Hawk Talk

[Ariel Red Hunter]

An overhead cam engine. Hmm. there are trade-offs, as always. Engine is almost always taller. (Except certain weird designs, like the face-cam Chater-Lea). Very difficult to make as light as a push-rod job. If it is a chain drive, should have a 50% reduction to the chain. That way the chain runs at half of engine speed. For a racing engine, with the best parts obtainable, built virtually without regard to cost, taking the reduction in the chain drive system is acceptable because of less weight. We now live in the age of total mass-production. So an engine is now designed for a purpose, not just as a lightweight, junior, or senior class. Road bikes are the most popular class. So an engine is usually designed for a roadster, where acceleration and top speed is very important, especially in the lightweight class (250cc). Then, if the powers that be decide an enduro/dual sport is required to fill out the line, it should be no surprise that they look at the engine they are already building, for reasons of cost control. Perhaps they design a more tractable cam and fit a smaller carburetor. But the porting stays the same, which is really too big for an off-road bike engine. Of course, when cost is no object, then we have bikes like the KTM.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

An overhead cam engine. Hmm. there are trade-offs, as always. Engine is almost always taller. (Except certain weird designs, like the face-cam Chater-Lea). Very difficult to make as light as a push-rod job. If it is a chain drive, should have a 50% reduction to the chain. That way the chain runs at half of engine speed. For a racing engine, with the best parts obtainable, built virtually without regard to cost, taking the reduction in the chain drive system is acceptable because of less weight. We now live in the age of total mass-production. So an engine is now designed for a purpose, not just as a lightweight, junior, or senior class. Road bikes are the most popular class. So an engine is usually designed for a roadster, where acceleration and top speed is very important, especially in the lightweight class (250cc). Then, if the powers that be decide an enduro/dual sport is required to fill out the line, it should be no surprise that they look at the engine they are already building, for reasons of cost control. Perhaps they design a more tractable cam and fit a smaller carburetor. But the porting stays the same, which is really too big for an off-road bike engine. Of course, when cost is no object, then we have bikes like the KTM.

Good points and it has to do with riding need and preference.

The absolute beauty of the CG motor, both balanced and unbalanced, is that it's built to be bullet proof under the worst conditions possible. It's all about simplicity, ease of repair and long term reliability. Thanks to the pushrods, it does have a really nice mid-range that's a very useful, utilitarian powerband. It also sips gas. Another plus.

For instance, my neighbor has ridden my Q multiple times now. Granted, it's just a 200cc but it's an OHC Suzuki-type motor, a real Mikuni CV carb and it develops much more top end than the TT, even modified. I have it geared longer legged because the top end will pull the higher speeds. Q can pull 70 mph. Ridiculous for a little 200cc bike.

Then he rode the TT... His quote was "This is exactly what I'm looking for in a 250. More torque and useable power for our hills, dirt roads and curves." He really liked the power band and the friendly attitude of the CG motor.

These motors, while mod-able to get their true potential, need to be seen as what they really are. Simple, low maintenance, with long term reliability and user friendly power...that can haul your family of three and a goat to slaughter....on very little fuel.

[BlackBike]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

Good points and it has to do with riding need and preference.

The absolute beauty of the CG motor, both balanced and unbalanced, is that it's built to be bullet proof under the worst conditions possible. It's all about simplicity, ease of repair and long term reliability. Thanks to the pushrods, it does have a really nice mid-range that's a very useful, utilitarian powerband. It also sips gas. Another plus.

For instance, my neighbor has ridden my Q multiple times now. Granted, it's just a 200cc but it's an OHC Suzuki-type motor, a real Mikuni CV carb and it develops much more top end than the TT, even modified. I have it geared longer legged because the top end will pull the higher speeds. Q can pull 70 mph. Ridiculous for a little 200cc bike.

Then he rode the TT... His quote was "This is exactly what I'm looking for in a 250. More torque and useable power for our hills, dirt roads and curves." He really liked the power band and the friendly attitude of the CG motor.

These motors, while mod-able to get their true potential, need to be seen as what they really are. Simple, low maintenance, with long term reliability and user friendly power...that can haul your family of three and a goat to slaughter....on very little fuel.

Hehe good read, just like you knew what you were doing.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Someone asked me about my riding experience. I think I will start by telling you all the motorcycles I have owned, or had considerable experience with. First bike was a Francis-Barnett 125. Three speeds. Slow, slower, and damn near stopped. Topped out at just over 40 mph. Then I finagled my way into the ownership of an Ariel Red Hunter 350. Wonderful bike. Had good tele hydraulic front forks, and Antsey Link rear suspension. Came with a well tuned engine, like all Red Hunters. Wonderful handling, and beautifully built. 1949 year model. Had a Lycette saddle. Topped out at about 84 mph. Rode my first TT race on it. (Southern California TT's). Then a 350 AJS. Why? It had SwingArm rear suspension. The engine wasn't as powerful as the Ariel, but the swing arm rear meant the rear wheel was "hooked up" more of the time on the TT tracks, so it was actually faster around the course. It also jumped better. 3.50X19 front and rear. I ran a Pirelli Universal on the front, and a Goodyear Grasshopper on the rear. I did pretty well with that bike, usually finishing in the top 4. I was considered crazy because I used the front brake. Then there was a short romance with a H-D 74. It was a good highway bike, but a hard starter. Then I lucked into a 1938 Indian Chief that had been brought up to Bonneville specs. 80 cubic inches. Would really stroll. Ate H-D 74's for breakfast. Mucho fun.

[hertz9753]

I bought a K&N 33-2238 filter that somebody was talking about here. It is smaller than stock but it does fit. The sound reminds me of flipping the lid on a round air cleaner in an old car. Not that I ever did that..

[2LZ]

Awesome drop-in hertz! I think I remembered someone saying they greased the gasket edge or something like that? Did you have to do that?

[hertz9753]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

Awesome drop-in hertz! I think I remembered someone saying they greased the gasket edge or something like that? Did you have to do that?

https://www.amazon.com/Duck-282435-H.../dp/B0025KUSXW

Since the lip wasn't as thick as stock I used that on the top and grease on the bottom.

I never just buy what I came for when I go to Runnings. I also think that blonde chick in the water trough wanted to go home with me.

[BlackBike]

Originally Posted by hertz9753

https://www.amazon.com/Duck-282435-H.../dp/B0025KUSXW

Since the lip wasn't as thick as stock I used that on the top and grease on the bottom.

I never just buy what I came for when I go to Runnings. I also think that blonde chick in the water trough wanted to go home with me.

Or stab you in the kidney at the first stop and rob your arse. Ain't I nice

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

Someone asked me about my riding experience. I think I will start by telling you all the motorcycles I have owned, or had considerable experience with. First bike was a Francis-Barnett 125. Three speeds. Slow, slower, and damn near stopped. Topped out at just over 40 mph. Then I finagled my way into the ownership of an Ariel Red Hunter 350. Wonderful bike. Had good tele hydraulic front forks, and Antsey Link rear suspension. Came with a well tuned engine, like all Red Hunters. Wonderful handling, and beautifully built. 1949 year model. Had a Lycette saddle. Topped out at about 84 mph. Rode my first TT race on it. (Southern California TT's). Then a 350 AJS. Why? It had SwingArm rear suspension. The engine wasn't as powerful as the Ariel, but the swing arm rear meant the rear wheel was "hooked up" more of the time on the TT tracks, so it was actually faster around the course. It also jumped better. 3.50X19 front and rear. I ran a Pirelli Universal on the front, and a Goodyear Grasshopper on the rear. I did pretty well with that bike, usually finishing in the top 4. I was considered crazy because I used the front brake. Then there was a short romance with a H-D 74. It was a good highway bike, but a hard starter. Then I lucked into a 1938 Indian Chief that had been brought up to Bonneville specs. 80 cubic inches. Would really stroll. Ate H-D 74's for breakfast. Mucho fun.

And it had that strange (to modern eyes) leaf spring front suspension. You guys would be amazed at how well that front suspension worked. And how beautifully it steered. That year was either the last or next to last year Indian Chief with 18" tires, front and rear. I bought that bike for $400.00. Check what they bring now. I sold the Indian in order to buy a pick-up so I could haul a BSA Goldstar flat tracker back and forth. I wasn't good enough to compete in that league, so other people rode it. 60-40 split. Bike owner got 60% of the winnings. That bike was too expensive for me to keep competitive, so I sold it and bought a 250 Ducati bevel drive single for road racing. Did OK with it until the Moto-Parilla's and the Aermacci Harley-Davidsons started to show up. Those were both push rod singles, and were considerably faster than the Ducati's. I eased out of road racing when the Yamaha strokers started to come on. I didn't have a bike for a couple of years (I was involved with an Offy powered sprint car.) so I bought an AJS Model 14 CSR. That's a 250, and a very fast (and Light) one. Eventually, after I got married, I had a BSA Thunderbolt 650, then a Triumph 500 along with a Triumph Trophy 250. A couple of more years went by, then a Honda XL 125 (one of the hardest starting bikes I've ever owned) but fun to ride, a BMW R90S and that's about it. Oh yeah, a Yamaha DT175 and an iron head Sportster.

[hertz9753]

Originally Posted by BlackBike

Or stab you in the kidney at the first stop and rob your arse. Ain't I nice

I don't think they can hold a knife.

[BlackBike]

Delicious, nice work with weatherstripping.

[LunaTech]

@hertz9753-I did the same thing except I used some black sticky back weather stripping I had. Worked great sealing it up. The K&N rubber seal area is just a little thinner than the stock.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

One of the charms, generaly speaking, of 250 cc motor-cycles, is you can enjoy riding them really hard without annoying the minions of the law. Also depends on which state you live in, of course. Vermont has a 45 mph limit on two lane roads, Texas has a 70 mph limit on their 2 lanes, out in the country.

Now, back to the Hawk. I would immediatly change the engine oil to a 15W-40, or 20W50 before I even started it up. I use Shell Rotella because it is easy to get. I would run dino oil for the first 500 miles, then change it to synthetic. Synthetic deals with the heat these engines produce better, and lasts longer. It also deals with lubing the transmission better, because it withstands the slicing and dicing going on in the transmission better as well. Then I'd change the oil every 1000 miles. Oil really takes a beating in this engine, partly because there isn't very much of it.
Old timey trick is to smear grease over the inside of the air-cleaner box (not on the element!). Captures sand and other grit going in the box. What to do about carburetion and exhaust is up to you. I would change to a VM26 Mikuni, the one with a starting circuit instead of a butterfly choke. I would change the exhaust system completely. The stock head pipe is the worst I have ever seen for exhaust flow. Also change the gasket where the head pipe meets the head to the copper o-ring type. These engines seem to respond really well to changing the spark plug to the Iradium type. Be sure to check the valve adjustment. They seem to come from the factory over tight.

[hertz9753]

I bought the cheap 'fake' one carb.

[hertz9753]

Originally Posted by LunaTech

@hertz9753-I did the same thing except I used some black sticky back weather stripping I had. Worked great sealing it up. The K&N rubber seal area is just a little thinner than the stock.

You are that guy. Only two of us have tried the tried the K&N so far.

The weather stripping is used so the retainer can push down on the filter and the filter seals on the airbox.