Chinese Honda ST clone - Page 2

pete · 07-12-2017, 02:05 AM

The chinese copys are a copy of the Honda 70..
Honda 90 & 110 motors are the same concept but
bigger/heavyer built..
Honda wern't prepaird to stretch the 70 out to 90 then 110
they built a bigger more robust motor..

I have a CT110 and a chinese 110 copy... you can see the physical size diffrents..
the Honda 110 is a bigger motor size wise...

..

dirtbkr188 · 07-12-2017, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce's

I might pull a few top ends off and try mixing and matching different barrels to see if everything does work...

Bruce,
One thing to keep in mind is that the engine stud spacing may vary slightly between Chinese engines and also may be different than the Honda spacing. That slight variation can result in mismatched parts bolted together without any dowel pins used at all to keep the top end aligned on the cases. I've seen it firsthand.

ricardoguitars · 07-12-2017, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce's

This is more along the lines of the kits I was talking about for a 110 conversion on a crf type engine .I don't know enough of the ins and outs of the clone internals ,but dirtbkr's post shows it might be a doable deal if you are starting from a clone ,I have several blown up clones and originals here in all sizes ,I might pull a few top ends off and try mixing and matching different barrels to see if everything does work as drtbkrs post shows .

That would be awesome!

Weldangrind · 07-12-2017, 12:36 PM

Since we all agree that the China pit bike engines are copied from the Honda 50-70 case, We can talk apples to apples. I'm saying that I think the 90 and the 110 China pit bike engine share a crank but have different bores. If that's true (and I'm not sure), then this kit would be a bolt-on deal: http://www.ebay.com/itm/52mm-Cylinde...lYqmHJ&vxp=mtr
The price is certainly right.

Bruce's · 07-12-2017, 03:07 PM

I think you are right Weld ,it seems the Chinese clones have the ability ,yet the Honda engines do not have the crank or the block machined to work with that kit .Of course ,it just opens up a can of worms ,does the head work well with the bigger cylinder,need a bigger carb with it ? ,exhaust ?

ricardoguitars · 07-12-2017, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

Since we all agree that the China pit bike engines are copied from the Honda 50-70 case, We can talk apples to apples. I'm saying that I think the 90 and the 110 China pit bike engine share a crank but have different bores. If that's true (and I'm not sure), then this kit would be a bolt-on deal: http://www.ebay.com/itm/52mm-Cylinde...lYqmHJ&vxp=mtr
The price is certainly right.

I wouldn't mind paying 30 bucks for 20cc more

Mudflap · 07-12-2017, 03:30 PM

On Lifan engines the 125/140/150 has a different head with larger valves than the 110 and smaller engines. Have no idea about other brands.

dirtbkr188 · 07-12-2017, 04:06 PM

Just an FYI, a 52mm big bore kit does bolt right up to a Honda lower end, no case boring required. You do have to case bore to go up to a 54mm big bore kit on a Honda, but shouldn't have to on a Chinese lower end, the case bore is big enough for the 54mm spigot.

I apologize if I've created any confusion...

Weldangrind · 07-13-2017, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricardoguitars

I wouldn't mind paying 30 bucks for 20cc more

It's a gamble, but not much of one.

Weldangrind · 07-13-2017, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce's

I think you are right Weld ,it seems the Chinese clones have the ability ,yet the Honda engines do not have the crank or the block machined to work with that kit .Of course ,it just opens up a can of worms ,does the head work well with the bigger cylinder,need a bigger carb with it ? ,exhaust ?

I've heard the same thing as Mudflap, which is that everything smaller than 110 (in the Chinese clone world) shares the same head. A jump from 90 to 110 would certainly require bigger jets, but I suspect that's it.

pete · 07-13-2017, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce's

I think you are right Weld ,it seems the Chinese clones have the ability ,yet the Honda engines do not have the crank or the block machined to work with that kit .Of course ,it just opens up a can of worms ,does the head work well with the bigger cylinder,need a bigger carb with it ? ,exhaust ?

the head will work better with a bigger bore as the side of the valves
closest to the cylinder wall have better flow because of more space..
providing you havn't gone that big that to valves are to small to fill
the cylinder....

...

Weldangrind · 07-13-2017, 12:08 PM

I agree with your logic, Pete. Unshrouding the valves will promote better flow.

ricardoguitars · 07-17-2017, 12:33 PM

I picked it up on Saturday, the engine is the one with the semi-auto gearbox, no clutch, you just push down the gear lever to go from neutral to 4th gear, and pull up to go from 4th gear to neutral, it is a bit weird, you have to be careful when shifting to avoid a willie when upshifting or hard braking when downshifting.

Here is a video of the first ride, I figured out the reverse gear order when I saw the gear order label on the side of the bike, lol. It runs faster than I thought it would, the chinometer says 70km/h, but I have to GPS test it to get the accurate measurement.

07-12-2017, 02:05 AM	#16
pete Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: ChCh , NZ Posts: 2,261	The chinese copys are a copy of the Honda 70.. Honda 90 & 110 motors are the same concept but bigger/heavyer built.. Honda wern't prepaird to stretch the 70 out to 90 then 110 they built a bigger more robust motor.. I have a CT110 and a chinese 110 copy... you can see the physical size diffrents.. the Honda 110 is a bigger motor size wise... .. __________________ 09 XT660R ... 06 TTR250 ... 80 Montesa H6 125 Enduro... 77 Montesa Cota 348 MRR "Malcom Rathnell Replica"... Current resto projects.. 81 Honda CT110... 80 Kawasaki KL250A1... 11 Husaburg TE125 enduro... "sold" along with another 31... Lifan 125 Pitbike.. "stolen" ... KIWI BIKER FORUM...... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/content.php All the best offroad rides in NZ... http://www.remotemoto.com/ E-mail... xtpete1@gmail.com
	1

07-12-2017, 12:36 PM	#19
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Since we all agree that the China pit bike engines are copied from the Honda 50-70 case, We can talk apples to apples. I'm saying that I think the 90 and the 110 China pit bike engine share a crank but have different bores. If that's true (and I'm not sure), then this kit would be a bolt-on deal: http://www.ebay.com/itm/52mm-Cylinde...lYqmHJ&vxp=mtr The price is certainly right. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	2

07-13-2017, 12:08 PM	#27
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I agree with your logic, Pete. Unshrouding the valves will promote better flow. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

07-12-2017, 03:07 PM	#20
Bruce's Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sudbury ,Ontario Posts: 855	I think you are right Weld ,it seems the Chinese clones have the ability ,yet the Honda engines do not have the crank or the block machined to work with that kit .Of course ,it just opens up a can of worms ,does the head work well with the bigger cylinder,need a bigger carb with it ? ,exhaust ?
	2

07-12-2017, 03:30 PM	#22
Mudflap Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,870	On Lifan engines the 125/140/150 has a different head with larger valves than the 110 and smaller engines. Have no idea about other brands.
	2

07-12-2017, 04:06 PM	#23
dirtbkr188 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 496	Just an FYI, a 52mm big bore kit does bolt right up to a Honda lower end, no case boring required. You do have to case bore to go up to a 54mm big bore kit on a Honda, but shouldn't have to on a Chinese lower end, the case bore is big enough for the 54mm spigot. I apologize if I've created any confusion...
	2

07-17-2017, 12:33 PM	#28
ricardoguitars Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Costa Rica Posts: 82	I picked it up on Saturday, the engine is the one with the semi-auto gearbox, no clutch, you just push down the gear lever to go from neutral to 4th gear, and pull up to go from 4th gear to neutral, it is a bit weird, you have to be careful when shifting to avoid a willie when upshifting or hard braking when downshifting. Here is a video of the first ride, I figured out the reverse gear order when I saw the gear order label on the side of the bike, lol. It runs faster than I thought it would, the chinometer says 70km/h, but I have to GPS test it to get the accurate measurement.
	1