Frame mounting.

crackerjac · 04-30-2017, 10:47 PM

I need some opinions on frame mounts. I'm using a Zongshen 250 (232) air cooled motor and a 05 Honda 450X frame for a trail bike build. I was wondering if it would be strong enough to have just the head stay mounted, the two front (red) engine mounts, and the rear lower (blue) mounts mounted to the frame but leave the top rear mount (green) unmounted?

Otherwise I will be doing what others have done and make a C - type bracket for the back mounts that attaches to the rear swingarm pivot bolt. It just wouldn't look as clean.

Weldangrind · 05-01-2017, 01:32 PM

I'd figure out a mount for it, but not because I know better. It would just make me feel good.

crackerjac · 05-01-2017, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

I'd figure out a mount for it, but not because I know better. It would just make me feel good.

Haha, ya I kinda convinced myself a proper mount wouldn't be too hard and considering the amount of rotational torque that can be generated at times in that area it's probably a must.

Weldangrind · 05-01-2017, 01:45 PM

Have you started a thread on this project, other than this one? This is the very kind of project that keeps me awake at night. I have a CR125 / Lifan project on a back burner.

crackerjac · 05-01-2017, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

Have you started a thread on this project, other than this one? This is the very kind of project that keeps me awake at night. I have a CR125 / Lifan project on a back burner.

Just this one so far. Trying to get it all together for this season which has crept up and here pretty much. I'm waiting on parts though, new chain and sprocket due to mounting location differences. Carb spacer that is angled inward rather then out. I had to plastic weld and mod the bottom of the 450X oversized fuel tank to fit the tall Zong OHV head. It's been fun, I'll try and take some pictures as I go and post when it's all together.

Weldangrind · 05-01-2017, 04:20 PM

I'm looking forward to it; the 450X would be a terrific platform.

crackerjac · 05-01-2017, 04:44 PM

It's a great frame to work with. In this case with the engine and frame combo there was no frame cutting required as there is so much room to work with. Motor comes in and out easily. I think it will be a fun trail bike that should go forever with the over sized tank.

BlackBike · 05-01-2017, 10:44 PM

So what happened with the original 450cc engin. Whre did you get the zong overhead engine. It looks like it is used how many miles are on it?

crackerjac · 05-01-2017, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackBike

So what happened with the original 450cc engin. Whre did you get the zong overhead engine. It looks like it is used how many miles are on it?

I aquired the 450x without a motor for cheap and had the Zong 250 in a BSE 2008 bike that was junk but the motor good. Checked out the motor and its soild but will do a complete gasket set and resealed, stuff I have already, before I'm done. I have only a few hundred into it so far. It's more for just the enjoyment of the build.

Weldangrind · 05-02-2017, 12:20 PM

I can't believe those two front motor mounts lined up. Does the head stay line up as well (it's out of frame in the pic)?

Since the motor is likely to be at a different angle than it was designed for, you might need to recalibrate how you check the oil level. The sight glass might not be reliable anymore and the dipstick never was. You could make a mark on the dipstick that represents full at the new angle, with a fresh litre of oil in it. Just thinking out loud.

crackerjac · 05-02-2017, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

I can't believe those two front motor mounts lined up. Does the head stay line up as well (it's out of frame in the pic)?

Since the motor is likely to be at a different angle than it was designed for, you might need to recalibrate how you check the oil level. The sight glass might not be reliable anymore and the dipstick never was. You could make a mark on the dipstick that represents full at the new angle, with a fresh litre of oil in it. Just thinking out loud.

I was surprised that using the stock 450x front mounts the motor lined up perfectly and is level once the bike is on the wheels. The head stay lines up perfect with the mounts on the sides, pretty much in line with them so obvious I'll make a custom mount. It will pretty much be a straight mount across that can be unbolted easily. This ZS169FMM doesn't have a sight glass for the oil, just a dipstick. I'll check all that in the weeks to come.

BlackBike · 05-02-2017, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

I can't believe those two front motor mounts lined up. Does the head stay line up as well (it's out of frame in the pic)?

Since the motor is likely to be at a different angle than it was designed for, you might need to recalibrate how you check the oil level. The sight glass might not be reliable anymore and the dipstick never was. You could make a mark on the dipstick that represents full at the new angle, with a fresh litre of oil in it. Just thinking out loud.

i had that thought about the angle too looking at the pic.

i bet that 450 aluminum chassis will end up weighing as much as one of our china bike steel frames or less with a whole lot more benefits! (it is aluminum, right?)

this is a neat thread, thanks crackerjac for sharing it

crackerjac · 05-02-2017, 02:14 PM

The BSE China bike that the motor was in had very little for a frame. It was not a perimeter style like this one and was made of steel and used the motor as part of the structure.

This bike is obviously ALOT bigger and will weight more in the end I'm sure but still less than an actual 450X water cooled bike. I realize the little 230cc will be under powered but I'm ok with that. With help from here I've re-jetted the carb and changed out sprocket ratios to 14/53. We will see how it goes. I do like that it should have great gas mileage and little maintenance compared to the valve burning Honda motors these came with, lol.

I do like that since it's a common bike structure that parts are available for the rest of it at the local bike shops. All the China stuff I've had to order out of China, if still available, since no one here deals in it.

You're all probably like me and just enjoy the building part though.

Weldangrind · 05-03-2017, 12:01 PM

I admit, I sometimes enjoy building more than riding.

crackerjac · 05-03-2017, 08:21 PM

So I'm going to weld a tab on the frame for the rear lower mount (blue circle) and leave enough space to be able to standwich the bracket mounting top and bottom to swingarm pivot and engine. Thoughts on making the rear pivot bracket out of aluminum rather than steel? If aluminum what do you think the minimum thickness should be? Steel would be easy to make but aluminum would come out cleaner looking like the rest of it, just have to be a beefier design.

05-01-2017, 01:32 PM	#2
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I'd figure out a mount for it, but not because I know better. It would just make me feel good. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-01-2017, 01:45 PM	#4
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Have you started a thread on this project, other than this one? This is the very kind of project that keeps me awake at night. I have a CR125 / Lifan project on a back burner. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-01-2017, 04:20 PM	#6
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I'm looking forward to it; the 450X would be a terrific platform. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-01-2017, 10:44 PM	#8
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	So what happened with the original 450cc engin. Whre did you get the zong overhead engine. It looks like it is used how many miles are on it? __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~
	0

05-02-2017, 12:20 PM	#10
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I can't believe those two front motor mounts lined up. Does the head stay line up as well (it's out of frame in the pic)? Since the motor is likely to be at a different angle than it was designed for, you might need to recalibrate how you check the oil level. The sight glass might not be reliable anymore and the dipstick never was. You could make a mark on the dipstick that represents full at the new angle, with a fresh litre of oil in it. Just thinking out loud. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-01-2017, 04:44 PM	#7
crackerjac Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 103	It's a great frame to work with. In this case with the engine and frame combo there was no frame cutting required as there is so much room to work with. Motor comes in and out easily. I think it will be a fun trail bike that should go forever with the over sized tank.
	0

05-02-2017, 02:14 PM	#13
crackerjac Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 103	The BSE China bike that the motor was in had very little for a frame. It was not a perimeter style like this one and was made of steel and used the motor as part of the structure. This bike is obviously ALOT bigger and will weight more in the end I'm sure but still less than an actual 450X water cooled bike. I realize the little 230cc will be under powered but I'm ok with that. With help from here I've re-jetted the carb and changed out sprocket ratios to 14/53. We will see how it goes. I do like that it should have great gas mileage and little maintenance compared to the valve burning Honda motors these came with, lol. I do like that since it's a common bike structure that parts are available for the rest of it at the local bike shops. All the China stuff I've had to order out of China, if still available, since no one here deals in it. You're all probably like me and just enjoy the building part though.
	1

05-03-2017, 12:01 PM	#14
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I admit, I sometimes enjoy building more than riding. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-03-2017, 08:21 PM	#15
crackerjac Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 103	So I'm going to weld a tab on the frame for the rear lower mount (blue circle) and leave enough space to be able to standwich the bracket mounting top and bottom to swingarm pivot and engine. Thoughts on making the rear pivot bracket out of aluminum rather than steel? If aluminum what do you think the minimum thickness should be? Steel would be easy to make but aluminum would come out cleaner looking like the rest of it, just have to be a beefier design.
	0