Moto Cult

[Bill Hilly]

Originally Posted by bigdano711

How many miles since you did the stage 3? Can you hit 70 mph with ease, now? Also, very interested in that "custom-made cable controlled choke". How you do that?

I am editing this, because I just looked on AliExpress, and they sell all the items that you should need to convert to a cable type" choke ". Just search cable choke.
I recently did a warming up of my motor, about 700 miles ago, and I was hoping to get a steel gasket with the 70mm kit( 250cc), but it came with one similar to the stock one. I still didn't use the rubber O Ring, because with the larger bore, the ORing was over lapping the steel ring part of the gasket. My motor has a completely different attitude now, and will hit top speed faster, and seems" happier " to run at higher rpm, more importantly to me, it holds the RPMs better at higher RPM, like on long hills. The kit I used evidently is supposed to raise compression a little, possibly because the piston has way smaller valve reliefs on it, but I know the all steel gasket would give me more, but I likely won't change to it unless this one gives me trouble. I really don't know how much power, not having the thinner gasket is costing me, but I had enough after doing the motor that it allowed me to go with higher gearing, and still have more road power than I had before. My Hawk now has the same amount of range that I utilize with my KPX. I have never had my Hawk on the interstate, but have had my KPX on the interstate once and for just a short stretch between the Fairplain/ Ripley exit, and the Ripley exit, which is all 70mph, but is hilly, and neither the KPX, or me cared for it one little bit. I noticed that a lot of the cheap carbs on AliExpress with the enrichment valve style of " choke" come with your choice of cable, or pull knob configuration, and many of these carbs are just about like the Nibbi. I figure that if it was worth the price of a cheap carb to you, then you could likely just pull your enrichment/ choke off your Nibbi, and switch it.

[superjocko]

Originally Posted by bigdano711

How many miles since you did the stage 3? Can you hit 70 mph with ease, now? Also, very interested in that "custom-made cable controlled choke". How you do that?

I've got a little over 300 miles since I installed the stage 3 kit. 70 mph on GPS is right about what it's capable of on level ground, or just a touch more. I wouldn't say it gets there "with ease" as it takes a bit from 60+ to gain additional speed. I also wouldn't want to cruise at 70 with my current gearing as it's fairly "buzzy" above 60. It would be better if I geared it up some by dropping a few teeth on the rear sprocket for that kind of riding. I won't be doing that anytime soon though, as the stock 17/50 gearing seems just about an ideal compromise for the combination of riding I intend to do with this bike. I don't intend to do much in the way of any freeway riding unless it's just a short section. I have ridden it on the freeway at 65-ish and it's buzzing pretty good at around 7k on the tach. It doesn't have any real trouble doing it and I climbed a fairly decent little grade on I-80 between Auburn and Applegate CA and was able to maintain 65, or just over. That was all it had though. There wasn't much in the way of any reserve power on that grade at highway speed.

I also noticed at the freeway exit stop sign that I had noticeably more clutch freeplay which is an indication the oil had gotten pretty warm. The clutch feel went right back to normal after just a couple miles of slower cruising on secondary roads. I've since installed an oil cooler to help with that.

I may even go a little lower on the gearing to improve the low-speed trail manners. Once we get some good trail riding conditions I'll see how it does. I've got a 16 tooth countershaft sprocket I can install if I feel it will be better for me. Once the stock chain and sprockets require replacement, I'll be switching to a 520 chain and select my gearing based on my impressions up to that point.

As for the cable choke mod, I wrote up a fairly detailed thread on it: https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=33946

Best of luck in your endeavors!

[superjocko]

Originally Posted by Bill Hilly

I am editing this, because I just looked on AliExpress, and they sell all the items that you should need to convert to a cable type" choke ". Just search cable choke.
I recently did a warming up of my motor, about 700 miles ago, and I was hoping to get a steel gasket with the 70mm kit( 250cc), but it came with one similar to the stock one. I still didn't use the rubber O Ring, because with the larger bore, the ORing was over lapping the steel ring part of the gasket. My motor has a completely different attitude now, and will hit top speed faster, and seems" happier " to run at higher rpm, more importantly to me, it holds the RPMs better at higher RPM, like on long hills. The kit I used evidently is supposed to raise compression a little, possibly because the piston has way smaller valve reliefs on it, but I know the all steel gasket would give me more, but I likely won't change to it unless this one gives me trouble. I really don't know how much power, not having the thinner gasket is costing me, but I had enough after doing the motor that it allowed me to go with higher gearing, and still have more road power than I had before. My Hawk now has the same amount of range that I utilize with my KPX. I have never had my Hawk on the interstate, but have had my KPX on the interstate once and for just a short stretch between the Fairplain/ Ripley exit, and the Ripley exit, which is all 70mph, but is hilly, and neither the KPX, or me cared for it one little bit. I noticed that a lot of the cheap carbs on AliExpress with the enrichment valve style of " choke" come with your choice of cable, or pull knob configuration, and many of these carbs are just about like the Nibbi. I figure that if it was worth the price of a cheap carb to you, then you could likely just pull your enrichment/ choke off your Nibbi, and switch it.

The choke kit I got had a plunger that did not work. I detailed my experience in the thread that I linked in my post above. Your experience may vary. Just a heads-up to anyone that wants to do this.

[bigdano711]

Thanks for "learning the hard way" and sharing your experience so we don't have to go thru it. Very decent of you, and we can do with some more decency right about now.


This is me trying to do the decent thing: GET THE HELL OUTTA CALIFORNIA WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!

[Megadan]

I think the power expectations need to be kept realistic. Even if a stage 3 cg250 makes 20 hp to the tire, it's still only 20hp.

[superjocko]

Originally Posted by Megadan

I think the power expectations need to be kept realistic. Even if a stage 3 cg250 makes 20 hp to the tire, it's still only 20hp.

For sure! The bulk of the improvement of the bike’s performance that I’ve experienced has been in the mid-range pull of the bike. It has a little more top speed, but not a lot. Where it really feels a lot better is accelerating out of corners and being able to maintain speed on a grade. And that’s without any noticeable loss of power right off the bottom end.

A person should definitely keep their expectations realistic. If you’re after more top end power, a different and more aggressive cam profile would be in order. Even then, it’s a pushrod 250 (or 229 if it’s still got the stock cylinder) with only two valves. it’s got its practical limits.

[superjocko]

Originally Posted by bigdano711

Thanks for "learning the hard way" and sharing your experience so we don't have to go thru it. Very decent of you, and we can do with some more decency right about now.


This is me trying to do the decent thing: GET THE HELL OUTTA CALIFORNIA WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!

Thank you! Realistically though, most of the stuff I’ve done has been based on stuff I’ve found already done on this site. A couple other things are just stuff that I took a little bit different direction on due to my own preferences.

As for getting out of CommieFornia, I’d already be gone if I didn’t have a job that I enjoy and that also has a great pension. Lucky for me, the area where I live is among the most conservative areas in the state. Northern California is a whole different animal than the far southern and coastal areas. It’s not anything near what it once was though.

[bigdano711]

I swear I read on MotoCult's site a while back that with the stage 3 kit the bike would get past the 7000 rpm range and closer to 10,000. It still says you get a 48% increase in power.


Oh well. I have noticed that it's snappier with the new pipe, even feels like it wants to wheelie, but still dogs out at the higher rpm's.

[Bill Hilly]

Originally Posted by bigdano711

I swear I read on MotoCult's site a while back that with the stage 3 kit the bike would get past the 7000 rpm range and closer to 10,000. It still says you get a 48% increase in power.


Oh well. I have noticed that it's snappier with the new pipe, even feels like it wants to wheelie, but still dogs out at the higher rpm's.

I have went the cheaper way, and did not buy from Motocult, but I have the long duration cam, timing advance key, and a home ported head, along with a 250cc jug, and piston (70mm). I also have the roller followers, and my definitely has more power at higher RPM than it did. I don't think 10,000 rpm would be possible, and if it were, it's power would have probably dropped off, but my bike will pull, and still be making good powered past 8,000. I don't like to run it past 8,000, but I have let it get a little past it a few times, in the lower gears , mainly by accident. Some say that it's not really stressing these motors to run such high RPM , but I don't like to. Warming up the CG motor has kinda fallen out of favor, because a lot are just switching to the OHC, 6 speed, but if I compare my Hawk to my KPX, there is no real difference in range if the bikes, and I am sure the Hawk will out accelerate the KPX, and both bikes run , and run unstressed , on the fast main roads. The only use my Hawk could possibly have for a 6th gear, would be in the case of wanting it to be able to crawl through harsh rocky terrain, and therefore using lower sprocket ratios.

[superjocko]

Originally Posted by Bill Hilly

I have went the cheaper way, and did not buy from Motocult, but I have the long duration cam, timing advance key, and a home ported head, along with a 250cc jug, and piston (70mm). I also have the roller followers, and my definitely has more power at higher RPM than it did. I don't think 10,000 rpm would be possible, and if it were, it's power would have probably dropped off, but my bike will pull, and still be making good powered past 8,000. I don't like to run it past 8,000, but I have let it get a little past it a few times, in the lower gears , mainly by accident. Some say that it's not really stressing these motors to run such high RPM , but I don't like to. Warming up the CG motor has kinda fallen out of favor, because a lot are just switching to the OHC, 6 speed, but if I compare my Hawk to my KPX, there is no real difference in range if the bikes, and I am sure the Hawk will out accelerate the KPX, and both bikes run , and run unstressed , on the fast main roads. The only use my Hawk could possibly have for a 6th gear, would be in the case of wanting it to be able to crawl through harsh rocky terrain, and therefore using lower sprocket ratios.

I'm right there with you. A six-speed would be nice, and I'd drop in a 6-speed mainshaft, countershaft, and shift drum if a set that fits was available, but I don't absolutely need a six-speed. If I had one, I'd also take advantage of being able to run lower final gearing to have a creeper-low 1st gear.

I don't have a ported head because I'm not convinced there would be all that much to gain from it unless it was combined with a higher lift cam. Even then, the kind of higher RPM power that would potentially help isn't what I'm after.

Simply going to a bigger bore will to some extent improve the flow of even a stock head by unshrouding the edges of the valves closest to the cylinder wall. Additionally, after having gone through several of the posts here on head porting and seeing what the stock ports look like in other engines, I'm convinced that the stock ports in a CSC Zongshen head are noticeably better to begin with. I've also noticed a few other subtle differences in the CSC head. They include what appear to be iron inserts cast into the aluminum head for the threads that the rocker arm assembly bolts screw into. I don't have a different head to compare side by side, but I'm absolutely certain there are differences in the head on a CSC bike to those that I've seen posted up here from other brands.

If and when I have occasion to disassemble the head I'd certainly clean up any machining edges and put a thin back-cut above the sealing area on the valves, but I doubt that would yield any seat-of-pants difference in the way it runs with the current cam that I have.

[superjocko]

Here's an interesting read on porting: http://www.mototuneusa.com/power_news_--_think_fast.htm

Keep in mind that the "Hawk" he refers to is a Honda Hawk, a whole different animal than the RPS Hawk. Much of the information contained on the site applies to any 4-stroke engine though. Just be sure to account for the fact that most of the stuff he talks about is 4 valves per cylinder.

[bigdano711]

Originally Posted by Bill Hilly

I have went the cheaper way, and did not buy from Motocult, but I have the long duration cam, timing advance key, and a home ported head, along with a 250cc jug, and piston (70mm). I also have the roller followers, and my definitely has more power at higher RPM than it did. I don't think 10,000 rpm would be possible, and if it were, it's power would have probably dropped off, but my bike will pull, and still be making good powered past 8,000. I don't like to run it past 8,000, but I have let it get a little past it a few times, in the lower gears , mainly by accident. Some say that it's not really stressing these motors to run such high RPM , but I don't like to. Warming up the CG motor has kinda fallen out of favor, because a lot are just switching to the OHC, 6 speed, but if I compare my Hawk to my KPX, there is no real difference in range if the bikes, and I am sure the Hawk will out accelerate the KPX, and both bikes run , and run unstressed , on the fast main roads. The only use my Hawk could possibly have for a 6th gear, would be in the case of wanting it to be able to crawl through harsh rocky terrain, and therefore using lower sprocket ratios.

If not MotoCult, who? links?

[Bill Hilly]

Originally Posted by bigdano711

If not MotoCult, who? links?

This is the cam and followers, I ordered, but they ended up being free to me, because they didn't show up till way later, and I already was refunded my money. The cam gear didn't have a dot on it, but I just used the slot for the cam pin as reference, and made my own dot, it was only one tooth away from the slot for the pin. I got the 4degree key from a member on here. I am pretty sure the cam is a 292 grind.https://www.ebay.com/itm/174384704948
This is the 70mm (250cc) kit, I used, but it comes with a stock like head gasket though, and I wish I had the steel one.Just found this amazing item on AliExpress. Check it out!
$75.84 | 70mm Big Bore Cylinder Kit Cylinder Piston Set For CG250 TO 300 CG300 16mm pin 167FMM
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMSYA6m

[superjocko]

You can certainly piece together the different bits to make up what comes in the Motocult kit, but do also be aware that you'd have to have material machined off the top of the cylinder deck, as well using the thinner head gasket, to obtain the same compression increase. That results in a change to the valve train geometry that can be corrected by either installing the rocker arm assembly shim included in the Motocult kit, or using shorter pushrods. I chose to use shorter pushrods myself.

I ultimately chose to go with the Motocult kit because it was basically a drop-in deal with all the figuring and machining already done for me. They also included a couple handy tools, a flywheel puller and MAG side crank seal installer, in the kit. Was it more money that way? Sure, but I don't mind supporting those that are into helping us make our CG engines better for our purposes. Also, the owner, Devin Biek, has been very responsive and helpful the couple times that I called him for some technical direction. People will have their own opinions, but I think what Motocult provides is fairly priced given the development and testing they've done to make sure their kit works well.

[Bill Hilly]

I DO wish that I used the thinner gasket, but have no desire to have the cylinder milled. I can already tell from the heat on my right lower leg, that I run a little hotter, and honestly I am satisfied enough with my results that I probably won't even fool with the steel head gasket, but I may eventually, after the weather gets cold again. I did all my stuff at once, do I don't know which mod gave me the biggest boost, but it definitely gave my bike much longer legs. Also, I usually try to get, non ethanol 90
octane, but in warmer weather when I use gas fast, I sometimes just run mid grade gas from what ever station is closest. I would think that if I had a lot more compression, I would not only run a lot hotter, but have to be pickier about gas. The best performance that I could gain , in reality is to loose some weight, but from a strictly logical point of view, I should have left my motor alone till it needed rebuilt, because when I was running a 16/46, it was still alright for what I was using it for, and I was using my KPX for longer rides on the main roads. Now I am using the Hawk in the same way a lot, and putting more wear, and tear on it, and not riding the KPX enough. I am going to go for a ride in a few minutes, and take the KPX.