Anybody out there Ride a DLX 250 Hawk with EFI?

[culcune]

Lifan has been successful with their X-Pect 200 EFI, and several of the higher echelon EFI bikes from SSR, Pitster Pro/GPX, and Kayo have had EFI with no real issues reported (for the prices of those bikes, they should be working ) and Boom/Baodiao have released a couple of street bikes with a 223cc thumper and EFI--Boom will be offering two different dual-sports in the next couple months with the same 223cc engine with EFI (and all will be CARB legal for those unfortunate souls who have few low-cost Chinese motorcycle options in California).

EFI is the (unfortunate for some) future of bikes. Talk of global warming has expedited the move as Europe has Euro-5 emissions, and China itself has adopted the same for its domestic market, and both are pushing to an all-electric future, and our current administration is pushing to use global warming to push for an eventual all-electric future.

I don't really have an opinion myself, but have accepted the idea that EFI is coming on strong, no matter what, and have been interested in the Lifan X-Pect 200 for a while now, and now I am interested in the upcoming X-Pect 250 which will also have EFI from what I understand.

[Thumper]

People range from polarized, lean one way or the other, or indifferent. I've looked around, and answers/opinions tend to match everything we've said...It is interesting to voyeuristically observe conversations on the issue. Pretty entertaining actually, and you will find more than one person sharing your position:

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-...rators,1317515

[JerryHawk250]

Nothing wrong with either. Pick one you are happy with and go with it. It's a matter of preference. With the tuning software for the EFI it can be the best of both worlds. Take it from someone who has tuned EFI. For racing, EFI is the way to go. Personally for muddy, wet off road riding I'll take the simple carb. No real electronics to get messed up.

[JFOlivier]

I am taking a look at getting the cables to set up the system for connecting to the ECU/EFI however the X-pect plug into the diagnostic port of the EFI is not the same as the Hawk, it is a very much smaller red plug so finding a male to match could be a problem. The X-pect EFI is a HUNIER EFI 9.0 and as yet I have not been able to find any information on it. If I remember correctly google does not even know anything called HUNIER. There has been some talk about problems if the exhaust system is changed, would that be true as all I see the EFI as is a controller keeping the fuel mixture to a certain oxygen content verified by the exhaust O2 content feed back. Where all the old bike riders have been tuning their carbs in the past the newer generation bikers will be tuning their EFI units in the future. Give it a little time.

[Thumper]

Oh. This makes sense. EFI is in some respects just a response to emissions compliance goals. We hear people say that EFI generally runs leaner. My 2011 Bandit runs lean (has EFI) and pops all the time during deceleration with throttle off in gear, but gets about 40 mpg no matter how I drive it. But I can't just rejet it to change this.

So the convenience of an EFI running "right" the first time (right out of the box) is offset by the need to go high tech to make changes, if hardware/software is available.

Conversely, a carburetor may need jetting changes before it runs reasonably well out of the box, but is easy to modify with jetting changes (and no computer/analyzer connection or software is needed). It also does not auto adjust when temperature or elevation changes significantly.

When I installed a Mikuni flatside RS 36mm rack on my old 1996 Bandit, just getting the rack out was a significant task, and each of them needed jetting or needle height adjustment! But the end result was rather satisfying

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Boatguy

Except there has never been an instance of a failed EFI at all.

Not even one.

Search the forum.

Now search for carburetor. Lolol. Pages and pages of problems.

Pages on pages of "problems?"

Thats a bit much...

Pages on pages of tuning questions is more accurate, and that has more to do with newbies and inexperienced people who.have never touched a carb before.

Once you get the jetting right, you really don't have to mess with it too much unless you plan to ride year round in weather extremes or with drastic altitude changes.

I also call BS on the no failures with the efi. The computer itself may not have issues, but I have seen more than a few bad sensors and an injector issue.

If I had to choose between a DLX and a TT250, I would take the TT250 every single time.

[Ol,fart]

Originally Posted by Britt

Exactly.
I've heard two arguments against EFI

1. It's a point of failure. Except, we haven't seen anyone's EFI fail. Oh, and the current crop of carb bikes are dependent on electronics too (ignition control), so...
2. It runs lean, (and you can't tune it). Yes, the Hawk DLX does run a little lean, but once it's broken in, it isn't that bad. It was worse the first few hundred miles. Now it's hard to tell; I do get a little popping every once in a while, but it's infrequent.

If someone likes to tune, get a carb bike. If someone just wants to ride, they'll probably be happier with EFI.

BTW, I haven't heard anyone come out and say that they removed the cat on a DLX and their EFI didn't handle it properly. Has anyone with a DLX done this?

Good question! My understanding is that it only has 1 h2o sensor( in front of cat ) so I think you could get away with it. If it had a second one after the cat no way !

[Rfoster950]

How dose the delhpi mt05 prevent spark after having a overheat issue engine not blown but sensors taken out prevent start up o2 heated engine gates heat temp selenoid failed. Looks like it only allows small amount of votages to selenoid until sensors are replaced.

[Rfoster950]

Need help find back of engine head temp sensor little 10 mm plug it in a open state now not sure if that's bad

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by TurboChris

Exactly, the carb has a fuel pump just as the efi does, also as far as I'm aware they both share electronic ignition systems so the carb bike still relies on these same electrical modules to run.

No fuel pump in any of my carbed bikes, ever. This includes my four China bikes, and about fifty various Japanese bikes before it.

I did have 4 mechanical throttle (accelerator) pumps in a rack of RS Mikuni smoothbores I installed on my Bandit more than a decade ago. Extra juice when twisting throttle overriding the jets. Not an electronic fuel pump.

Also, I had a Fuel injected Bandit 1250. It was the only fuel injected motorcycle I ever owned. If I used the kill switch instead of the key to turn it off for a stoplight or temporary stop, it was totally screwed up when I switched it back on and started it. Backfiring, on/off jerky unrideable motorcycle until I turned it off with the key, and started it fresh. That was just scary! It generally ran great, but sold it. I did not want to deal with troubleshooting the EFI.

No idea where you got the idea that there is a fuel pump in a carbed bike. It's gravity feed.

[TominMO]

We are fortunate that EFI has been around in cars for decades, and it is all pretty well understood. You can typically get well over 100K miles in a car with no EFI issues at all, including fuel pump. I think that kind of reliability does generally carry over to motorcycles. I like that my KPX is EFI, but I would also like to have a little dirt bike like an SSR 125 or 140 just to play around with, and fiddle with the carb just to keep those skills alive.

[Blueridge boyieee]

In the low budget single cylinder bike world, I’d go with a carb every time. Ive had a mixture of fuel injected inline 4’s GSXS1000 and carb’s on multiple inline 4’s, a FZ1000 with a muzzy and Ivan’s jetting was the best running of all my inline 4s.

I still have a 1986 Yamaha Fazer. It’s a crazy cool little bike, limited to 700cc because of tariffs at the time. It has Mikuni carbs and a fuel pump.

Fuel injection IMO, is dependent upon the sensor quality, and performance wise the throttle body size. Both are lacking in this application.

As a grumpy old man, I’d never want a low budget fuel injected bike, in fact I specifically avoided them when narrowing the field for a purchase.

It’s really cool that we still have both available to even have a discussion.

[TominMO]

Also it depends on what you are using the bike for. If you are going adventure touring, like Noraly/Itchy Boots on Youtube, you need a bike that will meter fuel properly from sea level to the top of the
Rockies. Her Honda CRF 300L Rally does that. If you are not changing elevations, carbs do just as well and are more easily tunable for perfect A/F ratio.

[phantaztix]

Originally Posted by TurboChris

It shows how to very easily build the port adapter to hook up for tuning and also has a link to the free tuning software. Everything someone needs to tune these ecu's is linked in that thread.

Here this link is the video in that thread.

Open it on youtube and in his video description it has a link to every part you will need to build the connector and also I believe he has the link to the free software in the description of the video as well. Either way the free software link is in the thread as well.

His video is interesting, but now old. There are updated items you can use.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08Y72TXBZ...v_ov_lig_dp_it

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MQ8GHG3...v_ov_lig_dp_it

New cables to skip all the work of wiring one up.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by TurboChris

I don't know the fuel pressure differences but if you were to remove the tbody and install the carb at the proper fuel pressure the efi system wouldn't care and it would run still, basically you would only be using the electronics for the timing side of things.

Lots of parts to potentially fail. And when they do, no dealer to troubleshoot. Fuel pump, oxygen sensor, additional wiring, and more.

Most of them run fine. Convenient to be sure. High tech or low tech... your choice! Old school just monitors fuel and spark. EFI adds many wildcards.