutches, since Harleys are not single sump.

As far as dino vs. synthetic base, well, depends on the synthetic. Most consumer synthetics these days are not synthetic at all, but common dino bases with the sulfur removed. This legal mumbo jumbo over what constitutes a synthetic oil (thanks Shell, you pricks) confuses the discussion to no end. As far as I'm concerned, if it isn't an ester based synthetic, it is dino oil. Maybe a high quality dino oil, but still a dino oil that lacks the engineering finesse and molecular consistency to be tuned for specific requirements, instead relying on significant portions of additives that wear out long before the base oils they are added to, rendering the product unable to protect your engine much quicker than most people think.

As for me, I'll continue to run true ester based synthetics selected especially for each engine's specific requirements and change at intervals double what the manufacturer recommends. I'm still well stocked with Mobil 1 Racing 4T and V-Twin early formulations so that is what will go in the Cyclone when the time comes. Until the time comes, I'll be using Valvoline 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil in 10W-40 for break in. If you don't know any better, I'd stick with the Valvoline 4-Stroke. It's cheap, available at most auto parts stores and Walmart, and protects well.

[AZRider]

You can't go wrong if you choose an oil with the rating JASO-MA. It's specifically designed for motorcycles with wet clutches, like our RX-3. The latest iteration is JASO-MA2 and you'll find that on motorcycle specific brands, but you'll be OK using Rotella car oil that has the JASO rating.

[SpudRider]

I use Mobil, Delvac 15W/40 in my Zongshen ZS200GY-2, and it now has over 69,000 miles on the odometer. Therefore, I am not inclined to switch. In fact, I use the same motor oil in all my motorcycles, including my Honda CRF250X, which will rev to 12,000 rpms. The camshaft, rockers, et cetera, are in excellent condition. However, people can choose any quality motor oil of the appropriate weight which is safe for wet clutches in the RX3 engine. The most important thing is to change the engine oil frequently.

[oldqwerty]

Originally Posted by AZRider

You can't go wrong if you choose an oil with the rating JASO-MA. It's specifically designed for motorcycles with wet clutches, like our RX-3. The latest iteration is JASO-MA2 and you'll find that on motorcycle specific brands, but you'll be OK using Rotella car oil that has the JASO rating.

Rotella is not car oil. Any oil for modern cars will quickly waste your cam and followers and trash your clutch. Rotella is commercial truck oil. Think Freightliner and Kenworth and Smokey and the Bandit. Rotella is about the best dino oil on the market for commercial trucks (works great in smaller diesel trucks, too!). When it comes to commercial motor oils, Rotella is a darn good 10. Yup, 10 different Rotella engine oils are available. Better get the right one because the wrong choice can and will put your motorcycle at high risk of failure.

Spudrider, total miles don't mean much after how many rebuilds? Really, get 50k+ out of an original top end, with nothing but routine maintenance, only to allow someone who should know better borrow the bike and run it down the highway for three days until it locked up from the oil pumping out. Poor Tdub. I know of three other TWs that went over 50k on their original parts, nothing changed except carb jets and spark plugs. All three did break in with Valvoline, long lives with Mobil 1, Royal Purple, or Amsoil (all ester based synthetics). Two are still going since there owners know how to say "NO!" One got XT225 engine internal and trans when the original started that darned base gasket leak at 62K.

I've rebuilt a couple dozen small Yamahas at 35-45k that were treated to the correct Rotellas and or Delos, and suffered loose valve guides, trashed cam races in the head, and significant ring groove in the cylinder, but not much evidence of excessive wear on the cam lobes, followers, valve stem ends, or adjusting screws. As far as dino oils go, the correct Rotellas and Delos are just as good as the name brand motorcycle specific dinos, and far exceed the off brands. But they are not synthetics and suffer the same shearing of their additives in the transmission and associated degradation of protection as any other dino oil.

Walmart has Valvoline 4-Stroke in quarts for about the same price per volume as Rotella T3 in gallons. I checked today stocking up for my Cyclone's break in.

[AZRider]

Originally Posted by oldqwerty

Rotella is not car oil................... Better get the right one because the wrong choice can and will put your motorcycle at high risk of failure.

That's why I was very specific in stating that you get the Rotella with the JASO rating.