Charging system testing- weak starter? just clicking? Is it the battery?

[Thumper]

Does your bike just "click" when you press the starter button? Or does the starter motor weakly turn the engine over and it fails to fire up?

Maybe you wonder if your charging system is not maintaining the battery? Do you need a voltage regulator? Do you need a new stator??

Here are a few things to test:

If this is a used bike you are trying to get running, check the valve clearance first.
Here are instructions to adjust valves. If you haven't adjusted the valves, then do this first ANYWAY. Covered elsewhere...The process is identical for any of these 4 stroke engines, but clearance on pushrod engines should be 0.003-0.005" exhaust, 0.002-0.003" intake:
https://www.chinariders.net/showpost...4&postcount=21

If the starter turns the engine rapidly, but it just isn't firing up, it could be spark or gas issue, but if it ran OK before and the starter just isn't cranking it strongly, you may have a weak charging system resulting in low battery charge, dead or bad battery, or you just need a charge.

If you don't already have one, BUY A MULTIMETER. You NEED one to test your battery, and to test your charging system.

If you can jump it and it turns rapidly and starts, GREAT. While it is running, USE THE MULTIMETER (set to DC voltage) to test the charging system: Connect the multimeter to the battery terminals-red to red (pos) and black to black (Neg/ground) and you should see MORE than 14 volts pushing onto the battery at ~1500-1700rpm.

If it started with a jump, and the charging system checks out, then charge the battery. A floating battery maintainer/charger costs about $35.

RESTING BATTERY TEST (key turned OFF): AFTER charging, what is the resting battery voltage? It should be at least close to 13V for a healthy battery. If it is less, disconnect the ground and test it again. Did the voltage go up? If so, your bike is constantly draining the battery (short somewhere? bad switch?).

A BAD battery (grounding out inside) can suck the voltage and prevent starting. It won't charge if this is the case, and will overheat your charger (charger should show the ground fault). This is actually pretty rare unless you bought a barn find or the bike hasn't been run, but left out and neglected for a year or two. If the valves are adjusted, and the bike has been running with a good spark plug and the charging system is good, even a WEAK BATTERY can usually start the bike. Batteries do eventually fail of course. If it can't charge to and hold a charge of ~12.5V overnight, replace it.

As mentioned above, if you can jump start the bike and it starts easily, then charge the battery and do the resting battery test above.

If the charging system is not pushing 14V or more into the battery at 1500-1700rpm, then your charging system is not up to snuff. It could be the rectifier/regulator, or it could be a weak stator. If the resting battery voltage test is the same with/without the negative ground connected but the charging system isn't pushing 14+ volts when running, then you will need to troubleshoot the charging system.

[tknj99]

Great info.. I recently diagnosed a failed starter on my Beta.. it would click once and then nothing. The battery would quickly drain in addition to the power wire from the starter solenoid getting hot. I initially thought it was the battery but found the starter as the culprit once I opened i removed and tried to turn the armature and it was grinding. After opening it up I found several magnets pulverized inside. Bought a knockoff ktm starter on Amazon, replaced the case and reused the original armature and front cover and voila started right up.
The other starting issue I've encountered was on my Honda Fury related to starting when hot it would crank a couple times and not start. The fix for that was a secondary ground for this known issue.

[Thumper]

My 6 speed Templar X starter had a short. It cranked weakly, even with a charged battery, or a jump. These symptoms made me wonder what was going on inside that new starter

I took it apart and found that the rotor windings armature was grazing a metal plate that the brushes mounted on. There was blackened evidence of the short on the plate and the tip of the armature...I used a dremel to shave both sides away from each other, cleaned and reassembled the starter with lube on both ends, and the thing worked perfectly.

[tknj99]

Originally Posted by Thumper

My 6 speed Templar X starter had a short. It cranked weakly, even with a charged battery, or a jump. These symptoms made me wonder what was going on inside that new starter

I took it apart and found that the rotor windings armature was grazing a metal plate that the brushes mounted on. There was blackened evidence of the short on the plate and the tip of the armature...I used a dremel to shave both sides away from each other, cleaned and reassembled the starter with lube on both ends, and the thing worked perfectly.

Interesting.. the guy that bought my Templar X last year messaged me recently asking for advice related to issues starting as well.. based on what he said i told him it sounded like the starter.. wondering if it'll wind up being a known issue on these Templar X's as its not sounding like a coincidence as starters usually last alot longer than a year or so

[Texas Pete]

Originally Posted by Thumper

If it started with a jump, and the charging system checks out, then charge the battery. A floating battery maintainer/charger costs about $35.

That’s just good advice even before encountering any battery issues. From day one I got the Harbor Freight VIKING 4Amp Fully Automatic Microprocessor-Controlled Battery Charger/Maintainer unit. It came with NMEA quick plugs that I could screw to the battery leaving the tail end in the hole in the side plastic under the seat. Easy to get to and pull out at the end of a ride.

At the end of every ride I plug it in and leave it on until next time I ride. It always shows an over-charge immediately following a ride and discharges the battery a small amount then charges it until at optimum long term holding charge holding it there until next ride.

This is how I have gotten flawless years of service from the stock OEM battery that came with the Templar X 250.

Because I now have to leave the bike at work away from the charger/maintainer for twelve hour shifts, I have since added battery operated nipple clamps (tiny lithium smart jump starter) to my arsenal and take it with me everywhere in the bottom of my backpack. I have never had to use it at all so far, knock on wood. But if I do I am fully prepared not to need a tow, or on the road service call. Boy scout motto always be prepared.

The rest of the post is also good information.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by tknj99

Interesting.. the guy that bought my Templar X last year messaged me recently asking for advice related to issues starting as well.. based on what he said i told him it sounded like the starter.. wondering if it'll wind up being a known issue on these Templar X's as its not sounding like a coincidence as starters usually last a lot longer than a year or so

I would say that the faulty starter in my Templar X was an engine supplier issue (Zongshen). Zuma (Wuyi Zuumav) doesn't make engines. They rely on engines provided by Zongshen for the Templars, and Zongshen probably provides them support for warranty issues. PSM actually sent me a new starter when I sent them evidence of the problem. I was impressed with the response. PSM has always tried to make things right. Find this starter in the free classified area- it was actually for a different engine. I guess I was lucky to figure out and fix the problem. Perfectly good starter with a minor and fixable manufacturing defect.

The charging system was still working great. Pushing the starter button, on the other hand, didn't activate the starter very well, and put a serious drain on the battery

[Zapkin]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I would say that the faulty starter in my Templar X was an engine supplier issue (Zongshen). Zuma (Wuyi Zuumav) doesn't make engines. They rely on engines provided by Zongshen for the Templars, and Zongshen probably provides them support for warranty issues. PSM actually sent me a new starter when I sent them evidence of the problem. I was impressed with the response. PSM has always tried to make things right. Find this starter in the free classified area- it was actually for a different engine. I guess I was lucky to figure out and fix the problem. Perfectly good starter with a minor and fixable manufacturing defect.

The charging system was still working great. Pushing the starter button, on the other hand, didn't activate the starter very well, and put a serious drain on the battery

PSM did me right too. I had a couple of issues and they actually sent me more than I actually asked for. My son-in-law just put a little X-pro 140cc on layaway for my grandkids. Can't wait to play around with that and see their smiles!