Rx3s - Page 2

MalcolmReynolds · 04-21-2018, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyoungbl

Malcom, a high spinning twin is certainly delightful while you are on it in the upper part of the power band. I loved the Ninja 400 for that. If you want to plunk along on a fire trail at much slower speed the torque of a thumper is much more desirable. The RX3 benefits from being a thumper even though the maximum torque is absent until about 4K. You can still thump along at walking speed in 1st gear. I have done exactly that. Somewhere in this mix of offering you will find the combination that fits your needs. Ain't it great to have so many choices!

Peter Y.

That challenge is finding that balance between what makes a decent road bike and what makes a decent fire roads and off road bike. If you can get that torque off of the bottom of the rpm spectrum then you are golden. Like you said the twins "typically" don't produce the power until you have them spun up some so that compromises the off road walk along speed. Maybe the RX4 will bring that blend of road power but chug along ability?

Goshawk · 04-22-2018, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmReynolds

That challenge is finding that balance between what makes a decent road bike and what makes a decent fire roads and off road bike. If you can get that torque off of the bottom of the rpm spectrum then you are golden. Like you said the twins "typically" don't produce the power until you have them spun up some so that compromises the off road walk along speed. Maybe the RX4 will bring that blend of road power but chug along ability?

I suspect we will see the Versys400X before we see the RX4, more's the pity. My hope was that the RX4 was imminent, but that seems unlikely. I agree about low down torque being better for "Plonking" through technical stuff, but I could live with the 400cc Versys on fire roads and jeep trails, especially if Kawasaki alter the gearing on the Versys 400X as they did with the 300cc version. My wish would be for a six speed box with an ultra low first and an overdrive sixth, which would give me the best of both worlds.
I did try a TL200 for the more knarly single track stuff but unless I stood on the pegs all day my ancient hips could not tolerate being so scrunched up for more than a few minutes. I also had a Honda NX250 for a few years and really liked many aspects of it , but it was not a highway bike and quickly became tiring at highway speeds. It would go, virtually vibration free, all day at these revs but I couldn't. My foot kept reaching for another gear to calm the revs down a little. In the end it became too valuable (it was pristine) to drop and so was not ridden very much. The search goes on.

MalcolmReynolds · 04-22-2018, 02:48 PM

As soon as they announce the 400 Versys then the entire market may finally take notice that this is the sweet spot. If the RX4 can beat Kawasaki to the punch that could make some serious waves and help these bikes gain more traction.

MalcolmReynolds · 04-22-2018, 05:29 PM

Here is a video of the RX4 and the exhaust routing and the radiator plumbing all seem like an after thought. The exhaust is very exposed.

pyoungbl · 04-22-2018, 07:47 PM

Malcolm, I noticed that the RX4 has a radial brake caliper and an improved radiator fill. The cooling looked reasonable and more accessible than the RX3. As for the exhaust, having it low keeps it from burning your clothing (that has already happened to me) but does expose it to rock damage. I'm OK with that routing. Since the RX4 is still 'under development' it's too early to cast judgement. I'm very interested in this product and when CSC brings it to the US I think it will be a real hit.

Peter Y.

Goshawk · 04-25-2018, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyoungbl

Malcolm, I noticed that the RX4 has a radial brake caliper and an improved radiator fill. The cooling looked reasonable and more accessible than the RX3. As for the exhaust, having it low keeps it from burning your clothing (that has already happened to me) but does expose it to rock damage. I'm OK with that routing. Since the RX4 is still 'under development' it's too early to cast judgement. I'm very interested in this product and when CSC brings it to the US I think it will be a real hit.

Peter Y.

Timing and price will decide its success. If Kawasaki bring in a Versys 400cc, later this year, at the 300cc price, as they did with the 400cc Ninja, CSC will be between a rock and a hard place. If the RX4 is priced too close to the Versys, people will go for the Versys for all sorts of reasons, namely: re-sale value, dealership availability, a well known "big three" manufacturer, warranty etc. The CSC business model works as long as the price difference is great enough to attract buyers who want a bargain. It appeals to those who can wield a wrench and have some idea about how the bike works. If the RX4 is priced similarly to the RX3 they could do well with it, but then who would buy the RX3?
Not my problem thankfully, but like Peter Y. I am very interested to see when, and at what price the RX4 emerges. Not holding my breath however.

MalcolmReynolds · 04-25-2018, 06:59 PM

Zongshen has to earn the reputation that the Japanese bikes did when they first entered the world market place. They were known for cheap stuff, but the quality wasn't there. Enough people saw value in affordable stuff that Japan sent to other markets and the quality improved. Thus their reputation improved with the quality of the product and eventually they could command better pricing for themselves.

Zongshen hasn't done that yet in the US market so they have to keep the price very attractive and continue to refine the product. The pricing on the RX3 has already jumped so much from the introduction price that it is getting to be a harder sell for the new bike. Any more price increases and I think other established competitors will take those sales.

So I agree I think CSC and Zongshen may be between a rock and a hard place here because these manufacturers aren't building in Japan, but in cost effective markets that can put pressure on pricing. The Versys X is a good example of pricing being held down by manufacture in Thailand. So this is going to be hard for Zongshen to have a huge cost advantage to get that traction needed.

It think it is clear that the race is on, timing and pricing may be the deciding factor if the Zongshen/CSC can gain ground on the established players. It is looking pretty tough. If the RX4 and RX3S were shipping this year it would be a huge momentum builder for them. But they slip into next year and it looks like they are facing a pretty strong head wind. I am hoping they can pull it off because we need more bikes and more choices. I love what the RX3 brings to the table for design and features but they really need that RX3S and RX4 to continue the momentum.

pyoungbl · 04-25-2018, 08:38 PM

The 2018 Versys 300X is a pretty interesting competitor to the RX3. MSRP (not including the shipping, setup, dealer prep, and other BS) is $5399 for non ABS, $5699 for ABS. Add in $429.95 for hard bags, $99.95 for top case, $214.95 for crash bars and you now have what the RX3 comes with. That's a total of about $6444. CSC is $4195 for the same thing. Don't forget that the Kawi dealer is going to add in his fluff so it's really much more than $1200 difference OTD.

rjmorel · 04-25-2018, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyoungbl

The 2018 Versys 300X is a pretty interesting competitor to the RX3. MSRP (not including the shipping, setup, dealer prep, and other BS) is $5399 for non ABS, $5699 for ABS. Add in $429.95 for hard bags, $99.95 for top case, $214.95 for crash bars and you now have what the RX3 comes with. That's a total of about $6444. CSC is $4195 for the same thing. Don't forget that the Kawi dealer is going to add in his fluff so it's really much more than $1200 difference OTD.

And the Kawi dealer isn't going to take you to Baja or other cool places on the planet for free either. Thats got to be worth another $3000-$4500. just saying rj

ben2go · 04-26-2018, 09:01 AM

I have a hard time comparing the two, RX3 and 300X. The Kawi is a twin and the CSC is a single.

Biker_Andy · 04-26-2018, 11:31 AM

RX3 25HP 385Lbs 250cc 84mph

RX3S 27HP 407Lbs 380cc 87mph

RX4 32HP 450Lbs 450cc 97mph

I really don't see why anyone would be drooling over an RX3S.

The RX4 exhaust is in the perfect position to protect the rear brake so I don't know why anyone is complaining about it lol.

Juanro · 04-26-2018, 11:37 AM

I think those figures for the RX3S and RX4 are KW, not HP.
They're more like 36HP and 43HP

Biker_Andy · 04-26-2018, 12:07 PM

Perhaps, but if that was the case wouldn't the RX3S also have a much higher top speed? I know the HP of the RX3S is pathetic for the engine size but it is also one of the first dual cylinder engines produced from China so it may just need a lot of refinement. If the numbers are correct then I totally understand why CSC has no interest of bringing it to North America.

Juanro · 04-26-2018, 12:43 PM

Most "top speed" indicated in the specs are... well... estimates.
Anyway; as this bike is too far in the future, all of this is no more than coffee table talk.

Biker_Andy · 04-26-2018, 01:04 PM

I don't think it's as far in the future as you think, both bikes prices have already been released. Plus the British expat who's not affiliated with Zongshen tested top speed then quoted specs. If the specs were wrong I think he would have pointed it out. I expect to see these bikes listed on Zongshens website in a few weeks. The RX3 was available in China for about two years before it ever seen American shores.

04-26-2018, 11:31 AM	#26
Biker_Andy Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 347	RX3 25HP 385Lbs 250cc 84mph RX3S 27HP 407Lbs 380cc 87mph RX4 32HP 450Lbs 450cc 97mph I really don't see why anyone would be drooling over an RX3S. The RX4 exhaust is in the perfect position to protect the rear brake so I don't know why anyone is complaining about it lol. Last edited by Biker_Andy; 04-26-2018 at 02:03 PM.
	0

04-22-2018, 02:48 PM	#18
MalcolmReynolds Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Colorado Posts: 29	As soon as they announce the 400 Versys then the entire market may finally take notice that this is the sweet spot. If the RX4 can beat Kawasaki to the punch that could make some serious waves and help these bikes gain more traction.
	1

04-22-2018, 05:29 PM	#19
MalcolmReynolds Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Colorado Posts: 29	Here is a video of the RX4 and the exhaust routing and the radiator plumbing all seem like an after thought. The exhaust is very exposed.
	1

04-22-2018, 07:47 PM	#20
pyoungbl Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA Posts: 632	Malcolm, I noticed that the RX4 has a radial brake caliper and an improved radiator fill. The cooling looked reasonable and more accessible than the RX3. As for the exhaust, having it low keeps it from burning your clothing (that has already happened to me) but does expose it to rock damage. I'm OK with that routing. Since the RX4 is still 'under development' it's too early to cast judgement. I'm very interested in this product and when CSC brings it to the US I think it will be a real hit. Peter Y.
	1

04-25-2018, 06:59 PM	#22
MalcolmReynolds Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Colorado Posts: 29	Zongshen has to earn the reputation that the Japanese bikes did when they first entered the world market place. They were known for cheap stuff, but the quality wasn't there. Enough people saw value in affordable stuff that Japan sent to other markets and the quality improved. Thus their reputation improved with the quality of the product and eventually they could command better pricing for themselves. Zongshen hasn't done that yet in the US market so they have to keep the price very attractive and continue to refine the product. The pricing on the RX3 has already jumped so much from the introduction price that it is getting to be a harder sell for the new bike. Any more price increases and I think other established competitors will take those sales. So I agree I think CSC and Zongshen may be between a rock and a hard place here because these manufacturers aren't building in Japan, but in cost effective markets that can put pressure on pricing. The Versys X is a good example of pricing being held down by manufacture in Thailand. So this is going to be hard for Zongshen to have a huge cost advantage to get that traction needed. It think it is clear that the race is on, timing and pricing may be the deciding factor if the Zongshen/CSC can gain ground on the established players. It is looking pretty tough. If the RX4 and RX3S were shipping this year it would be a huge momentum builder for them. But they slip into next year and it looks like they are facing a pretty strong head wind. I am hoping they can pull it off because we need more bikes and more choices. I love what the RX3 brings to the table for design and features but they really need that RX3S and RX4 to continue the momentum.
	0

04-25-2018, 08:38 PM	#23
pyoungbl Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA Posts: 632	The 2018 Versys 300X is a pretty interesting competitor to the RX3. MSRP (not including the shipping, setup, dealer prep, and other BS) is $5399 for non ABS, $5699 for ABS. Add in $429.95 for hard bags, $99.95 for top case, $214.95 for crash bars and you now have what the RX3 comes with. That's a total of about $6444. CSC is $4195 for the same thing. Don't forget that the Kawi dealer is going to add in his fluff so it's really much more than $1200 difference OTD.
	0

04-26-2018, 09:01 AM	#25
ben2go Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,335	I have a hard time comparing the two, RX3 and 300X. The Kawi is a twin and the CSC is a single.
	0

04-26-2018, 11:37 AM	#27
Juanro Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 321	I think those figures for the RX3S and RX4 are KW, not HP. They're more like 36HP and 43HP
	1

04-26-2018, 12:07 PM	#28
Biker_Andy Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 347	Perhaps, but if that was the case wouldn't the RX3S also have a much higher top speed? I know the HP of the RX3S is pathetic for the engine size but it is also one of the first dual cylinder engines produced from China so it may just need a lot of refinement. If the numbers are correct then I totally understand why CSC has no interest of bringing it to North America.
	0

04-26-2018, 12:43 PM	#29
Juanro Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 321	Most "top speed" indicated in the specs are... well... estimates. Anyway; as this bike is too far in the future, all of this is no more than coffee table talk.
	1

04-26-2018, 01:04 PM	#30
Biker_Andy Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 347	I don't think it's as far in the future as you think, both bikes prices have already been released. Plus the British expat who's not affiliated with Zongshen tested top speed then quoted specs. If the specs were wrong I think he would have pointed it out. I expect to see these bikes listed on Zongshens website in a few weeks. The RX3 was available in China for about two years before it ever seen American shores.
	0