santa clause is coming to town and he needs help - Page 2

duck9191 · 12-23-2020, 03:46 PM

take the nut off the flywheel and check the key, maybe it sheared when it died on the hill. Try some ether and see if it will at least pop. You can check the valve timing pretty easy, take the cam cap off and look at the timing mark on the flywheel.

miatawnt2b · 12-23-2020, 04:02 PM

should I be able to turn the flywheel by hand? I'm not sure how much compression these are supposed to have.
I do know that the cam rotates when I spin the flywheel, so I don't think the keyway is sheered completely.

duck9191 · 12-23-2020, 04:10 PM

there should be resistance at least when turning the engine over. Normally when the key shears it will still look and operate normally but it will throw the ignition timing off due to the shift of the trigger coil

miatawnt2b · 12-23-2020, 04:27 PM

I'll probably have to dig in more later this evening. Kids are back from the grandparents and the quads are hidden away. I'll have to verify visually the valve timing with the flywheel. I have to be honest I did have a hard time using the .005 feeler gauge with the limited access of the round plugs. I attempted a few times to where I thought the gauge was between the tappet and the valve. I thought maybe that I wasn't really getting a good feel on the gauge, so one time I backed the adjuster out until I got a good rattle on the rocker. Then by hand I turned in the adjuster until I felt pressure against the valve, backed it out about 1/16 turn and set the locknut.

I do need to actually verify the timing though. gotta pull the main valve cover off so I can see the cam gear mark.

Emerikol · 12-23-2020, 05:40 PM

The pickup coil may be bad. That’s the only thing left, but testing it requires pulling the side cover. You can try to ohm it out, but I have had more than my fair share of coils fail and still ohm out within specs.

miatawnt2b · 12-23-2020, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emerikol

The pickup coil may be bad. That’s the only thing left, but testing it requires pulling the side cover. You can try to ohm it out, but I have had more than my fair share of coils fail and still ohm out within specs.

nope, swapped the pickup when I swapped the stator. Everything comes off in the cover so it swapped as a working unit. My particular engine has the 6 coil stator assembly.

I know the only thing left is compression, and it was really the thing I thought for sure couldn't be an issue given the engine was running fine then quit without any catastrophic sounds. I'm going to set the motor to tdc, pull the spark plug and shoot some compressed air in the hole. That should tell me if I have compression or if air is leaking out the intake/exhaust or bottom end. (obviously have to take the oil fill plug out as well)

If I am getting no compression it makes me wonder if I floated a valve and "WHAM!"

-J

miatawnt2b · 12-23-2020, 11:42 PM

OK. I have a compression issue. I pulled the inspection plug on the flywheel cover and spun the crank counter-clockwise until I see the "T"

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jGsAycK3Q6nGTQ6y8
Then I verify I'm at TDC from the cam gear

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Yvo5kg2BPyGywYqQA

I pulled the spark plug and the oil fill, and shoot compressed air into the spark plug hole. I get air shooting out of the carb.

Then I rotate the crank 1 full turn. Again displaying "T" in the inspection port at the top of the flywheel cover.
The cam sprocket looks like this.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zKRyzirziu65yfco8

Now I get air out of the exhaust & carb.

So... I think I have a problem. Any thoughts?
Without taking the top end apart, I think the intake valve is likely bent for reasons unknown. Just to prove to myself it wasn't an adjustment issue, I backed the valve adjuster all the way out so the valve can't close any further. Still air out the carb.

Emerikol · 12-24-2020, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miatawnt2b

So... I think I have a problem. Any thoughts?

I think the head is going to need to come off. It's possible that the seat detached from the head, but a bent valve seems more likely. If it's just the seat, you should be able to press is back into place and peen the soft aluminum of the head back around it. If it winds up being a bent valve, you may be able to carefully straighten it back out, provided the face and sealing surfaces aren't totally wrecked. Sounds like you've got a bit of a holiday project. Merry Christmas, let us know how it turns out.

miatawnt2b · 12-24-2020, 08:36 AM

Ordered a new complete head on amazon. 1 day delivery. $47.

I'm hoping I can get it on with the motor in the quad.

Thanks again everyone for your help so far
-J

**JerryHawk250** · 12-24-2020, 08:41 AM

Contact the deal as it should be covered by the warranty.

miatawnt2b · 12-24-2020, 09:21 AM

Yea, I am a little annoyed at the responsiveness of the dealer. I've tried contacting them the past 2 days and no call back. I understand it's the holiday, and they are likely buried, so I haven't blown them up on this forum... yet.

I wanted to try and get this working for tomorrow, so for less than $50, it's worth it at this point if I can make that happen.

I'll work on getting a replacement from the dealer after christmas if this works out and have one on the shelf as insurance.

miatawnt2b · 12-25-2020, 01:37 AM

Christmas is saved. The head arrived around 8. Started working on it a little after 9, by 11 it was running.

The piston slapped the valve, put several marks in the piston that I was able to smooth out with a dremel. I had to remove the top engine mounting bolt and lift the engine about 3/4 of an inch in order to gain enough room to remove the head. I'm pretty happy I didn't have to take out the motor.

Pretty pissed at the dealer. Not even a phone call today. Good thing I know my way around engines.

I'm just happy we'll have 3 happy kids instead of 2 happy and 1 disappointed.
I am planning on bringing the other two in the shop tomorrow before they turn them on and adjust the valves on them.

-J

duck9191 · 12-25-2020, 08:15 AM

Guessing those valves were real tight then. Did you lash the other ones?

tknj99 · 12-25-2020, 09:20 AM

Glad it worked out well! Sadly there are not many dealers that provide good basic after sale support or stand solidly behind the warranty they like to highlight in the ads.

Darth Racer · 12-25-2020, 09:36 AM

Glad to hear you got it sorted out miatawn2b. This was the worst case scenario I was trying to warn you about with waiting till Christmas morning to put them together. You managed to pull it all off in the St Nick of time..... good stuff.

Did you ever get the FNR issue fixed?

12-23-2020, 03:46 PM	#16
duck9191 Join Date: May 2019 Location: Port Huron, Michigan Posts: 637	take the nut off the flywheel and check the key, maybe it sheared when it died on the hill. Try some ether and see if it will at least pop. You can check the valve timing pretty easy, take the cam cap off and look at the timing mark on the flywheel. __________________ 2020 Triumph Tiger 900 rally. 2018 Bashan Storm 250. pz30b, digital cluster + gear indicator, unifilter and car customs full exhaust. 2019 Taotao 110b boulder atv. The "arm breaker" lol 2007 Honda VTX 1300R. 1974 Suzuki tm125, work in progress 2001 Suzuki Drz 400s.
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12-23-2020, 04:10 PM	#18
duck9191 Join Date: May 2019 Location: Port Huron, Michigan Posts: 637	there should be resistance at least when turning the engine over. Normally when the key shears it will still look and operate normally but it will throw the ignition timing off due to the shift of the trigger coil __________________ 2020 Triumph Tiger 900 rally. 2018 Bashan Storm 250. pz30b, digital cluster + gear indicator, unifilter and car customs full exhaust. 2019 Taotao 110b boulder atv. The "arm breaker" lol 2007 Honda VTX 1300R. 1974 Suzuki tm125, work in progress 2001 Suzuki Drz 400s.
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12-23-2020, 05:40 PM	#20
Emerikol Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Carrollton, GA Posts: 1,465	The pickup coil may be bad. That’s the only thing left, but testing it requires pulling the side cover. You can try to ohm it out, but I have had more than my fair share of coils fail and still ohm out within specs. __________________ First Rule of Aviation: -Never Pass Up The Opportunity to Pee I was struggling to get my wife's attention; I sat down on the couch and looked comfortable. That did the trick! My wife says I only have two faults. I don't listen and something else... If at first you don't succeed, try doing it the way I told you to... The Stable: 2005 Yamaha V-Star 650 - SOLD 2015 Suzuki DR 650 2015 RPS Hawk 250 - SOLD 2016 Ural Gear Up
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12-23-2020, 11:42 PM	#22
miatawnt2b Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 78	OK. I have a compression issue. I pulled the inspection plug on the flywheel cover and spun the crank counter-clockwise until I see the "T" https://photos.app.goo.gl/jGsAycK3Q6nGTQ6y8 Then I verify I'm at TDC from the cam gear https://photos.app.goo.gl/Yvo5kg2BPyGywYqQA I pulled the spark plug and the oil fill, and shoot compressed air into the spark plug hole. I get air shooting out of the carb. Then I rotate the crank 1 full turn. Again displaying "T" in the inspection port at the top of the flywheel cover. The cam sprocket looks like this. https://photos.app.goo.gl/zKRyzirziu65yfco8 Now I get air out of the exhaust & carb. So... I think I have a problem. Any thoughts? Without taking the top end apart, I think the intake valve is likely bent for reasons unknown. Just to prove to myself it wasn't an adjustment issue, I backed the valve adjuster all the way out so the valve can't close any further. Still air out the carb. Last edited by miatawnt2b; 12-24-2020 at 01:25 AM.
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12-24-2020, 08:41 AM	#25
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,551	Contact the deal as it should be covered by the warranty. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
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12-23-2020, 04:02 PM	#17
miatawnt2b Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 78	should I be able to turn the flywheel by hand? I'm not sure how much compression these are supposed to have. I do know that the cam rotates when I spin the flywheel, so I don't think the keyway is sheered completely.
	0

12-23-2020, 04:27 PM	#19
miatawnt2b Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 78	I'll probably have to dig in more later this evening. Kids are back from the grandparents and the quads are hidden away. I'll have to verify visually the valve timing with the flywheel. I have to be honest I did have a hard time using the .005 feeler gauge with the limited access of the round plugs. I attempted a few times to where I thought the gauge was between the tappet and the valve. I thought maybe that I wasn't really getting a good feel on the gauge, so one time I backed the adjuster out until I got a good rattle on the rocker. Then by hand I turned in the adjuster until I felt pressure against the valve, backed it out about 1/16 turn and set the locknut. I do need to actually verify the timing though. gotta pull the main valve cover off so I can see the cam gear mark.
	0

12-24-2020, 08:36 AM	#24
miatawnt2b Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 78	Ordered a new complete head on amazon. 1 day delivery. $47. I'm hoping I can get it on with the motor in the quad. Thanks again everyone for your help so far -J
	1

12-24-2020, 09:21 AM	#26
miatawnt2b Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 78	Yea, I am a little annoyed at the responsiveness of the dealer. I've tried contacting them the past 2 days and no call back. I understand it's the holiday, and they are likely buried, so I haven't blown them up on this forum... yet. I wanted to try and get this working for tomorrow, so for less than $50, it's worth it at this point if I can make that happen. I'll work on getting a replacement from the dealer after christmas if this works out and have one on the shelf as insurance.
	0

12-25-2020, 01:37 AM	#27
miatawnt2b Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 78	Christmas is saved. The head arrived around 8. Started working on it a little after 9, by 11 it was running. The piston slapped the valve, put several marks in the piston that I was able to smooth out with a dremel. I had to remove the top engine mounting bolt and lift the engine about 3/4 of an inch in order to gain enough room to remove the head. I'm pretty happy I didn't have to take out the motor. Pretty pissed at the dealer. Not even a phone call today. Good thing I know my way around engines. I'm just happy we'll have 3 happy kids instead of 2 happy and 1 disappointed. I am planning on bringing the other two in the shop tomorrow before they turn them on and adjust the valves on them. -J
	3

12-25-2020, 08:15 AM	#28
duck9191 Join Date: May 2019 Location: Port Huron, Michigan Posts: 637	Guessing those valves were real tight then. Did you lash the other ones? __________________ 2020 Triumph Tiger 900 rally. 2018 Bashan Storm 250. pz30b, digital cluster + gear indicator, unifilter and car customs full exhaust. 2019 Taotao 110b boulder atv. The "arm breaker" lol 2007 Honda VTX 1300R. 1974 Suzuki tm125, work in progress 2001 Suzuki Drz 400s.
	1

12-25-2020, 09:20 AM	#29
tknj99 Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Central VA Posts: 1,250	Glad it worked out well! Sadly there are not many dealers that provide good basic after sale support or stand solidly behind the warranty they like to highlight in the ads. __________________ 2024 Zuma Storm 150 DLX 2019 Beta 430 RRS 2017 Honda Fury Former China Bikes: Tao DBX1, Brozz 250, CSC RX4, Titan DLX, Templar X
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12-25-2020, 09:36 AM	#30
Darth Racer Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: MD Posts: 558	Glad to hear you got it sorted out miatawn2b. This was the worst case scenario I was trying to warn you about with waiting till Christmas morning to put them together. You managed to pull it all off in the St Nick of time..... good stuff. Did you ever get the FNR issue fixed?
	1