V Raptor 250 Modding - Page 4

zingshoen · 10-06-2014, 06:39 PM

sorry to hear you motor literally broke. here in oz i bought a 223 zongshen engine (all vendors call it a 250) and i m sure it is the same as yours. when u see it, you know it s the same, boltholes, starter etc, so no worries, just buy one and bolt it in. you ll still have the old motor for spares.

obviously the motor was getting to hot. gearing to low for such a long trip seems likely.
other than that: too little oil, oil passages blocked (or not functioning properly). motor running too lean for too long? oil and petrol also cool the motor, so to speak. maybe your hot cdi?

what do you think? what would make a highway-proof skyteam?

or last but not least, bad metal alloy in the cast? i d hate to think that. anyway, a genuine zongshen wouldn t do that...one hopes...

TastyRabbit · 10-07-2014, 08:15 AM

I'm going to take it apart in a couple of days, I'm waiting for the weekend. The metal is the problem I think.... I'm near certain I was running rich. I want to put in a watercooled engine next. Does anyone know of one that can be fitted to the Raptor.

The Speedo was flipping out in the red the entire way. I don't think the engine can handle been run at full power for long.... definitely not 30+ hours. Sorry for the lack of photos no SD slots in the internet café

Weldangrind · 10-07-2014, 10:43 AM

You can certainly use a CG water cooled motor, like the type they use in the Tuk Tuks in Asia. Those can be poked out to 270cc.

You can get an iron grey colour CG250 for £170.00 plus shipping, and then you'd need radiators. I'd buy two small rads rather than one large one for space reasons. Here's an example of the motor: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...58&ns=1#detail

I don't know if you can buy an assembled 270, but it's easy to convert a 250 to 270.

Weldangrind · 10-07-2014, 11:05 AM

I found a complete CG270 liquid cooled motor. They describe it as a CG300, but that's rounded up. It's £410.00. It would be much cheaper to convert a CG250.

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...87&ns=1#detail

zingshoen · 10-07-2014, 10:35 PM

FWIW a few years back I read that they ran the Zong 223 motor in a XR200 frame in an Enduro race in Germany and came 11th, which wasn t bad at all. The motor did alright. So if you don t need sustained high speed endurance you should be okay air cooled. And if you get a bad batch of an air-cooled engine, you may run into troubles too. So i would go for a Zong motor in any case. I get the impression that other engines are a bit hit and miss when it comes to quality.

TastyRabbit · 10-10-2014, 04:18 AM

As promised = photos

Valve messed up in next one =

Only one piece I cannt remember where it goes=

Cracked Case =

I like the look of the 250 Zong, I ll try and figure out how to order later: hopefully they'll ship to europe. I'm guessing fixing my old engine will be about the same price so I may just go with the Zong for confidence.

Will any radiator fit?

zingshoen · 10-10-2014, 06:09 AM

good grief, the case split at the front!

sorry , no idea about the radiator, does any of the small fat wheelers use radiators? may look a bit funny...

katoranger · 10-10-2014, 09:40 AM

I think you have a parts engine now. That looks to have self destructed.

Weldangrind · 10-10-2014, 10:35 AM

The piece you can't identify slips into the clutch bearing.

Carnage! Any shots of the piston? I suspect that it parted company from the rod, forcing the crank to a halt and breaking the case. Wow.

The water-cooled motor will require some fab work, since you'll need to mount rads that never existed on your bike. I'd use two small rads, rather than one large one, like an old CR125.

Weldangrind · 10-10-2014, 10:36 AM

I'm amazed at how the cylinder sleeve broke. Must have been tremendous pressure.

SpudRider · 10-10-2014, 01:22 PM

Wow! That is amazing carnage.

TastyRabbit · 10-14-2014, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

The piece you can't identify slips into the clutch bearing.

Carnage! Any shots of the piston? I suspect that it parted company from the rod, forcing the crank to a halt and breaking the case. Wow.

The water-cooled motor will require some fab work, since you'll need to mount rads that never existed on your bike. I'd use two small rads, rather than one large one, like an old CR125.

Yeah... The piston disappeared...... That photo down the cylinder is what I saw when I opened it.

I think your right, it parted company and went on a trip to the center of the sun

I'm going to order the Zongshen, I'm going to ask the seller if he'll do a radiator with it. Do you know if my exhaust manifold will fit? Or should I get a new one.

Most people are laughing at me for buying Chinese again. I'm laughing at them though... Since owning my bike I've learnt so much. I think its best to know about your vehicle, the bmw was no where near this fun.

Weldangrind · 10-14-2014, 07:35 PM

Good attitude!

A liquid cooled motor will take some fab work, and it could break your heart. I'm not sure how much rad space there will be, and you'll need to be creative. If you move forward with it, you'll get mad props for poking your bike out to a liquid cooled 270 pushrod machine. Awesome!

Weldangrind · 10-14-2014, 07:39 PM

Having another 60 seconds to think about it, it's the sustained high RPM that killed it, IMHO. With a 270 pushrod motor, you'll likely make a noticeable increase in torque. You could use that torque with a higher final drive ratio, and perhaps be able to maintain 130 km/h at a lower RPM.

This will be a fun exercise.

zingshoen · 10-14-2014, 08:27 PM

i d try to find a prototype somewhere, or at least the radiators you want to use, then measure and measure again, before ordering the water cooled. it will be possible to do, but the look may suck in that frame. and if the rad is too small you ll get overheating probs again.

i fully agree with you that unless one has taken a bike apart and put it back together you don t really own it. it also makes you more aware of the limitations of the materials and of general laws of physics.

10-06-2014, 06:39 PM	#46
zingshoen Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia Posts: 648	sorry to hear you motor literally broke. here in oz i bought a 223 zongshen engine (all vendors call it a 250) and i m sure it is the same as yours. when u see it, you know it s the same, boltholes, starter etc, so no worries, just buy one and bolt it in. you ll still have the old motor for spares. obviously the motor was getting to hot. gearing to low for such a long trip seems likely. other than that: too little oil, oil passages blocked (or not functioning properly). motor running too lean for too long? oil and petrol also cool the motor, so to speak. maybe your hot cdi? what do you think? what would make a highway-proof skyteam? or last but not least, bad metal alloy in the cast? i d hate to think that. anyway, a genuine zongshen wouldn t do that...one hopes... __________________ 1971 Garelli Gulp 50cc with open ports and 16 mm Bing Carbie + 1980 Honda XL 223 ZS + 2007 Zongshen LZX200G + DR400SM
	0

10-07-2014, 10:43 AM	#48
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	You can certainly use a CG water cooled motor, like the type they use in the Tuk Tuks in Asia. Those can be poked out to 270cc. You can get an iron grey colour CG250 for £170.00 plus shipping, and then you'd need radiators. I'd buy two small rads rather than one large one for space reasons. Here's an example of the motor: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...58&ns=1#detail I don't know if you can buy an assembled 270, but it's easy to convert a 250 to 270. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

10-07-2014, 11:05 AM	#49
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I found a complete CG270 liquid cooled motor. They describe it as a CG300, but that's rounded up. It's £410.00. It would be much cheaper to convert a CG250. http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...87&ns=1#detail __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

10-07-2014, 10:35 PM	#50
zingshoen Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia Posts: 648	FWIW a few years back I read that they ran the Zong 223 motor in a XR200 frame in an Enduro race in Germany and came 11th, which wasn t bad at all. The motor did alright. So if you don t need sustained high speed endurance you should be okay air cooled. And if you get a bad batch of an air-cooled engine, you may run into troubles too. So i would go for a Zong motor in any case. I get the impression that other engines are a bit hit and miss when it comes to quality. __________________ 1971 Garelli Gulp 50cc with open ports and 16 mm Bing Carbie + 1980 Honda XL 223 ZS + 2007 Zongshen LZX200G + DR400SM
	0

10-10-2014, 06:09 AM	#52
zingshoen Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia Posts: 648	good grief, the case split at the front! sorry , no idea about the radiator, does any of the small fat wheelers use radiators? may look a bit funny... __________________ 1971 Garelli Gulp 50cc with open ports and 16 mm Bing Carbie + 1980 Honda XL 223 ZS + 2007 Zongshen LZX200G + DR400SM
	0

10-07-2014, 08:15 AM	#47
TastyRabbit Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 31	I'm going to take it apart in a couple of days, I'm waiting for the weekend. The metal is the problem I think.... I'm near certain I was running rich. I want to put in a watercooled engine next. Does anyone know of one that can be fitted to the Raptor. The Speedo was flipping out in the red the entire way. I don't think the engine can handle been run at full power for long.... definitely not 30+ hours. Sorry for the lack of photos no SD slots in the internet café
	0

10-10-2014, 04:18 AM	#51
TastyRabbit Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 31	As promised = photos Valve messed up in next one = Only one piece I cannt remember where it goes= Cracked Case = I like the look of the 250 Zong, I ll try and figure out how to order later: hopefully they'll ship to europe. I'm guessing fixing my old engine will be about the same price so I may just go with the Zong for confidence. Will any radiator fit?
	0

10-10-2014, 09:40 AM	#53
katoranger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Altamont, Kansas Posts: 15,103	I think you have a parts engine now. That looks to have self destructed. __________________ You meet the nicest people on a Honda Clone.
	0

10-10-2014, 10:35 AM	#54
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	The piece you can't identify slips into the clutch bearing. Carnage! Any shots of the piston? I suspect that it parted company from the rod, forcing the crank to a halt and breaking the case. Wow. The water-cooled motor will require some fab work, since you'll need to mount rads that never existed on your bike. I'd use two small rads, rather than one large one, like an old CR125. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

10-10-2014, 10:36 AM	#55
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I'm amazed at how the cylinder sleeve broke. Must have been tremendous pressure. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

10-10-2014, 01:22 PM	#56
SpudRider Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 25,054	Wow! That is amazing carnage. __________________ Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894
	0

10-14-2014, 07:35 PM	#58
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Good attitude! A liquid cooled motor will take some fab work, and it could break your heart. I'm not sure how much rad space there will be, and you'll need to be creative. If you move forward with it, you'll get mad props for poking your bike out to a liquid cooled 270 pushrod machine. Awesome! __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

10-14-2014, 07:39 PM	#59
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Having another 60 seconds to think about it, it's the sustained high RPM that killed it, IMHO. With a 270 pushrod motor, you'll likely make a noticeable increase in torque. You could use that torque with a higher final drive ratio, and perhaps be able to maintain 130 km/h at a lower RPM. This will be a fun exercise. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

10-14-2014, 08:27 PM	#60
zingshoen Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia Posts: 648	i d try to find a prototype somewhere, or at least the radiators you want to use, then measure and measure again, before ordering the water cooled. it will be possible to do, but the look may suck in that frame. and if the rad is too small you ll get overheating probs again. i fully agree with you that unless one has taken a bike apart and put it back together you don t really own it. it also makes you more aware of the limitations of the materials and of general laws of physics. __________________ 1971 Garelli Gulp 50cc with open ports and 16 mm Bing Carbie + 1980 Honda XL 223 ZS + 2007 Zongshen LZX200G + DR400SM
	0