I've been searching and can't find an answer, so I apologize

imroc · 03-03-2011, 10:40 PM

...if this topic has been brought up before.

I bought a pair of 1 yr old Tao Tao 110cc ATVs. The oil was was pretty black and the air filters were caked with dirt/dust/bugs, etc. I decided to do some maintenance on them and started with the black one. I cleaned the air filter in gasoline overnight and sprayed it with compressed air to dry it, oiled it and blew off excess oil. I went ahead and changed the oil. I don't have a means to measure the oil, so I went by the sight glass on the crankcase and filled half way. Oops! Had a ton of smoke and realized that the crankcase was too full. So, I immediately stopped the engine and drained it down and went by the level on the dipstick. Stupid mistake. I ran it for a few minutes to clear the oil that got into the piston/cylinder (i'm sure it did) until the smoke cleared. Now the poor ATV sputters badly. I thought that I may have damaged the rings or something, but seems to be an air/fuel problem. I decided to pull the air filter off and run it for a minute (don't start...I know). It ran like a champ, even better than it did when I got it. I looked through the air filter and can see light clearly and cleanly. I sprayed it with compressed air for shitz n grinz and re-installed. Same problem, lack of air as it seems. I ran it around the block a few times to get a feel for what's going on and this is what I found:

When in first gear, if you give it the throttle, fast or smooth, it sputters. When you let off for a split second and throttle again, it'll rev up. This may require a few times in each gear, sometimes, once. Inconsistent. Pull the filter and the thing will nearly pull the front wheels off the ground and feels smooth through all gears.

I don't want to rule out possible ring damage because of the overfill of oil, but it seems like a fuel/air issue. I just don't understand why cleaning the filter would make it seem worse then before the maintenance. I did pull the plug and clean off the carbon residue from the overfill and checked the gap as well.

Any info, input, comments would be great.

Side note:
While I had it down, I checked the sprockets, because the chain kept coming off. I ended up finding a tooth missing on the front sprocket and replaced it (cheap parts, huh?! I bought a few for spares). Adjusted the chain, and it's good.

mizke · 03-03-2011, 11:05 PM

maybe look into a new air filter, find one on ebay that looks like ur stock one. or if you dont mind having to maybe do a rejet you could with a performance type air filter..

it sounds like there is either a plug or a leak somewhere or maybe its jetted to rich so it runs bad with the air filter on. but when you remove the filter the larger amount of air being inhaled by the motor could be leaning the mixture out enough to get it running properly..

either way give the whole intake/carb/air filter system and parts a very very close looking over and then double check them again..

imroc · 03-03-2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizke

maybe look into a new air filter, find one on ebay that looks like ur stock one. or if you dont mind having to maybe do a rejet you could with a performance type air filter..

it sounds like there is either a plug or a leak somewhere or maybe its jetted to rich so it runs bad with the air filter on. but when you remove the filter the larger amount of air being inhaled by the motor could be leaning the mixture out enough to get it running properly..

either way give the whole intake/carb/air filter system and parts a very very close looking over and then double check them again..

yaknow, miz, you just gave me an idea. being that there's a crankcase vent into the air filter, maybe because I overfilled...is it possible that I sent oil into the carb? I'm not a motor mechanic and haven't touched a motor since my teen years (many years ago), but I am an HVAC/R tech. Is the removal, clean and inspection of this carb simple?

imroc · 03-03-2011, 11:23 PM

btw, the paperwork says to use 15w40 oil. Isn't this oil used commonly used for diesel engines? Do any of you encourage use of synthetics?

mizke · 03-03-2011, 11:58 PM

only way to find out if oil was sent into the carb is to remove it. drain the carb bowl, remove carb, flip it upside down and remove the bolts holding the bowl on. once the bowl is removed, pull the jets out one at a time so you know where they go and make sure when you hold them up to a light that you can see through the pin hole in them. inspect the inside of the bowl and well the whole carb for oil.. put it all back together and continue checking the rest of the intake system..

make sure when you remove the carb there should be some kind of oring or gasket between the carb and the intake manifold.. mine was missing when i got my quad since it was used and i fought a a list of problems from it stalling out when riding if i let off the gas, back fires, surging idle, and a few other things that where pretty much due to a stupid 10 cent black oring..

but i dont think its the oil in the carb, you said if you remove the air filter it runs like a champ.. so thats why i think a leak or plug somewhere in the intake system. but i think its the air filter that is causing the problem

Weldangrind · 03-04-2011, 01:24 AM

Your crankcase vents into the air box? I'd get rid of that. Most of the horizontal engines just point the vent hose to the ground, behind the engine. Yes, I'm guessing that oil ended up in the carb and air filter. I'd certainly remove the carb, remove the bowl and spray it liberally with carb cleaner.

Did you oil the filter after cleaning it?

Jim · 03-04-2011, 03:08 AM

My sumoto atv was vented to the stock airbox as well.

imroc · 03-05-2011, 12:23 AM

Yeah, i agree. Best start with the carb. The air filter is a clone K&N and is spotless. I dont have a filter or air intake 'box'. The crankcase has a tube that vents directly into the chrome top of the filter via barbed fitting.

This is the type of intake filter i have: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Air-F...-/160454151809

Weldangrind · 03-05-2011, 01:55 AM

That barbed fitting is likely where the excess oil went. Since the piston creates vacuum on descent, the excess oil would have been pulled into the air stream. A good carb cleaning and removal of the hose should do the trick.

You can just get a longer length of hose and route it behind the engine, pointing to the ground. Plug the barb with a rubber cap or a piece of hose with a bolt in it.

mizke · 03-05-2011, 02:09 AM

or take a lighter and melt the end of the barb untill it just starts to bubble, then take a pair of pliers and pinch it shut then blow on it a few times and it is perfectly sealed with no risk of ever leaking..

imroc · 03-07-2011, 02:47 PM

Thnx all! Im bacl home, so i will give it some attn tonite or tomorry

imroc · 03-15-2011, 11:52 PM

Ok, i pulled the carb and cleaned it thoroughly and reinstalled. Still sputters badly with the air cleaner installed and runs like a champ without. Replaced all o-rings and gaskets while i had the carb off. I noticed theres not a fuel/air mixture adjust..only the idle adjust. Since I had two of these ATVs, Im gonna start swapping parts until I narrow the problem down.

I forgot to mention an important detail! I live at 7600ft above sea level. Dont know, it ran just fine before i changed the oil.

mizke · 03-15-2011, 11:55 PM

your air filter is to restrictive or you are to rich, take your pick...

think about it, runs like crap with the air filter on. but when you remove it and there is no restriction on the air being sucked in it runs like a champ.

Weldangrind · 03-16-2011, 01:07 AM

There's gotta be an air / fuel screw. Maybe it's underneath the carb like on my 200 Gio Beast atv.

mizke · 03-16-2011, 01:24 AM

a air fuel screw would fix a problem like that ? that it was just there to smooth out the hesitation coming off idle

03-03-2011, 10:40 PM	#1
imroc Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 35	I've been searching and can't find an answer, so I apologize ...if this topic has been brought up before. I bought a pair of 1 yr old Tao Tao 110cc ATVs. The oil was was pretty black and the air filters were caked with dirt/dust/bugs, etc. I decided to do some maintenance on them and started with the black one. I cleaned the air filter in gasoline overnight and sprayed it with compressed air to dry it, oiled it and blew off excess oil. I went ahead and changed the oil. I don't have a means to measure the oil, so I went by the sight glass on the crankcase and filled half way. Oops! Had a ton of smoke and realized that the crankcase was too full. So, I immediately stopped the engine and drained it down and went by the level on the dipstick. Stupid mistake. I ran it for a few minutes to clear the oil that got into the piston/cylinder (i'm sure it did) until the smoke cleared. Now the poor ATV sputters badly. I thought that I may have damaged the rings or something, but seems to be an air/fuel problem. I decided to pull the air filter off and run it for a minute (don't start...I know). It ran like a champ, even better than it did when I got it. I looked through the air filter and can see light clearly and cleanly. I sprayed it with compressed air for shitz n grinz and re-installed. Same problem, lack of air as it seems. I ran it around the block a few times to get a feel for what's going on and this is what I found: When in first gear, if you give it the throttle, fast or smooth, it sputters. When you let off for a split second and throttle again, it'll rev up. This may require a few times in each gear, sometimes, once. Inconsistent. Pull the filter and the thing will nearly pull the front wheels off the ground and feels smooth through all gears. I don't want to rule out possible ring damage because of the overfill of oil, but it seems like a fuel/air issue. I just don't understand why cleaning the filter would make it seem worse then before the maintenance. I did pull the plug and clean off the carbon residue from the overfill and checked the gap as well. Any info, input, comments would be great. Side note: While I had it down, I checked the sprockets, because the chain kept coming off. I ended up finding a tooth missing on the front sprocket and replaced it (cheap parts, huh?! I bought a few for spares). Adjusted the chain, and it's good.
	0

03-03-2011, 11:05 PM	#2
mizke Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,452	maybe look into a new air filter, find one on ebay that looks like ur stock one. or if you dont mind having to maybe do a rejet you could with a performance type air filter.. it sounds like there is either a plug or a leak somewhere or maybe its jetted to rich so it runs bad with the air filter on. but when you remove the filter the larger amount of air being inhaled by the motor could be leaning the mixture out enough to get it running properly.. either way give the whole intake/carb/air filter system and parts a very very close looking over and then double check them again.. __________________ 200cc beast replica,carsoli cdi,performance coil,fmf powercore 2,uni air filter,hour/tach meter,jetted mikuni carb,msr bars,moose racing grips,yz250f clutch perch,D.I.D chain
	0

03-03-2011, 11:58 PM	#5
mizke Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,452	only way to find out if oil was sent into the carb is to remove it. drain the carb bowl, remove carb, flip it upside down and remove the bolts holding the bowl on. once the bowl is removed, pull the jets out one at a time so you know where they go and make sure when you hold them up to a light that you can see through the pin hole in them. inspect the inside of the bowl and well the whole carb for oil.. put it all back together and continue checking the rest of the intake system.. make sure when you remove the carb there should be some kind of oring or gasket between the carb and the intake manifold.. mine was missing when i got my quad since it was used and i fought a a list of problems from it stalling out when riding if i let off the gas, back fires, surging idle, and a few other things that where pretty much due to a stupid 10 cent black oring.. but i dont think its the oil in the carb, you said if you remove the air filter it runs like a champ.. so thats why i think a leak or plug somewhere in the intake system. but i think its the air filter that is causing the problem __________________ 200cc beast replica,carsoli cdi,performance coil,fmf powercore 2,uni air filter,hour/tach meter,jetted mikuni carb,msr bars,moose racing grips,yz250f clutch perch,D.I.D chain
	0

03-04-2011, 01:24 AM	#6
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Your crankcase vents into the air box? I'd get rid of that. Most of the horizontal engines just point the vent hose to the ground, behind the engine. Yes, I'm guessing that oil ended up in the carb and air filter. I'd certainly remove the carb, remove the bowl and spray it liberally with carb cleaner. Did you oil the filter after cleaning it? __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
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03-04-2011, 03:08 AM	#7
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	My sumoto atv was vented to the stock airbox as well. __________________ "Be excellent to each other" "We are all human. Let's start to prove it!"
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03-03-2011, 11:23 PM	#4
imroc Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 35	btw, the paperwork says to use 15w40 oil. Isn't this oil used commonly used for diesel engines? Do any of you encourage use of synthetics?
	0

03-05-2011, 12:23 AM	#8
imroc Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 35	Yeah, i agree. Best start with the carb. The air filter is a clone K&N and is spotless. I dont have a filter or air intake 'box'. The crankcase has a tube that vents directly into the chrome top of the filter via barbed fitting. This is the type of intake filter i have: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Air-F...-/160454151809
	0

03-05-2011, 01:55 AM	#9
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	That barbed fitting is likely where the excess oil went. Since the piston creates vacuum on descent, the excess oil would have been pulled into the air stream. A good carb cleaning and removal of the hose should do the trick. You can just get a longer length of hose and route it behind the engine, pointing to the ground. Plug the barb with a rubber cap or a piece of hose with a bolt in it. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

03-05-2011, 02:09 AM	#10
mizke Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,452	or take a lighter and melt the end of the barb untill it just starts to bubble, then take a pair of pliers and pinch it shut then blow on it a few times and it is perfectly sealed with no risk of ever leaking.. __________________ 200cc beast replica,carsoli cdi,performance coil,fmf powercore 2,uni air filter,hour/tach meter,jetted mikuni carb,msr bars,moose racing grips,yz250f clutch perch,D.I.D chain
	0

03-07-2011, 02:47 PM	#11
imroc Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 35	Thnx all! Im bacl home, so i will give it some attn tonite or tomorry
	0

03-15-2011, 11:52 PM	#12
imroc Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 35	Ok, i pulled the carb and cleaned it thoroughly and reinstalled. Still sputters badly with the air cleaner installed and runs like a champ without. Replaced all o-rings and gaskets while i had the carb off. I noticed theres not a fuel/air mixture adjust..only the idle adjust. Since I had two of these ATVs, Im gonna start swapping parts until I narrow the problem down. I forgot to mention an important detail! I live at 7600ft above sea level. Dont know, it ran just fine before i changed the oil.
	0

03-15-2011, 11:55 PM	#13
mizke Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,452	your air filter is to restrictive or you are to rich, take your pick... think about it, runs like crap with the air filter on. but when you remove it and there is no restriction on the air being sucked in it runs like a champ. __________________ 200cc beast replica,carsoli cdi,performance coil,fmf powercore 2,uni air filter,hour/tach meter,jetted mikuni carb,msr bars,moose racing grips,yz250f clutch perch,D.I.D chain
	0

03-16-2011, 01:07 AM	#14
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	There's gotta be an air / fuel screw. Maybe it's underneath the carb like on my 200 Gio Beast atv. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

03-16-2011, 01:24 AM	#15
mizke Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,452	a air fuel screw would fix a problem like that ? that it was just there to smooth out the hesitation coming off idle __________________ 200cc beast replica,carsoli cdi,performance coil,fmf powercore 2,uni air filter,hour/tach meter,jetted mikuni carb,msr bars,moose racing grips,yz250f clutch perch,D.I.D chain
	0