Any Hawk DLX 250 EFI reviews yet?

[Overland Adventure]

Hey everyone!

I've had a Hawk 250 sitting in my eBay cart for two years now. I've debated about pulling the trigger on it constantly for those two years and have now decided screw it, I'm going to get one. After doing some research today, I stumbled across the new Hawk DLX 250 EFI. I gather they're new to the market, do any members here have one? I'd love to hear some feedback on how they "feel" versus the carbed Hawks. I'm really struggling to find reviews of the DLX EFI version, how new are they to the market? At this point price is not a concern for me, so I have zero issues spending the extra $600 for the EFI hawk if it's truly the better bike, I'd just like to chat to a few members that have experience with the DLX vs the 'original' hawk before I blindly drop that extra $600, you know?

Thanks guys!

[SilverBullet51]

Have you checked out Motocheez on YouTube, he has a hawk Dlx efi, and did a pretty good review on it. I'm currently researching myself, do like the idea of efi though.

[Overland Adventure]

Originally Posted by SilverBullet51

Have you checked out Motocheez on YouTube, he has a hawk Dlx efi, and did a pretty good review on it. I'm currently researching myself, do like the idea of efi though.

Thanks to you I have now found and watched that review! He says in the video that that stock EFI version feels like a modded carbed Hawk, so seems like the DLX has some extra umph over the carbed bikes.

[Baskt_Case]

It is my observation that the EFI model achieves an approximately 5mph higher top speed than a well tuned carb (no head work) bike using the same sprockets. 68-70 mph versus 63-65 mph, average.

Other than that the EFI is offering better cold start characteristics and no fuss idle.

The jury is still out on long term reliability but so far so good. The bike is using a Delphi injection system which is already industry proven, and I believe was already in use on the RX3 for some time.

So, if you absolutely don't want to be bothered with tuning and have no plans for cylinder head work on the engine, I say go ahead and get the EFI bike. I say that lightly though, both bikes will still require valve adjustment and the same attention to assembly detail and maintenance.

As is the case in the Chinabike game, tradeoffs are made here and there. The DLX brake lines are rubber on the outside versus metal braid on the carb bike. They are SAE DOT stamped but that does not specify materials or construction, only the passing of specific durability tests. Im not sure what else the DLX may surrender in compromise for the more pricey EFI setup.

As this is a Chinabike forum, I wont go spouting off recommendations for Japanese bikes, but you did say money is (somewhat) a non-issue. If that is the case, I would strongly recommend at least taking a look at GPX or SSR bikes. They are definitely top-shelf Chinabikes, and will whole handedly leave a Hawk, Brozz, BSR, Orion, TBR7, Apollo, and many others in the dust.

[NzBrakelathes]

Originally Posted by Baskt_Case

It is my observation that the EFI model achieves an approximately 5mph higher top speed than a well tuned carb (no head work) bike using the same sprockets. 68-70 mph versus 63-65 mph, average.

Other than that the EFI is offering better cold start characteristics and no fuss idle.

The jury is still out on long term reliability but so far so good. The bike is using a Delphi injection system which is already industry proven, and I believe was already in use on the RX3 for some time.

So, if you absolutely don't want to be bothered with tuning and have no plans for cylinder head work on the engine, I say go ahead and get the EFI bike. I say that lightly though, both bikes will still require valve adjustment and the same attention to assembly detail and maintenance.

As is the case in the Chinabike game, tradeoffs are made here and there. The DLX brake lines are rubber on the outside versus metal braid on the carb bike. They are SAE DOT stamped but that does not specify materials or construction, only the passing of specific durability tests. Im not sure what else the DLX may surrender in compromise for the more pricey EFI setup.

As this is a Chinabike forum, I wont go spouting off recommendations for Japanese bikes, but you did say money is (somewhat) a non-issue. If that is the case, I would strongly recommend at least taking a look at GPX or SSR bikes. They are definitely top-shelf Chinabikes, and will whole handedly leave a Hawk, Brozz, BSR, Orion, TBR7, Apollo, and many others in the dust.

Delphi ecu only
Plenty and most other things are not Delphi
Careful how you understand that, pretty much just Delphi software n brains not Delphi parts thru out etc

[Baskt_Case]

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

Delphi ecu only
Plenty and most other things are not Delphi
Careful how you understand that, pretty much just Delphi software n brains not Delphi parts thru out etc

Thanks for the additional information. So, is the RX3 Delphi throughout? I'm assuming the DLX system is mostly China clone? Its operation, including diagnostics would hopefully be very similar. So little good information exists right now.

[Overland Adventure]

Originally Posted by Baskt_Case

It is my observation that the EFI model achieves an approximately 5mph higher top speed than a well tuned carb (no head work) bike using the same sprockets. 68-70 mph versus 63-65 mph, average.

Other than that the EFI is offering better cold start characteristics and no fuss idle.

The jury is still out on long term reliability but so far so good. The bike is using a Delphi injection system which is already industry proven, and I believe was already in use on the RX3 for some time.

So, if you absolutely don't want to be bothered with tuning and have no plans for cylinder head work on the engine, I say go ahead and get the EFI bike. I say that lightly though, both bikes will still require valve adjustment and the same attention to assembly detail and maintenance.

As is the case in the Chinabike game, tradeoffs are made here and there. The DLX brake lines are rubber on the outside versus metal braid on the carb bike. They are SAE DOT stamped but that does not specify materials or construction, only the passing of specific durability tests. Im not sure what else the DLX may surrender in compromise for the more pricey EFI setup.

As this is a Chinabike forum, I wont go spouting off recommendations for Japanese bikes, but you did say money is (somewhat) a non-issue. If that is the case, I would strongly recommend at least taking a look at GPX or SSR bikes. They are definitely top-shelf Chinabikes, and will whole handedly leave a Hawk, Brozz, BSR, Orion, TBR7, Apollo, and many others in the dust.

Thank you for the the recommendation on the GPX and SSR bikes, I'll take a look at them! I will say, however, that I'm pretty dead set on the Hawk DLX. Part of my goal is to help those that are not as financially fortunate as me, so I'd like to document how far you can go with a ~$2,000 bike. I can afford to go out and blow $14,000 on a bike if I wanted, but I'm more interested in getting a $2,000 Hawk and helping the Chinabike community grow and document the best mod paths and grade longterm reliability. I like to tinker and experiment with extracting extra "umph" out of vehicles, so I love the idea of tinkering on a $2,000 bike versus buying a $14,000 bike that's bad ass right of the showroom floor, that I'll never turn a wrench on. Half the fun for me is turning wrenches in the pursuit for more power and reliability.

With that being said, you mentioned a carbed bike being the way to go if I intend on doing headwork. Wouldn't the EFI version benefit from this too? From what I understand the EFI "learns" as you ride, so it seems like it would "see" the extra flow of air and exhaust and learn to take advantage of it over time? The EFI will "see" changes in altitude and compensate, so I would hope it would also see the airflow benefits of quality porting, polishing, and valve work?

[Baskt_Case]

Originally Posted by Overland Adventure

..you mentioned a carbed bike being the way to go if I intend on doing headwork. Wouldn't the EFI version benefit from this too? From what I understand the EFI "learns" as you ride, so it seems like it would "see" the extra flow of air and exhaust and learn to take advantage of it over time? The EFI will "see" changes in altitude and compensate, so I would hope it would also see the airflow benefits of quality porting, polishing, and valve work?

Correct, EFI will adapt to altitude changes just fine. The full capabilities of the stock EFI system are basically unknown at this point in time. That being said, all we really can do is make some broad assumptions based on what we know about modern fuel injection until there is some good data and information available. Perhaps you will be able to make some progress in this area.

The computer is going to operate inside a set of predefined values known as a map (not to be confused with a MAP sensor, manifold absolute pressure). Using feedback from an O2 sensor, the computer will make adjustments to fuel delivery and spark timing to compensate for engine temp, air temp, and air volume. Most stock systems will operate at varying altitudes with no problem, especially considering operation at high altitude primarily only requires less fuel and some spark retardation. But, if you start INCREASING airflow beyond expected ranges, at some (yet unknown) point, the system will no longer be able to deliver enough fuel.

Currently, I am unaware of any method to reprogram, flash, edit, or otherwise alter the data in the computers map(s). However, gearheads have been finding ways around this for some time, with varying degrees of success. Even in cases where map tuning is possible, some or all of the following modifications may be employed...

Upgrade fuel pump
Add an auxiliary pump
Overvolt the stock pump
Modify or replace the fuel pressure regulator
Upgrade the injector
Mechanical adjustments that would effect timing

There are more, but usually the first and most desirable modification is reprogramming the computer. In comparison to all of this, all a carburetor requires is a $10 pack of jets, and your time and due diligence.

I'm sure the internet experts will have many disagreeable thoughts about everything I've said, but at least you will get the idea. At some point of upgrading airflow capabilities, it will be necessary to find a way to deliver more fuel than is possible with everything in its stock configuration. Whether that point comes after merely upgrading the exhaust, or is only necessary after serious port work and/or compression increases, still remains to be seen.

I would love to see someone install a proper A/F Ratio gauge on a DLX and then track the results through the application of various modifications.

[BuffaloChinaRider]

Originally Posted by Overland Adventure

Thank you for the the recommendation on the GPX and SSR bikes, I'll take a look at them! I will say, however, that I'm pretty dead set on the Hawk DLX. Part of my goal is to help those that are not as financially fortunate as me, so I'd like to document how far you can go with a ~$2,000 bike. I can afford to go out and blow $14,000 on a bike if I wanted, but I'm more interested in getting a $2,000 Hawk and helping the Chinabike community grow and document the best mod paths and grade longterm reliability. I like to tinker and experiment with extracting extra "umph" out of vehicles, so I love the idea of tinkering on a $2,000 bike versus buying a $14,000 bike that's bad ass right of the showroom floor, that I'll never turn a wrench on. Half the fun for me is turning wrenches in the pursuit for more power and reliability.

With that being said, you mentioned a carbed bike being the way to go if I intend on doing headwork. Wouldn't the EFI version benefit from this too? From what I understand the EFI "learns" as you ride, so it seems like it would "see" the extra flow of air and exhaust and learn to take advantage of it over time? The EFI will "see" changes in altitude and compensate, so I would hope it would also see the airflow benefits of quality porting, polishing, and valve work?

I'm happy you're gonna get the hawk ! I don't know many people with the efi hawk. Excited to see some news, update and any info on these. Youre helping to lead the way for sure.

[Overland Adventure]

Originally Posted by Baskt_Case

Currently, I am unaware of any method to reprogram, flash, edit, or otherwise alter the data in the computers map(s).

What if I told you I have a copy of the manufacturers EFI tuning software?

Originally Posted by Baskt_Case

I would love to see someone install a proper A/F Ratio gauge on a DLX and then track the results through the application of various modifications.

I own a A/F gauge. Consider that a challenge accepted!

Anyway, about that Chinabike tuning software...

[Baskt_Case]

Originally Posted by Overland Adventure

What if I told you I have a copy of the manufacturers EFI tuning software?

I would say that is awesome. Rather exciting actually. Care to share any additional details?

[LifeRider]

I purchased the Hawk 250 DLX EFI toward the end of October. Now I have only 200 miles on it since I put it away for the winter here in the Midwest. To me it has been a great! Choice with no issues. Changed the gear ratio to 13 - 33 using 520 O-ring chain and have no issues running 68 to 70 MPH at a comfortable RPM. Purchased a complete spare head from Brozz250 for $40.00 and milled it .040 - have yet to port it then will mount it up to see if the EFI adjust.
Only plan to use it to commute 9 miles each way to work and light trail riding. Around me, some great fishing areas that can be better accessed by motorcycle that I plan to use the bike for this year. They sell some nice telescoping fishing poles and tackle backpacks that would be perfect for this. Mostly I fish catch and release anyway.

[Overland Adventure]

Originally Posted by Baskt_Case

I would say that is awesome. Rather exciting actually. Care to share any additional details?

The download and everything you'd ever want to know is freely downloadable from http://www.motoefi.com/EFI/EFITune.htm
(Make sure you browse in Chrome and let Google automatically translate from Chinese to English)

Replacement EFI units to experiment with that work with this software are available here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3278...rtkey=FnA73Y7z

If we got the ChinaBike community, especially those with experience with performance EFI tuning on cars and/or a dyno, collectively working to create and try out custom fuel maps and tunes, these little 15hp bikes could probably become 20hp bikes just off of a really dialed in tune, and from there you can make even more power by accounting for extra flow from exhaust, headwork, etc.


Long story short these bikes are going to be either tuneable right out of the box, OR can be made tuneable for about $200. With the ability to increase your fuel and timing maps as you make performance enhancements to these bikes, I don't see why these new EFI Chinabikes can't become 23 - 25 hp bikes capable of holding 75 MPH with the right gearing and minimal modification effort. The software is there, the hardware is there, we just need some pioneers such as myself to import the factory EFI tune and simply start tinkering with it.

So many Chinabike guys (and even name brand bike guys) have told me its carburetor or nothing for them, but with the ability to do on the fly tuning with these new EFI bikes, the sky is the limit. Heck, with this tuning software and an EFI kit, a small cheap turbo, and a $1,400 Hawk 250 you could have a turbocharged EFI motorcycle for like $1,700.

The potential is there people. With this free EFI tuning software and cheap Chinese EFI conversion parts I see a world where you could have a cammed, turboed, and tuned $1,400 chinabike making 35hp, and doing so reliably... everything is there we just need to get the community tinkering.

[Skyteamst90]

Originally Posted by Overland Adventure

The download and everything you'd ever want to know is freely downloadable from http://www.motoefi.com/EFI/EFITune.htm
(Make sure you browse in Chrome and let Google automatically translate from Chinese to English)

Replacement EFI units to experiment with that work with this software are available here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3278...rtkey=FnA73Y7z

If we got the ChinaBike community, especially those with experience with performance EFI tuning on cars and/or a dyno, collectively working to create and try out custom fuel maps and tunes, these little 15hp bikes could probably become 20hp bikes just off of a really dialed in tune, and from there you can make even more power by accounting for extra flow from exhaust, headwork, etc.


Long story short these bikes are going to be either tuneable right out of the box, OR can be made tuneable for about $200. With the ability to increase your fuel and timing maps as you make performance enhancements to these bikes, I don't see why these new EFI Chinabikes can't become 23 - 25 hp bikes capable of holding 75 MPH with the right gearing and minimal modification effort. The software is there, the hardware is there, we just need some pioneers such as myself to import the factory EFI tune and simply start tinkering with it.

So many Chinabike guys (and even name brand bike guys) have told me its carburetor or nothing for them, but with the ability to do on the fly tuning with these new EFI bikes, the sky is the limit. Heck, with this tuning software and an EFI kit, a small cheap turbo, and a $1,400 Hawk 250 you could have a turbocharged EFI motorcycle for like $1,700.

The potential is there people. With this free EFI tuning software and cheap Chinese EFI conversion parts I see a world where you could have a cammed, turboed, and tuned $1,400 chinabike making 35hp, and doing so reliably... everything is there we just need to get the community tinkering.

I can share your enthusiasm about the chinese motorcycles, but on 233cc basically disposable motorcycle, most people are not going to upgrade to a turbo. There are threads on here which talk about only getting so much out of a push rod especially one not designed to go over 16hp. I think you might be able to top at 20 or 25 and then it would soon fail. No cooling, poor metals, and other factors would cause a failure.

if you think you can modify it, then more power to you.
But keep in mind, these were not really designed for American use. Someone just saw a niche and marketing opportunity and started to import these. These small bikes have come along way, but they have along way to go.

But in the mean time, we can have some fun along the way.

[NzBrakelathes]

Originally Posted by Overland Adventure

The download and everything you'd ever want to know is freely downloadable from http://www.motoefi.com/EFI/EFITune.htm
(Make sure you browse in Chrome and let Google automatically translate from Chinese to English)

Replacement EFI units to experiment with that work with this software are available here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3278...rtkey=FnA73Y7z

If we got the ChinaBike community, especially those with experience with performance EFI tuning on cars and/or a dyno, collectively working to create and try out custom fuel maps and tunes, these little 15hp bikes could probably become 20hp bikes just off of a really dialed in tune, and from there you can make even more power by accounting for extra flow from exhaust, headwork, etc.


Long story short these bikes are going to be either tuneable right out of the box, OR can be made tuneable for about $200. With the ability to increase your fuel and timing maps as you make performance enhancements to these bikes, I don't see why these new EFI Chinabikes can't become 23 - 25 hp bikes capable of holding 75 MPH with the right gearing and minimal modification effort. The software is there, the hardware is there, we just need some pioneers such as myself to import the factory EFI tune and simply start tinkering with it.

So many Chinabike guys (and even name brand bike guys) have told me its carburetor or nothing for them, but with the ability to do on the fly tuning with these new EFI bikes, the sky is the limit. Heck, with this tuning software and an EFI kit, a small cheap turbo, and a $1,400 Hawk 250 you could have a turbocharged EFI motorcycle for like $1,700.

The potential is there people. With this free EFI tuning software and cheap Chinese EFI conversion parts I see a world where you could have a cammed, turboed, and tuned $1,400 chinabike making 35hp, and doing so reliably... everything is there we just need to get the community tinkering.

Loads of work and cheap China EFI just isn't all that.
KISS is best