Factory muffler on the TT250 is illegal. -?-

'16 TT250 · 05-31-2016, 10:52 AM

Federal law states that the motorcycle frame must display a label stating it meets noise and emissions laws, that label also has to state that modifying the exhaust to exceed noise limits is illegal. I believe Ca. bikes must also be labeled with CARB approval info. The muffler itself must also be labeled, generally stamped into the metal, with similar info on it. Off-road mufflers must also be labeled with spark arrestor approval info to be legal for off-road use. Neither the bike or muffler have these labels. While law enforcement is unlikely to inspect a quiet muffler, if they do it's a ticket to the rider for using a non-approved muffler. It could possibly even escalate to impoundment since the motorcycle has no approval tag and it will appear to have been removed which I think is illegal.

I noticed that the muffler wasn't stamped right away and assumed that maybe it was exempt. I hadn't thought about the frame label 'till I started reading up. Reading what I can find on-line I can't find any exemptions for the labels other than on export only and competition only bikes that can never be registered for public use on or off road.

I'll be calling CSC later, but wanted to toss this out there for others to chime in if I'm missing something that does actually make it legal for the bike and muffler to not be tagged.

EDIT: please refrain from calling CSC, we don't need to flood them with calls over the same thing, I'll report back later. If my finding doesn't satisfy you then by all means ring them up.

2LZ · 05-31-2016, 10:56 AM

I have not one single stock muffler that has any stamping in it regarding CARB or USFS spark arrestor information, that I've seen. I can look again tonight. Only my after-market units have that information, if I recall correctly.
Any time I've been out to an OHV park, the Rangers don't look for stamping or labeling, they stick a coat hanger up the pipe looking for it to stop.

Weldangrind · 05-31-2016, 10:58 AM

Even the Honda muffler I welded on my Lifan has no such stampings; not even USFS.

'16 TT250 · 05-31-2016, 11:42 AM

Odd, every bike I recall looking at with stock mufflers have been stamped. It's engrained in my head enough that the unstamped one on the TT stood out immediately.

Edit: the coat hanger check is to verify it hasn't been tampered with, but pretty sure that if it's not stamped you can still be cited or denied entry at places where they check at entry. I know one place near here they check any bike that looks or sounds modified; no stamp, no entry.

'16 TT250 · 05-31-2016, 11:55 AM

Copied off the US Forestry website.

Qualifications for OHV Spark Arresters:
The qualification standard requires spark arresters to be permanently marked with the model number and manufacturer’s name or trademark.

There's a separate section that details verifying that the spark arrestor hasn't been removed using a soft wooden dowel and giving specifics on checking them.

'16 TT250 · 05-31-2016, 01:21 PM

I talked to Steve at CSC about it. The exhaust is EPA and CARB approved, according to him the stamping and label aren't required, still have my doubts there. The muffler is not forestry approved which pretty much kills legally riding in any place I know of. I get that it probably won't get checked if it's quiet and that it would pass a poker test, but it's not legal.

TXDSRIDER · 05-31-2016, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2LZ

I have not one single stock muffler that has any stamping in it regarding CARB or USFS spark arrestor information, that I've seen. I can look again tonight. Only my after-market units have that information, if I recall correctly.
Any time I've been out to an OHV park, the Rangers don't look for stamping or labeling, they stick a coat hanger up the pipe looking for it to stop.

Same here I have never had a stamp on the exhaust of any motorcyle or atv I have owned.

BlackBike · 05-31-2016, 10:57 PM

Everyone from the manufacturer s, the people who write these endless laws rules and regulations, and the enforcement personal can't keep up with the latest edicts and procedures.

Middle fingers up,... Salute!

RedSpruce · 06-01-2016, 12:27 AM

In my experience, it is only motos that are not street legal that have to have the USFS stamp of approval. If it has a license plate on it it doesn't have to have the stamp.

Look at it this way, if everything had to have a USFS stamp then your Jeep Wrangler or any other road legal vehicle would have to have one, and they don't.

Of course it is always up to the interpretation of the USFS LEO that you may have to deal with.

Below is the link to the official USFS Spark Arrester Guide.
http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/programs/fi...ets/2012_GP.pd

'16 TT250 · 06-01-2016, 12:49 AM

These labeling laws have been around since the 70's or 80's, not very new. Roadside enforcement targeting them was apparently stepped up in 2011 from what I've read, but still only being executed here & there. Today I checked a few more bikes and two quads, I still haven't found a frame nor OE exhaust that's not labeled whether Japanese, Italian, German, or American. Some of the labels are hard to find, Harley muffler stamps for one, but they've all been labeled except the TT.

I know that the forestry approval stamping does get looked at off-road, I've watched officers check for them.

'16 TT250 · 06-01-2016, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSpruce

In my experience, it is only motos that are not street legal that have to have the USFS stamp of approval. If it has a license plate on it it doesn't have to have the stamp.

Look at it this way, if everything had to have a USFS stamp then your Jeep Wrangler or any other road legal vehicle would have to have one, and they don't.

Of course it is always up to the interpretation of the USFS LEO that you may have to deal with.

Good point I'd forgotten. It's actually in the written law that all street legal mufflers are legal for use off-road. Street legal does require the identifying label as far as bikes are concerned so it's still a sketchy position to be in having an unstamped muffler. Guess I'll just go find a cop and see what he says about it.

moparrob · 06-01-2016, 02:09 AM

I see a market developing for aftermarket compliance labels. Any savvy printers among us?

dpl096 · 06-01-2016, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by '16 TT250

Good point I'd forgotten. It's actually in the written law that all street legal mufflers are legal for use off-road. Street legal does require the identifying label as far as bikes are concerned so it's still a sketchy position to be in having an unstamped muffler. Guess I'll just go find a cop and see what he says about it.

Please no donut shop jabs ,,,, it gets old trust me

'16 TT250 · 06-01-2016, 10:53 AM

The most looked at would be the one on the muffler so it would be stamped. The stick-on frame label will be present on any street legal motorcycle so it would be there unless the bike was a conversion or custom build. I believe conversions & customs are exempt and only production bikes are required to have the frame label, the exhaust is iffy and will probably vary by state. The law I've referred to 'till now is Federal law requirements of production motorcycles. Since each state has it's own allowance for conversions and custom builds the state will dictate. In Ca. it's a bitch to street legalize off-road stuff, in Az. I see all kinda stuff with license plates cruising around; quads, UTV's, etc. If it has lights, horn, & mirrors you get a plate. They apparently don't even concern themselves with DOT tires from what I've seen. Riding a Banshee to the store with no helmet and wearing a side arm was a crazy taste of liberty for me, not that I usually want to ride without gear, but it's nice to have that freedom. I always want to have a gun, legally would be nice.

2LZ · 06-01-2016, 10:55 AM

I've been checked a bunch of times over the years. Every time I go into an OHV park at the gate and also, at least a half dozen time in USFS lands in the middle of nowhere and the rangers have always just stuck a wire up the pipe looking for it to hit an obstacle, be it a baffle, screen or whatever....and they've had no problems.
Last thing I want to do is be "that guy" who starts the wildfire anyway.

Even if there was a stamp or sticker, they probably wouldn't trust it anyway as people love to cheat around labels.

05-31-2016, 10:52 AM	#1
'16 TT250 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Hacienda Heights, Ca Posts: 281	Factory muffler on the TT250 is illegal. -?- Federal law states that the motorcycle frame must display a label stating it meets noise and emissions laws, that label also has to state that modifying the exhaust to exceed noise limits is illegal. I believe Ca. bikes must also be labeled with CARB approval info. The muffler itself must also be labeled, generally stamped into the metal, with similar info on it. Off-road mufflers must also be labeled with spark arrestor approval info to be legal for off-road use. Neither the bike or muffler have these labels. While law enforcement is unlikely to inspect a quiet muffler, if they do it's a ticket to the rider for using a non-approved muffler. It could possibly even escalate to impoundment since the motorcycle has no approval tag and it will appear to have been removed which I think is illegal. I noticed that the muffler wasn't stamped right away and assumed that maybe it was exempt. I hadn't thought about the frame label 'till I started reading up. Reading what I can find on-line I can't find any exemptions for the labels other than on export only and competition only bikes that can never be registered for public use on or off road. I'll be calling CSC later, but wanted to toss this out there for others to chime in if I'm missing something that does actually make it legal for the bike and muffler to not be tagged. EDIT: please refrain from calling CSC, we don't need to flood them with calls over the same thing, I'll report back later. If my finding doesn't satisfy you then by all means ring them up.
	0

05-31-2016, 10:56 AM	#2
2LZ Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Volcano, Ca Posts: 7,054	I have not one single stock muffler that has any stamping in it regarding CARB or USFS spark arrestor information, that I've seen. I can look again tonight. Only my after-market units have that information, if I recall correctly. Any time I've been out to an OHV park, the Rangers don't look for stamping or labeling, they stick a coat hanger up the pipe looking for it to stop. __________________ "Light a fire for a man, and you heat him for a day. Light a man on fire, and you heat him for the rest of his life." 2007 Suzuki DRZ400S (SM convert) 2009 Q Link XP 200 1967 BSA B25 250cc Starfire 2022 Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 2023 Royal Enfield Scram 411 1948 Royal Enfield Model G 350
	0

05-31-2016, 10:58 AM	#3
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Even the Honda muffler I welded on my Lifan has no such stampings; not even USFS. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-31-2016, 10:57 PM	#8
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	Everyone from the manufacturer s, the people who write these endless laws rules and regulations, and the enforcement personal can't keep up with the latest edicts and procedures. Middle fingers up,... Salute! __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~
	1

06-01-2016, 12:27 AM	#9
RedSpruce Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Northeast Oregon Posts: 40	In my experience, it is only motos that are not street legal that have to have the USFS stamp of approval. If it has a license plate on it it doesn't have to have the stamp. Look at it this way, if everything had to have a USFS stamp then your Jeep Wrangler or any other road legal vehicle would have to have one, and they don't. Of course it is always up to the interpretation of the USFS LEO that you may have to deal with. Below is the link to the official USFS Spark Arrester Guide. http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/programs/fi...ets/2012_GP.pd __________________ Current Motos: 2015 RX3, 2016 CSC TT, 1975 Honda XL250
	0

05-31-2016, 11:42 AM	#4
'16 TT250 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Hacienda Heights, Ca Posts: 281	Odd, every bike I recall looking at with stock mufflers have been stamped. It's engrained in my head enough that the unstamped one on the TT stood out immediately. Edit: the coat hanger check is to verify it hasn't been tampered with, but pretty sure that if it's not stamped you can still be cited or denied entry at places where they check at entry. I know one place near here they check any bike that looks or sounds modified; no stamp, no entry.
	0

05-31-2016, 11:55 AM	#5
'16 TT250 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Hacienda Heights, Ca Posts: 281	Copied off the US Forestry website. Qualifications for OHV Spark Arresters: The qualification standard requires spark arresters to be permanently marked with the model number and manufacturer’s name or trademark. There's a separate section that details verifying that the spark arrestor hasn't been removed using a soft wooden dowel and giving specifics on checking them.
	0

05-31-2016, 01:21 PM	#6
'16 TT250 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Hacienda Heights, Ca Posts: 281	I talked to Steve at CSC about it. The exhaust is EPA and CARB approved, according to him the stamping and label aren't required, still have my doubts there. The muffler is not forestry approved which pretty much kills legally riding in any place I know of. I get that it probably won't get checked if it's quiet and that it would pass a poker test, but it's not legal.
	0

06-01-2016, 12:49 AM	#10
'16 TT250 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Hacienda Heights, Ca Posts: 281	These labeling laws have been around since the 70's or 80's, not very new. Roadside enforcement targeting them was apparently stepped up in 2011 from what I've read, but still only being executed here & there. Today I checked a few more bikes and two quads, I still haven't found a frame nor OE exhaust that's not labeled whether Japanese, Italian, German, or American. Some of the labels are hard to find, Harley muffler stamps for one, but they've all been labeled except the TT. I know that the forestry approval stamping does get looked at off-road, I've watched officers check for them.
	0

06-01-2016, 02:09 AM	#12
moparrob Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 79	I see a market developing for aftermarket compliance labels. Any savvy printers among us?
	1

06-01-2016, 10:53 AM	#14
'16 TT250 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Hacienda Heights, Ca Posts: 281	The most looked at would be the one on the muffler so it would be stamped. The stick-on frame label will be present on any street legal motorcycle so it would be there unless the bike was a conversion or custom build. I believe conversions & customs are exempt and only production bikes are required to have the frame label, the exhaust is iffy and will probably vary by state. The law I've referred to 'till now is Federal law requirements of production motorcycles. Since each state has it's own allowance for conversions and custom builds the state will dictate. In Ca. it's a bitch to street legalize off-road stuff, in Az. I see all kinda stuff with license plates cruising around; quads, UTV's, etc. If it has lights, horn, & mirrors you get a plate. They apparently don't even concern themselves with DOT tires from what I've seen. Riding a Banshee to the store with no helmet and wearing a side arm was a crazy taste of liberty for me, not that I usually want to ride without gear, but it's nice to have that freedom. I always want to have a gun, legally would be nice.
	1

06-01-2016, 10:55 AM	#15
2LZ Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Volcano, Ca Posts: 7,054	I've been checked a bunch of times over the years. Every time I go into an OHV park at the gate and also, at least a half dozen time in USFS lands in the middle of nowhere and the rangers have always just stuck a wire up the pipe looking for it to hit an obstacle, be it a baffle, screen or whatever....and they've had no problems. Last thing I want to do is be "that guy" who starts the wildfire anyway. Even if there was a stamp or sticker, they probably wouldn't trust it anyway as people love to cheat around labels. __________________ "Light a fire for a man, and you heat him for a day. Light a man on fire, and you heat him for the rest of his life." 2007 Suzuki DRZ400S (SM convert) 2009 Q Link XP 200 1967 BSA B25 250cc Starfire 2022 Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 2023 Royal Enfield Scram 411 1948 Royal Enfield Model G 350
	0