2022 1/2 Templar X - Page 2

tknj99 · 08-31-2022, 04:53 PM

I'm guessing the 14/39 may cut the torque too much.. i know that there is diminishing returns in some cases where gearing down too much and the bike has trouble maintaining speed at the top end. I'll have to see how the 13/42 does and then maybe go 14/42 like i have in the Titan now..

Thumper · 09-01-2022, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tknj99

I'm guessing the 14/39 may cut the torque too much.. i know that there is diminishing returns in some cases where gearing down too much and the bike has trouble maintaining speed at the top end. I'll have to see how the 13/42 does and then maybe go 14/42 like i have in the Titan now..

I am thinking about moving the 39T sprocket from the 2022 Temp X to the 2022 1/2 Temp X to pair it with the original 13T front sprocket. 6th gear might extend that top end further.

Actually, I can just swap the entire wheels. They are identical!

But before I put the wheel back on the 2022, I should drop some off of those 49 teeth... Maybe try 42, as you have, or keep it more geared down. Or something in between like 44. The 2022 doesn't have the counterbalancing, but you don't notice that much off road. The 2022 1/2 will probably have better road manners with that smoother engine, and 6th gear.

IdahoRider · 09-01-2022, 04:08 PM

I have been going back and forth on whether to get this or the KPX 250. I plan on putting a smaller rear cog on and maybe a more dual sport oriented tire. I like the weight, adjustment options and the build quality you've mentioned, not to mention the big price difference. The only thing I'm not sure about is the carb. I live at 2500 ft elevation and plan on riding at higher elevations. Will I be happy with the carb as is or should I plan on rejetting or upgrading it?

**JerryHawk250** · 09-01-2022, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoRider

I have been going back and forth on whether to get this or the KPX 250. I plan on putting a smaller rear cog on and maybe a more dual sport oriented tire. I like the weight, adjustment options and the build quality you've mentioned, not to mention the big price difference. The only thing I'm not sure about is the carb. I live at 2500 ft elevation and plan on riding at higher elevations. Will I be happy with the carb as is or should I plan on rejetting or upgrading it?

How much elevation change are you talking about? That could make a difference on your choice. EFI will automatically tune itself for the elevation change. If we are only talking a few hundred feet difference it shouldn't matter. 1500 or more feet in elevation change will make a difference on carb jetting.

TominMO · 09-01-2022, 04:25 PM

Given your elevation needs, IMO get an EFI bike, period. Plus the KPX already has dual sport tires, and you may find the gearing right without any changes. EFI is reliable, low to no-maintenance and very adaptable.

Here's some discussion of rejetting for altitude, both for and against. https://www.klrforum.com/threads/car...ltitude.54394/

J4Fun · 09-01-2022, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoRider

I have been going back and forth on whether to get this or the KPX 250. I plan on putting a smaller rear cog on and maybe a more dual sport oriented tire. I like the weight, adjustment options and the build quality you've mentioned, not to mention the big price difference. The only thing I'm not sure about is the carb. I live at 2500 ft elevation and plan on riding at higher elevations. Will I be happy with the carb as is or should I plan on rejetting or upgrading it?

You answered your on question, planing on riding at higher elevations! KPX is the best choice for you! That is IMHO! Just knowing the elevation in the West can change dramatically. Just my thoughts…

TominMO · 09-01-2022, 04:56 PM

Gonna slightly revise my opinion. It depends on how much elevation change you will be doing, and how often. If you're just going to do trips like this only rarely and you really prefer the Templar, then get the Templar. But if you will be significantly changing altitude fairly often, get the KPX.

IdahoRider · 09-01-2022, 09:08 PM

Thanks for the feedback. I could potentially be riding up to 7000ft to 8000ft in elevation during a one day ride from home and even higher if I do some road trips I have in mind. I'm mostly having a hard time justifying the $1100 price difference when the primary difference is EFI. EFI aside, I like most of the Templar features better.

Thumper · 09-01-2022, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoRider

I have been going back and forth on whether to get this or the KPX 250. I plan on putting a smaller rear cog on and maybe a more dual sport oriented tire. I like the weight, adjustment options and the build quality you've mentioned, not to mention the big price difference. The only thing I'm not sure about is the carb. I live at 2500 ft elevation and plan on riding at higher elevations. Will I be happy with the carb as is or should I plan on rejetting or upgrading it?

Jet for your altitude, and for the average elevation you ride. We are not racers! If you climb elevation, it will run rich. No biggie. These engines are happy to run a little rich.

Now adding an oil cooler, that might be a good idea for slow trail climbs!

Thumper · 09-02-2022, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper

I pulled the carb and there are just TWO break-off bolts holding the float bowl in place.

EDIT- The M4-0.7 allen bolts are perfect (16mm length). There is still threadlocker in there, so they will stay put

The main and pilot jets seen in the carb are Keihin style jets.
Name: loctite.JPG
Views: 1024
Size: 152.2 KB

Name: loctite.JPG
Views: 1024
Size: 152.2 KB

I just got a pack of these jets. Perfect and less than $8 on ebay
*item 334527584998, Description:
"Carburetor Main Jet 10pcs/Set Slow/Pilot Jet Kit For PZ30"
Vendor is shmoto. They arrived in TWO days.

Original 120 main, 40 pilot
installed 125 main, 42 pilot (45 was too rich, didn't need choke in cold weather!)
Name: KeihinJets-TemplarXjpg.jpg
Views: 1040
Size: 246.9 KB

Name: KeihinJets-TemplarXjpg.jpg
Views: 1040
Size: 246.9 KB

J4Fun · 09-02-2022, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoRider

Thanks for the feedback. I could potentially be riding up to 7000ft to 8000ft in elevation during a one day ride from home and even higher if I do some road trips I have in mind. I'm mostly having a hard time justifying the $1100 price difference when the primary difference is EFI. EFI aside, I like most of the Templar features better.

This is why, the KPX, may be the better choice. From where you live at 2500’ to those altitudes are a major change. It is not uncommon for changes like that out West. That will justify the price difference, trust me, I’m from the West, but now live in sea level FL. Again just my thoughts…

Thumper · 09-02-2022, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoRider

Thanks for the feedback. I could potentially be riding up to 7000ft to 8000ft in elevation during a one day ride from home and even higher if I do some road trips I have in mind. I'm mostly having a hard time justifying the $1100 price difference when the primary difference is EFI. EFI aside, I like most of the Templar features better.

My place in New Mexico is at 7500ft, and it is a valley. Town nearby I used to live in is about 6800. I used to jet a bit lean, and when I road into the mountains, it ran a bit more rich (perfect), and I never had any problems (8500-9500ft, even higher). Back in town, I needed to choke to start.
All of this scary talk about elevation changes is a bit overblown.

TominMO · 09-02-2022, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper

My place in New Mexico is at 7500ft, and it it a valley. Town nearby I used to live in is about 6500. I used to jet a bit lean, and when I road into the mountains, never had any problems (8500-9500ft, even higher). All of this scary talk about elevation changes is a bit overblown.

I remember reading in an aftermarket carb manual for cars that there is jetting for 0 - 5000 feet, and jetting for above 5000 feet. So I am inclined to agree. But maybe it is a bit more critical for us to get it better dialed in, since we are dealing with such low HP numbers here.

Thumper · 10-14-2022, 09:40 AM

I thought I had melted my ground wire so I replaced my wiring harness. It turns out it was a faulty starter (which I fixed), but while I was at it, I got a new set of led sequential turn signals. I just tried the in the back. Maybe I will save the other two for now. Just under $20 from amazon. Sweet!

I also replaced the battery with an 80 CCA bigger battery. It barely fit, but much more power!

Name: NewBatt.JPG
Views: 570
Size: 157.7 KB

Name: NewBatt.JPG
Views: 570
Size: 157.7 KB

Texas Pete · 11-15-2022, 09:16 AM

Adding on to Thumper's excellent post.

I have ordered all the tools to grind off the blind break off bolts.

Of course waiting for the my wife to get back with the car so I can go get some replacement M4-.7x16mm socket head bolts to put in after they are out I decided to give it a go with my old fashioned way to pass the time.

What a success that was!

I used my hacksaw and cut a slot deep into the first break off bolt. Using thumb and finger to align the blade and just kept draging it non cutting across the top until I had the smallest of purchases, then a tiny push forward and it slowly opened a the beginning of the slot. I then cut down deep.

I had a kit of screw ends, typical phillips, torx and flat head for some tool but never used them. They gave me three different sizes of flats.

Without the tool I just grabbed a small adjustable wrench and sized it to fit the hex shank. I then inserte the smallest into the slot as the others wouldn't fit all the way down.

Pushing the bit down with my thumb and weight I very slowly turned the adjustable wrench. I felt the bolt melt smooshing ever so slightly and as I kept the pressure on and watching I saw movement. I kept moving it slowly and the pressure slowly smooshed the metal more.

Once the metal was opened slightly I moved up to the next sized flat blade bit and continued. I ended up going through all three sizes and finally the bolt was out! -- happy dance!

Name: FirstBlindNutPerfectAlignedHacksawCut.jpg
Views: 440
Size: 153.7 KB

Now for the second.

Repeating the hacksaw start on this one but it slipped. I repositioned and tried again. Slip. Slowed down and tried again and got a bite. When I removed the hacksaw to inspect the beginning of the slot. Dismay! -- I cut it offset from center ever so slightly. I just made my job that much harder.

I cut the slot down deep and then repeated the process of smallest flat blade and going up as the metal smooshed. The bolt did not move on the smallest blade, only smooshed. Oh no!

I moved up to the second blade and it started smooshing and I thought I was finished and had to wait until the tools arrive on Saturday to grind it off. But it suddenly moved a millimeter. I could tell from the force needed this wasn't going to end well.

But I managed to get it to move 90 degrees before it accelerated on the smooshing and stopping on the moving the bolt. I took this time to cut a second hacksaw slot in ala Phillips style. It was worth a gamble. At the rate of smooshing and little movement I was at failure point with the first slot.

I took a small lightweight hammer and tapped a regular sized flat blade screwdriver into the first slot to open up the center of the slot to allow a bigger blade.

I then worked the new slot with the smallest flat blade bit and worked up. More smooshing, more work than the first bolt due to off center slot but I got it to move a little more out.

The rest was lightweight hammer and regular sized flat blade to open the center on the second slot then very slow turn with pressure down and as it smooshed switch slots and tap down and repeat, as that smooshed switch slots and tap down to open up.

Finally I have success!

Photos to see the bolt that gave the grief. Now I am off to the hardware store for new replacement bolts.

Name: SecondBlindNutHacksawCutOffAlignment01.jpg
Views: 431
Size: 139.9 KB

and detail of the top of the bolt after smooshings after both cuts

Name: SecondBlindNutHacksawCutOffAlignment02.jpg
Views: 419
Size: 131.3 KB

08-31-2022, 04:53 PM	#16
tknj99 Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Central VA Posts: 1,244	I'm guessing the 14/39 may cut the torque too much.. i know that there is diminishing returns in some cases where gearing down too much and the bike has trouble maintaining speed at the top end. I'll have to see how the 13/42 does and then maybe go 14/42 like i have in the Titan now.. __________________ 2024 Zuma Storm 150 DLX 2019 Beta 430 RRS 2017 Honda Fury Former China Bikes: Tao DBX1, Brozz 250, CSC RX4, Titan DLX, Templar X
	0

09-01-2022, 04:25 PM	#20
TominMO Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: De Soto, MO Posts: 1,843	Given your elevation needs, IMO get an EFI bike, period. Plus the KPX already has dual sport tires, and you may find the gearing right without any changes. EFI is reliable, low to no-maintenance and very adaptable. Here's some discussion of rejetting for altitude, both for and against. https://www.klrforum.com/threads/car...ltitude.54394/ __________________ 2021 Lifan Xpect--sold 2022 Lifan KPX 1972 Honda CT90--The Carrot 1969 Honda CT90--The Tomahto Cheesy is the WDK (workplace drama king). Now retired. Nope, back in the saddle. Climate: The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A24fWmNA6lM How our government really works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjadCd0VRBw Question all authority.....think for yourself
	0

09-01-2022, 04:56 PM	#22
TominMO Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: De Soto, MO Posts: 1,843	Gonna slightly revise my opinion. It depends on how much elevation change you will be doing, and how often. If you're just going to do trips like this only rarely and you really prefer the Templar, then get the Templar. But if you will be significantly changing altitude fairly often, get the KPX. __________________ 2021 Lifan Xpect--sold 2022 Lifan KPX 1972 Honda CT90--The Carrot 1969 Honda CT90--The Tomahto Cheesy is the WDK (workplace drama king). Now retired. Nope, back in the saddle. Climate: The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A24fWmNA6lM How our government really works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjadCd0VRBw Question all authority.....think for yourself
	2

11-15-2022, 09:16 AM	#30
Texas Pete Join Date: Nov 2022 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 575	Adding on to Thumper's excellent post. I have ordered all the tools to grind off the blind break off bolts. Of course waiting for the my wife to get back with the car so I can go get some replacement M4-.7x16mm socket head bolts to put in after they are out I decided to give it a go with my old fashioned way to pass the time. What a success that was! I used my hacksaw and cut a slot deep into the first break off bolt. Using thumb and finger to align the blade and just kept draging it non cutting across the top until I had the smallest of purchases, then a tiny push forward and it slowly opened a the beginning of the slot. I then cut down deep. I had a kit of screw ends, typical phillips, torx and flat head for some tool but never used them. They gave me three different sizes of flats. Without the tool I just grabbed a small adjustable wrench and sized it to fit the hex shank. I then inserte the smallest into the slot as the others wouldn't fit all the way down. Pushing the bit down with my thumb and weight I very slowly turned the adjustable wrench. I felt the bolt melt smooshing ever so slightly and as I kept the pressure on and watching I saw movement. I kept moving it slowly and the pressure slowly smooshed the metal more. Once the metal was opened slightly I moved up to the next sized flat blade bit and continued. I ended up going through all three sizes and finally the bolt was out! -- happy dance! Now for the second. Repeating the hacksaw start on this one but it slipped. I repositioned and tried again. Slip. Slowed down and tried again and got a bite. When I removed the hacksaw to inspect the beginning of the slot. Dismay! -- I cut it offset from center ever so slightly. I just made my job that much harder. I cut the slot down deep and then repeated the process of smallest flat blade and going up as the metal smooshed. The bolt did not move on the smallest blade, only smooshed. Oh no! I moved up to the second blade and it started smooshing and I thought I was finished and had to wait until the tools arrive on Saturday to grind it off. But it suddenly moved a millimeter. I could tell from the force needed this wasn't going to end well. But I managed to get it to move 90 degrees before it accelerated on the smooshing and stopping on the moving the bolt. I took this time to cut a second hacksaw slot in ala Phillips style. It was worth a gamble. At the rate of smooshing and little movement I was at failure point with the first slot. I took a small lightweight hammer and tapped a regular sized flat blade screwdriver into the first slot to open up the center of the slot to allow a bigger blade. I then worked the new slot with the smallest flat blade bit and worked up. More smooshing, more work than the first bolt due to off center slot but I got it to move a little more out. The rest was lightweight hammer and regular sized flat blade to open the center on the second slot then very slow turn with pressure down and as it smooshed switch slots and tap down and repeat, as that smooshed switch slots and tap down to open up. Finally I have success! Photos to see the bolt that gave the grief. Now I am off to the hardware store for new replacement bolts. and detail of the top of the bolt after smooshings after both cuts
	1

09-01-2022, 04:08 PM	#18
IdahoRider Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 172	I have been going back and forth on whether to get this or the KPX 250. I plan on putting a smaller rear cog on and maybe a more dual sport oriented tire. I like the weight, adjustment options and the build quality you've mentioned, not to mention the big price difference. The only thing I'm not sure about is the carb. I live at 2500 ft elevation and plan on riding at higher elevations. Will I be happy with the carb as is or should I plan on rejetting or upgrading it?
	0

09-01-2022, 09:08 PM	#23
IdahoRider Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 172	Thanks for the feedback. I could potentially be riding up to 7000ft to 8000ft in elevation during a one day ride from home and even higher if I do some road trips I have in mind. I'm mostly having a hard time justifying the $1100 price difference when the primary difference is EFI. EFI aside, I like most of the Templar features better.
	0

10-14-2022, 09:40 AM	#29
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,196	I thought I had melted my ground wire so I replaced my wiring harness. It turns out it was a faulty starter (which I fixed), but while I was at it, I got a new set of led sequential turn signals. I just tried the in the back. Maybe I will save the other two for now. Just under $20 from amazon. Sweet! I also replaced the battery with an 80 CCA bigger battery. It barely fit, but much more power!
	1