RX3 Starter Issue

a_hi · 12-17-2019, 09:30 AM

Here's the deal: the bike I bought had a problem with the starter, which is why the previous owner took it to a mechanic to get it fixed. I saw the mechanic totally disassemble the starter clutch assembly, replace the starter clutch, and put it back together. I was told the piece called the Bendix was okay for now, and should be replaced in 35-40,000km.

The bike had a little trouble starting the last couple days, but was able to start in about a minute. Today, when trying the start the bike (fuel line on, kill switch not engaged, full choke), it just wouldn't turn over. I could hear the starter whirring but not engaging. I checked the battery voltage and it's at 12.40. After trying to start the bike for about 30 min (not continuously, trying a few times then taking a break), the engine finally started when I was testing the battery.

Was this just a coincidence? Should I go back to the mechanic since the starter problem isn't fixed? I don't want to have a problem starting the bike on a daily basis.

What other diagnostics can I do with basic tools and a multimeter?

Thank you!

franque · 12-17-2019, 10:36 AM

If the battery is good, I'd tear into it. They're not too complicated, this is a good video to watch: it's not specifically for an RX3, but the starter motors on almost all motorcycles are basically the same.

Juanro · 12-17-2019, 10:36 AM

The (in)famous starter overriding clutch issue that seems to plague the bikes sold in South America. CSC/USA ones didn't reported as high an incidence of this as ours. If the part the mechanic replaced was only the collar with the pieces held by a spring, and he did NOT replaced or at least polished the holding gear/bush, it's not rare that it failed again fairly soon. No diagnostic can be made from the outside without opening again the right crankcase cover. But is the symptoms you describe are those... whirring noise when pushing the starter button but the engine not turning over, then there's almost no doubt that it's the same problem than before. Low battery symptom is different; clicking or rapid tapping noise from under the seat, where the starter solenoid is located.

a_hi · 12-17-2019, 11:33 AM

I don't really have much of a choice but to start ripping it apart... but, I did check the battery again, and now it's sitting just under 11. Could it really drain that quickly? Testing the battery while pushing the starter button, it's at about 5-6.

Also, just tried starting it again and the bike was really close to turning over, but made a clicking sound then shut off. Should I just go ahead and get a new battery?

I guess I'm the idiot for buying a bike and not thoroughly researching it beforehand, and just finding out now this is an infamous issue. Juanro, you described what happened exactly, the spring collar was replaced, but the holding gear/bush was not. So does this mean the entire starter assembly needs to be replaced to fix this problem? Would I really be able to do anything if I take off the right crankcase cover, without more replacement pieces? Or would it be helpful to still inspect/clean the parts?

How can I check the starter solenoid?

Thanks for the help.

a_hi · 12-17-2019, 11:49 AM

Just checked this (starter relay?) and it's at 10.6

franque · 12-17-2019, 12:31 PM

It sounds like the battery has a dead cell. The easiest way to test the battery would be to try starting the bike, while you have a voltmeter on the battery, and see what the battery voltage drops to when you try to start it. Anything under 11 could cause it to not start, it just depends on the ignition. Anything under 10 almost definitely wouldn't start. I would try all of this with a new battery. Just to check, all grounds are tight?

You can test the function of the starter solenoid by taking a big screwdriver and shorting out (connecting the two terminals covered by rubber in the bottom photo) both sides of the solenoid. If it were me, I'd bump start the bike so that it can charge, and then re-check everything, as it will all be easier to test with a charged battery.

Juanro · 12-17-2019, 01:27 PM

Those battery values are rather low. And the clicking noise also point in that direction. No need to check the starter solenoid. First charge (or change) the battery. Or you can try with some jumper cables from another bike, or better from a car.

a_hi · 12-17-2019, 05:09 PM

Just got a recharge for the battery, but same issue when pushing the ignition button: whirring noise, won't start. I think this narrows it down to being a problem with the starter. Has anyone else had this issue? Were you able to resolve it by taking off the right crankcase cover and inspecting/cleaning the pieces, or did you need replacement parts?

Working_ZS · 12-17-2019, 05:28 PM

I second what others have said about your battery, the voltages are too low. Fully charged is 12.7 volts, 12.4 volts is battery sulfation territory. You need to fully charge to 12.7 volts, then let it sit over night out of the bike and check the voltage again. If it is still 12.7 volts, you're good to put it back in the bike and try and start it. If the voltage is below 12.7 volts after it sits over night, you have a bad battery. How bad will depend upon how low the voltage is, but it will still be bad, in which case it will be time to replace it with a new one.

Working_ZS · 12-17-2019, 05:32 PM

Another thing to check is voltage at the starter relay, with a known good battery (12.7 volts minimum) installed. It should be close to battery voltage, if it isn't, check you primary battery leads and terminals for corrosion and high resistance.

Juanro · 12-17-2019, 05:38 PM

If the override clutch is sliping, no cleaning will solve it.

**JerryHawk250** · 12-17-2019, 05:48 PM

Sounds like the starter clutch needs replacing if the starter is turning and no engaging. Check on CSC's website. I think there are two different styles for the RX3.

a_hi · 12-18-2019, 08:05 AM

Let the battery sit out after being fully charged yesterday evening and it's sitting at 12.41. Damn, hope I can find a new battery here. Once I track down a new battery, if the bike still doesn't run, does anyone know the availability of ordering starter clutch parts to Argentina? :/

Juanro · 12-18-2019, 11:25 AM

Are you in Argentina right now? There are many levels of qualities and parts to replace, depending on your Budget and how badly (if any) damaged is the sliding Surface of the plate gear Assy (part #16: https://store.cscmotorcycles.com/PLA...-p/z19-115.htm). In Buenos Aires en nearby cities there are also a few mechanics who know this bike well. If you use Facebook you can join our group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/touring250/) and take a look around or ask there.

a_hi · 12-18-2019, 12:51 PM

Hi Juanro, yes I'm currently in Cafayete. Unsure if I should try to hitch a ride with the bike back to Salta, or stay here and have a mechanic look at it. I doubt they will have parts in stock, so it might be a waste to take the bike apart here.

Got a new battery and installed it on the bike, but still no luck. The voltage of the new Bosch one was only 12.15 anyways.

I really just want a bike that runs.

Just requested to join the FB group, thanks for the invite.

12-17-2019, 05:48 PM	#12
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,552	Sounds like the starter clutch needs replacing if the starter is turning and no engaging. Check on CSC's website. I think there are two different styles for the RX3. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
	0

12-17-2019, 09:30 AM	#1
a_hi Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 18	RX3 Starter Issue Here's the deal: the bike I bought had a problem with the starter, which is why the previous owner took it to a mechanic to get it fixed. I saw the mechanic totally disassemble the starter clutch assembly, replace the starter clutch, and put it back together. I was told the piece called the Bendix was okay for now, and should be replaced in 35-40,000km. The bike had a little trouble starting the last couple days, but was able to start in about a minute. Today, when trying the start the bike (fuel line on, kill switch not engaged, full choke), it just wouldn't turn over. I could hear the starter whirring but not engaging. I checked the battery voltage and it's at 12.40. After trying to start the bike for about 30 min (not continuously, trying a few times then taking a break), the engine finally started when I was testing the battery. Was this just a coincidence? Should I go back to the mechanic since the starter problem isn't fixed? I don't want to have a problem starting the bike on a daily basis. What other diagnostics can I do with basic tools and a multimeter? Thank you!
	0

12-17-2019, 10:36 AM	#2
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	If the battery is good, I'd tear into it. They're not too complicated, this is a good video to watch: it's not specifically for an RX3, but the starter motors on almost all motorcycles are basically the same.
	2

12-17-2019, 10:36 AM	#3
Juanro Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 321	The (in)famous starter overriding clutch issue that seems to plague the bikes sold in South America. CSC/USA ones didn't reported as high an incidence of this as ours. If the part the mechanic replaced was only the collar with the pieces held by a spring, and he did NOT replaced or at least polished the holding gear/bush, it's not rare that it failed again fairly soon. No diagnostic can be made from the outside without opening again the right crankcase cover. But is the symptoms you describe are those... whirring noise when pushing the starter button but the engine not turning over, then there's almost no doubt that it's the same problem than before. Low battery symptom is different; clicking or rapid tapping noise from under the seat, where the starter solenoid is located.
	1

12-17-2019, 11:33 AM	#4
a_hi Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 18	I don't really have much of a choice but to start ripping it apart... but, I did check the battery again, and now it's sitting just under 11. Could it really drain that quickly? Testing the battery while pushing the starter button, it's at about 5-6. Also, just tried starting it again and the bike was really close to turning over, but made a clicking sound then shut off. Should I just go ahead and get a new battery? I guess I'm the idiot for buying a bike and not thoroughly researching it beforehand, and just finding out now this is an infamous issue. Juanro, you described what happened exactly, the spring collar was replaced, but the holding gear/bush was not. So does this mean the entire starter assembly needs to be replaced to fix this problem? Would I really be able to do anything if I take off the right crankcase cover, without more replacement pieces? Or would it be helpful to still inspect/clean the parts? How can I check the starter solenoid? Thanks for the help.
	0

12-17-2019, 12:31 PM	#6
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	It sounds like the battery has a dead cell. The easiest way to test the battery would be to try starting the bike, while you have a voltmeter on the battery, and see what the battery voltage drops to when you try to start it. Anything under 11 could cause it to not start, it just depends on the ignition. Anything under 10 almost definitely wouldn't start. I would try all of this with a new battery. Just to check, all grounds are tight? You can test the function of the starter solenoid by taking a big screwdriver and shorting out (connecting the two terminals covered by rubber in the bottom photo) both sides of the solenoid. If it were me, I'd bump start the bike so that it can charge, and then re-check everything, as it will all be easier to test with a charged battery.
	0

12-17-2019, 01:27 PM	#7
Juanro Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 321	Those battery values are rather low. And the clicking noise also point in that direction. No need to check the starter solenoid. First charge (or change) the battery. Or you can try with some jumper cables from another bike, or better from a car.
	0

12-17-2019, 05:09 PM	#8
a_hi Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 18	Just got a recharge for the battery, but same issue when pushing the ignition button: whirring noise, won't start. I think this narrows it down to being a problem with the starter. Has anyone else had this issue? Were you able to resolve it by taking off the right crankcase cover and inspecting/cleaning the pieces, or did you need replacement parts?
	0

12-17-2019, 05:28 PM	#9
Working_ZS Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 365	I second what others have said about your battery, the voltages are too low. Fully charged is 12.7 volts, 12.4 volts is battery sulfation territory. You need to fully charge to 12.7 volts, then let it sit over night out of the bike and check the voltage again. If it is still 12.7 volts, you're good to put it back in the bike and try and start it. If the voltage is below 12.7 volts after it sits over night, you have a bad battery. How bad will depend upon how low the voltage is, but it will still be bad, in which case it will be time to replace it with a new one.
	0

12-17-2019, 05:32 PM	#10
Working_ZS Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 365	Another thing to check is voltage at the starter relay, with a known good battery (12.7 volts minimum) installed. It should be close to battery voltage, if it isn't, check you primary battery leads and terminals for corrosion and high resistance.
	0

12-17-2019, 05:38 PM	#11
Juanro Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 321	If the override clutch is sliping, no cleaning will solve it.
	0

12-18-2019, 08:05 AM	#13
a_hi Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 18	Let the battery sit out after being fully charged yesterday evening and it's sitting at 12.41. Damn, hope I can find a new battery here. Once I track down a new battery, if the bike still doesn't run, does anyone know the availability of ordering starter clutch parts to Argentina? :/
	0

12-18-2019, 11:25 AM	#14
Juanro Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 321	Are you in Argentina right now? There are many levels of qualities and parts to replace, depending on your Budget and how badly (if any) damaged is the sliding Surface of the plate gear Assy (part #16: https://store.cscmotorcycles.com/PLA...-p/z19-115.htm). In Buenos Aires en nearby cities there are also a few mechanics who know this bike well. If you use Facebook you can join our group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/touring250/) and take a look around or ask there.
	0

12-18-2019, 12:51 PM	#15
a_hi Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 18	Hi Juanro, yes I'm currently in Cafayete. Unsure if I should try to hitch a ride with the bike back to Salta, or stay here and have a mechanic look at it. I doubt they will have parts in stock, so it might be a waste to take the bike apart here. Got a new battery and installed it on the bike, but still no luck. The voltage of the new Bosch one was only 12.15 anyways. I really just want a bike that runs. Just requested to join the FB group, thanks for the invite.
	0