Concerns with buying a China bike

[emt1581]

I've had the itch to buy a Lifan/Hawk/etc. for YEARS because they are so cheap (despite recent price increases).

What historically held me back was the poor quality when looking at parts/assembly. However, that seems to have improved dramatically in the past year or two.

Right now my problems are:

1. No one within 50 miles will work on them.

2. Mechanics that are willing to try tell me it's very hard to find parts after a year or so of any given model coming out. I was told they might make certain parts for a 2022 model for a year or two and then the parts dry up and have to be custom made.

So really the lack of support is what is causing me to hesitate. At the same time, aside from needing to pull the engine or work on a transmission, I pretty much do all of my own work on my current bike (1986 VS700). Brakes, fork seals, oil change, battery, clutch cable/fluid, etc. I've rarely needed any mechanic to help. But again, I'm stuck if it would come to that point.

I'm curious what advice the community has on the issue of support for these?

Thanks!!

[Sport Rider]

first, don't buy one if you don't work on them yourself. not worth it and these things do need routine attention to keep them in good condition.

Second, there are plenty of parts. your mechanics don't have a clue.

the only brand I would recommend to you would be CSC. their quality control coming out of China is higher than average. while they only have one location in Cali, their service staff are pretty good at helping out over the phone.

[emt1581]

Originally Posted by Sport Rider

first, don't buy one if you don't work on them yourself. not worth it and these things do need routine attention to keep them in good condition.

Second, there are plenty of parts. your mechanics don't have a clue.

the only brand I would recommend to you would be CSC. their quality control coming out of China is higher than average. while they only have one location in Cali, their service staff are pretty good at helping out over the phone.

As I said, I do work on the bike myself currently. However, what kind of work do these "routinely" require?

Also, I know this was in the dual forum and I would love one (and have had that itch for 20yrs) but I'm currently eyeing up a Lifan KP 150 mini....or anything that competes with the Honda Grom.\

EDIT: Come to think of it, if no bike will fit in the rear of my 2016 Sorento and I'm using a hitch carrier anyway....what dual sport china bikes might have a seat height that would work for someone with a 29" inseam???

Thanks

[Ursa_Adv]

Originally Posted by emt1581

As I said, I do work on the bike myself currently. However, what kind of work do these "routinely" require?

TLDR: You got this. If you can afford it and you want one: Get it.

Non-TLDR:

Depends on the model/engine, but honestly it's more about preventative maintenance.

If you've been working on your bikes, then you know when something starts to feel "off" and needs adjustment/review. Out of the box, take your time. Go over it. If you think something could use tightening or loctite or maybe a better quality bolt from Ace Hardware....do it. You won't regret it.

I feel like a lot of the concern is that these bikes, is that it will leave you stranded or fall apart under you. Like all things, they could, but probably won't.

A KTM could pack up the fuel pump halfway across that isolated bit of Idaho. A Honda could kill your battery because your external lighting was pulling too much power 2 hours from the trailhead.

80% of the problems I've encountered were self inflicted. The other 19% are things I knew about, but failed to check. 1% was a bolt hole that got dugaduga'd into oblivion during assembly.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by emt1581

I've had the itch to buy a Lifan/Hawk/etc. for YEARS because they are so cheap (despite recent price increases).

What historically held me back was the poor quality when looking at parts/assembly. However, that seems to have improved dramatically in the past year or two.

Right now my problems are:


2. Mechanics that are willing to try tell me it's very hard to find parts after a year or so of any given model coming out. I was told they might make certain parts for a 2022 model for a year or two and then the parts dry up and have to be custom made.

Things like plastic panels may be hard to find for older models that they stopped producing, like the GY200 bikes, but most of the Hawk and Hawk-like bike parts are relatively easy to find and have been for years. Even then, many of the parts used on these bikes are also very universal in nature.

It really comes down to the bike in question. The Hawk and it's brothers like the TT250, Brozz, etc. have been around for a few years and almost all of the parts are easily available, interchangeable, or easily adapted from another bike. If you buy something more obscure, that is where you will start to run into more issues with sourcing parts.

As mentioned by Sport Rider, CSC in particular is the best company to work with in terms of support and parts. In availability, quality, AND pricing. I have used several TT250 parts for my Hawk because of those factors.

[markerdown]

The quality on these bikes is improving. If you have doubts, the Honda CRF 300L is still reasonably priced, and backed by hondas extensive service. Ya just gotta save up more cash or finance

[ChopperCharles]

The problem is we have three classes of Chinese motorcycles in the USA.

The first is the 1st gen bikes. These are 1960s tech, quality control, and metallurgy at best. This is your average hawk, pit bike, or pep boys/tractor supply motorcycle. These have been sold in the USA since at least the mid 2000s, and they haven't changed much in all that time. The quality may have gotten slightly better, but only by a small amount. These bikes will require the same kind of elevated maintenance and repairs that a 1960s motorcycle would. That's not saying they're terrible machines by any means, but what you're getting for that cheap money is a 1960s equivalent machine.

Then around 2015-2017 the second generation bikes started appearing. These had noticeably better fit and finish, better metallurgy, and were far more reliable. These bikes were also more expensive, but not that much. This would include the CSC TT250, CSC RX3, CSC SG250, SSR Buccaneer 250 (XV250 motor), SSR XF250 (TU250 motor), SR450S (CRF450 motor) and Genuine G400C (XR400 motor), to name a few. These bikes had far fewer quality control issues. Generally they were reliable, but supplied with cheap running gear. The Buccaneer for instance came with LED turn signals that were poorly designed, and they'd vibrate and rattle apart. The RX3 had a run of bad heads, but for the most part they're completely reliable machines (unless you're one of the unlucky few). The SR450 likes to pull spokes through the rim if you abuse it jumping too much. These bikes are late 70s to early 80s quality motorcycles. They require far less maintenance than 1960s motorcycles, but they still require a relatively high level compared to japanese bikes of today. Stuff still breaks on them, but it's usually not critical parts.

In 2020 we started to get 3rd generation Chinese bikes here in the states. This includes bikes from Benelli, the CSC RX4 and CSC SG400, CFMoto's lineup, and the new Husky Norden. These bikes are by and large equal to current Japanese motorcycles in fit, finish, metallurgy, performance, features, and reliability. They are also far more expensive, with prices more closely matching their Japanese competition. A great many of these have Chinese designed motors, and are not copies of anything. (SG400, RX4, everything made by Benelli, etc).

Even though it's 2022 now and you can buy a 3rd generation ultra-reliable Chinese bike, the fact is you can also still by the 1st gen off of amazon or 2nd gen bikes from CSC, SSR, or Genuine. This makes it confusing, because we can't just lump all chinese bikes together. We have to start talking about brands and models to get specific about quality.

So, what you need to decide is how much you want to pay for the level of reliability, performance, and dealer service you desire.


As an aside... what really strikes me is that China was stuck at 1960s tech for decades, content not to make any progress. And then suddenly they got motivated and advanced to 1970s/1980s land seemingly overnight. Five years later and they are making bikes equal to Mr. Honda. Basically in under ten years the Chinese jumped 6 decades ahead in motorcycle manufacturing technology. That's astounding! Chinese bikes are going to take the world by storm, mark my words!


Charles.

[emt1581]

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

The problem is we have three classes of Chinese motorcycles in the USA.

The first is the 1st gen bikes. These are 1960s tech, quality control, and metallurgy at best. This is your average hawk, pit bike, or pep boys/tractor supply motorcycle. These have been sold in the USA since at least the mid 2000s, and they haven't changed much in all that time. The quality may have gotten slightly better, but only by a small amount. These bikes will require the same kind of elevated maintenance and repairs that a 1960s motorcycle would. That's not saying they're terrible machines by any means, but what you're getting for that cheap money is a 1960s equivalent machine.

Then around 2015-2017 the second generation bikes started appearing. These had noticeably better fit and finish, better metallurgy, and were far more reliable. These bikes were also more expensive, but not that much. This would include the CSC TT250, CSC RX3, CSC SG250, SSR Buccaneer 250 (XV250 motor), SSR XF250 (TU250 motor), SR450S (CRF450 motor) and Genuine G400C (XR400 motor), to name a few. These bikes had far fewer quality control issues. Generally they were reliable, but supplied with cheap running gear. The Buccaneer for instance came with LED turn signals that were poorly designed, and they'd vibrate and rattle apart. The RX3 had a run of bad heads, but for the most part they're completely reliable machines (unless you're one of the unlucky few). The SR450 likes to pull spokes through the rim if you abuse it jumping too much. These bikes are late 70s to early 80s quality motorcycles. They require far less maintenance than 1960s motorcycles, but they still require a relatively high level compared to japanese bikes of today. Stuff still breaks on them, but it's usually not critical parts.

In 2020 we started to get 3rd generation Chinese bikes here in the states. This includes bikes from Benelli, the CSC RX4 and CSC SG400, CFMoto's lineup, and the new Husky Norden. These bikes are by and large equal to current Japanese motorcycles in fit, finish, metallurgy, performance, features, and reliability. They are also far more expensive, with prices more closely matching their Japanese competition. A great many of these have Chinese designed motors, and are not copies of anything. (SG400, RX4, everything made by Benelli, etc).

Even though it's 2022 now and you can buy a 3rd generation ultra-reliable Chinese bike, the fact is you can also still by the 1st gen off of amazon or 2nd gen bikes from CSC, SSR, or Genuine. This makes it confusing, because we can't just lump all chinese bikes together. We have to start talking about brands and models to get specific about quality.

So, what you need to decide is how much you want to pay for the level of reliability, performance, and dealer service you desire.


As an aside... what really strikes me is that China was stuck at 1960s tech for decades, content not to make any progress. And then suddenly they got motivated and advanced to 1970s/1980s land seemingly overnight. Five years later and they are making bikes equal to Mr. Honda. Basically in under ten years the Chinese jumped 6 decades ahead in motorcycle manufacturing technology. That's astounding! Chinese bikes are going to take the world by storm, mark my words!


Charles.

Interesting reply. Seems like the Lifan KP 150 mini I'm looking at is 1st or 2nd Gen tech. However, a few months ago I was comparing the Grom, Z125 and Benelli.

But at the end of the day all gens of China bikes still have the same issue....no repair options near me. So the choice still comes down to: Do I pay $2200 and roll the dice on a China bike or pay $5500 for a Grom?

Not sure anyone saw the question but I am curious if there are any dual sport China bike options for someone with a 29" inseam?

Thanks!!

[Magician16]

I have a 29" inseam, and I have both a Magician and a Bashan Storm. I've found both to be reliable transportation, after a bit of work. I started out on 60's Yamaha's and I think both these bikes are far superior to those late 60's Yamahas.

[Boatguy]

Originally Posted by emt1581

Interesting reply. Seems like the Lifan KP 150 mini I'm looking at is 1st or 2nd Gen tech. However, a few months ago I was comparing the Grom, Z125 and Benelli.

But at the end of the day all gens of China bikes still have the same issue....no repair options near me. So the choice still comes down to: Do I pay $2200 and roll the dice on a China bike or pay $5500 for a Grom?

Not sure anyone saw the question but I am curious if there are any dual sport China bike options for someone with a 29" inseam?

Thanks!!

Math:

For the price you are going to pay for the Grom plus one problem worked on by someone in a motorcycle shop, you can just buy second China bike if you have a mechanical failure.


Hell, I wasn’t even correct. You can just buy a couple of China bikes instead of the grom. Keep one wrapped in plastic and use it when the other one breaks. That would still cost you less money than a grom. And then, when the grom needs work, you are in deep. You could get a third China bike probably.

[emt1581]

Originally Posted by Boatguy

Math:

For the price you are going to pay for the Grom plus one problem worked on by someone in a motorcycle shop, you can just buy second China bike if you have a mechanical failure.


Hell, I wasn’t even correct. You can just buy a couple of China bikes instead of the grom. Keep one wrapped in plastic and use it when the other one breaks. That would still cost you less money than a grom. And then, when the grom needs work, you are in deep. You could get a third China bike probably.

You do have a point. And this is one of the only reasons I was considering a China bike.....DIRT cheap!!

Looked up the current version of your bike. That's an impressive bike for the money!! How do you like it? Have you had any issues? What care/maintenance does it need?

32" seat, fuel injected, under 300lbs gross, 2 year warranty on the powertrain, 1 up capable, off road capable......I could run errands, strap it to my trailer hitch motorcycle carrier for vacations, and the carbs wouldn't get gunked up over time (since fuel injected....it has no carbs).

EDIT: And it's got a kick start!! Always wanted a bike with a kick start for times when the battery dies.

....tempting for $2500 OTD!!

[Britt]

"...tempting for $2500 OTD!! "

How about under $2100 for that bike?? ( https://www.powersportsmax.com/produ...ducts_id/22137 )

My daughter rides one of these. She's 5'7" and loves it. While it's certainly not built for the highway, I'd highly recommend the LIfan Xpect for any other casual use.

[Boatguy]

Originally Posted by emt1581

You do have a point. And this is one of the only reasons I was considering a China bike.....DIRT cheap!!

Looked up the current version of your bike. That's an impressive bike for the money!! How do you like it? Have you had any issues? What care/maintenance does it need?

32" seat, fuel injected, under 300lbs gross, 2 year warranty on the powertrain, 1 up capable, off road capable......I could run errands, strap it to my trailer hitch motorcycle carrier for vacations, and the carbs wouldn't get gunked up over time (since fuel injected....it has no carbs).

EDIT: And it's got a kick start!! Always wanted a bike with a kick start for times when the battery dies.

....tempting for $2500 OTD!!

So, I got mine on Amazon from Moto-Pro. I think it was a little under $2000. Maybe some delivery fee. It comes in a metal framed crate. It’s fully assembled and ready to go. All you have to do is put the handlebars on and the blinker switches and whatever and the throttle. That was the trickiest part the throttle. It wasn’t obvious that it wind up both forward and backward. I put mine on backwards the first time since that’s how it was shipped.. Change oil too.

On my bike, 2020, there was only one design problem. There was an improperly shielded wire loom near the headlight area. They didn’t extend the conduit all the way up into the headlight area. They should have. That grounded my bike out and caused me a lot of grief for a little bit. Once fixed with some electrical tape and conduit, everything was fine. This problem does not exist in bikes newer than 2020 they fixed it.

I’m at something like 5000 miles and I haven’t had anything go wrong yet. I dropped it on a trail in Colorado. I also dropped it in the sand several times trying to lear to ride deep sand. No effect from any of that. Just keeps going.


The care and maintenance I have done so far consists of tightening the chain and changing the oil. That’s it. I have done nothing else. And that was kind of my thing on the forum and still is. I wanted to see how far one of these would go just out of the box. Getting close to 5000 miles now. I rode it all over the place. Mountains, dirt, deep sand, tar, mud, you name it. It’s been everywhere. The EFI is what makes it great. It just goes and goes. Like a Toyota car.

However, I am slightly over the 4000 mile service interval. Sometime in the next few weeks I will be doing a valve check, replacing the front and rear sprockets and chain. Putting on a new set of tires. Going over everything and generally visually checking wiring and stuff like that to see if anything is rubbing. Also will be checking all of the bearings and greasing things up. Just generally normal maintenance at scheduled intervals. And this is the first maintenance I have done at all.

I don’t even think this is necessary, but I am just being extra careful and I am going on some really good rides in August. Planning to do the NEBDR adventure route and into Canada.

I wouldn’t hesitate to take this thing on the TAT completely stock.

[ExMxer]

Originally Posted by emt1581

You do have a point. And this is one of the only reasons I was considering a China bike.....DIRT cheap!!

Looked up the current version of your bike. That's an impressive bike for the money!! How do you like it? Have you had any issues? What care/maintenance does it need?

32" seat, fuel injected, under 300lbs gross, 2 year warranty on the powertrain, 1 up capable, off road capable......I could run errands, strap it to my trailer hitch motorcycle carrier for vacations, and the carbs wouldn't get gunked up over time (since fuel injected....it has no carbs).

EDIT: And it's got a kick start!! Always wanted a bike with a kick start for times when the battery dies.

....tempting for $2500 OTD!!

I just got a 2nd Xpect last week. I bought this one from my local dealer, and he delivered it fully assembled, for 2300. He even takes the time to Loctite many of the bolts, marking them along the way to verify where he had been. I say this is my second Xpect, because my first one I didn't put 500 miles on, and it was "taken" by my Son to use at college....and likely I'll never see it in my garage again.
With him, he has the mechanical skillset of an average toddler, and this bike has never once given him an ounce of trouble in 2 years. He does check his chain, change oil, and I've taught him how to tighten spokes, so that is about his limits on care. This thing just purrs right along.... So, I replaced it with a 2022 red Xpect. I am currently going over it with many of the tricks learned from the sticky Xpect thread, I highly suggest reading it if you have not..... I was seriously tempted to snag a Templar 250, but it's just a bit "too new" for me to leap at. As for the seat height, I come in at a smooth 30 inch inseam, and comfortably touch both feet on the ground. The 2 year warranty is also incredible...... Buy one, you will not regret it one bit. I'll post a pic whenever I can figure out how....

[ChopperCharles]

Originally Posted by emt1581

Interesting reply. Seems like the Lifan KP 150 mini I'm looking at is 1st or 2nd Gen tech. However, a few months ago I was comparing the Grom, Z125 and Benelli.

But at the end of the day all gens of China bikes still have the same issue....no repair options near me. So the choice still comes down to: Do I pay $2200 and roll the dice on a China bike or pay $5500 for a Grom?

Not sure anyone saw the question but I am curious if there are any dual sport China bike options for someone with a 29" inseam?

Thanks!!

For the price of a Grom, get yourself a Benelli 302S and have a full-sized motorcycle that will hit 100mph, plus an extra grand in your pocket. Or get the TNT135, which has way more performance than a stock Grom, and is $2000 cheaper.

Any place you would buy a Benelli *OR* SSR from will service them. There are four places within 45 miles of my house that sell Benelli or SSR, so they're not an uncommon brand.

Charles.