EPA vs. DoT approved for street registration?

[Discoveror]

I'm confused about EPA vs. DoT approval for street registration.

Reading the "ColoradoGoose" thread, I saw statements that the Templar X is not street legal. How does one tell/know when shopping?

Looking at the PowerSportsMax Templar X page, it doesn't mention DoT, but does say (at the end of the 'specifications') that it is EPA approved.

What is required for street registration? EPA approval or DoT approval? Obviously, it would be risky to buy the bike, only to discover that it can't be registered.

Looking at the Wyoming DoT site, it seems that the VIN must be verified by an authorized agency (e.g. the police department); an official form is provided for VIN verification. I found no other mention of EPA/DoT requirements.

What's the difference(s)?

Thanks - for the enlightenment. I suspect that others will benefit from this, as well; so, I created a separate Post to address/clarify the subject?

[Thumper]

It is the Wild West. Most of us have no idea what is required in your State. Most of the forum members are old farts that have lots of experience registering new and used vehicles, but not necessarily in your State. Jerry was right to call out Templars for not being technically street legal, but chinese bike riders register these and other grey area bikes in their State. Unfortunatey, no one will hand you a guarantee that you will be successful negotiating the process in your State. Even Hawks are rejected in some States!

Even if a forum member posts succesful registration/plating in your State, you could run into a chinese hating zealot that turns you away, even if you have legitimate paperwork. Don't assume that politics never plays a part in the process. Yup. It can be that bad!

Some employees in the shipping process dropkick these crates. It isn't a mistake. In fact, it can be really obvious. Accountability? In your dreams!

And I am contemplating a Chinese bike big purchase. Not the bargain value low end stuff that we all like. MUCH more is at stake! I am going to be asking about insurance. DDP shipping, yes, but what will it look like when it shows up at my door

[Coloradogoose]

The mention of DOT came up in that thread because according to Colorado statutes one of the requirements to register an imported vehicle for street use is listed as:

U.S. DOT certification that the New Vehicle or OHV meets all safety standards required in the United States.

There is also a requirement for EPA certification as follows:

Application for Final Admission of Non-Conforming Imported Vehicle or Engine issued by the EPA with the resulting EPA issued Certificate of Conformity.

DOT has to do with safety, so tires, lights, signals all have to be DOT approved.

EPA is emissions related. You will notice some bikes are 49 state approved because California has such strict emission standards that many Chinese bikes won't meet them.

It's likely that the only reason the Templar isn't DOT approved is because of the time it takes to get anything done in the bureaucratic monster that is our government. I bet it'll be approved at some point and the price will jump.

Those are Colorado rules that are sometimes followed, sometimes not. They didn't ask for either of those with my KPM200 but may ask for both on my next purchase. I'd bet WY has more relaxed laws with a similar level of inconsistency in following them.

[Thumper]

The anti-asian mentality and anger is discouraging. But the fact is that most of your appliances, computers, car parts, even furniture come from China. Chinese sourced parts are going into just about everything now. We have a local hardware store chain that has a brand called Patriot. It is their own exclusive house brand. But if you look at the packaging, it's all from China. Ironic brand name. I have bought those products. It's unfortunate that we don't make them in the USA, but we don't. It's impossible not to buy Chinese products.

But for some reason, our motorcycle crates are intentionally kicked around and abused. My first Templar arrived in the back of the R&L delivery truck STANDING ON IT'S END! And someone had poured oil into the crate on both ends. There was no oil leakage from the bike. The cardboard around the crate was intentionally torn open. Just sick. I was outraged, but what the heck could I do. There is obvious country origin signage on the crates, and it just seems to piss off the dock/warehouse workers and truck drivers. Half of these crate bikes arrive with significant damage. It is really sad.

It happens to every brand that forum members buy. None are exempt from this problem. Ironically, every one that sees my bike are impressed and complement the bike. And I see Hawks and other Chinese bikes in parking lots all the time. I would bet that there are shipping depots where some employees watch for these crates and joke with each other about kicking them around. But they don't do the same thing to a crate of HP computers, or Hitachi/Metabo tools. There is just no accounting for the hypocracy and ignorance.

You can run into this attitude at a license office, State or contractor operated. If you do, you are done for.

[Discoveror]

Agreed.

I've noticed that only about 4% of Chinese are CCP; I suspect that the rest are well intentioned, conscientious, hard-working folks. `same in Iran; most folks don't agree with/support their theocrats; but, they have little choice. ` same in Venezuela ... and the list goes on ... Is it any different HERE in the U.S.? ... REALLY? "Freedom ain't $free$" ... in this world; it only comes at a VERY bloody price ... paid by our fathers.

From other hobbies, I've noticed that the Chinese will build to whatever price-point, demanded by the foreign importer. You want $cheap$; they'll build you cheap. You want quality; they build you very nice quality ... at an appropriate, competitive price.

I remember that in the `70's, Japanese cars were little more than tin-cans; the old Datsuns come to mind; then, they worked HARD and diligently to improve ... and did ... and have since earned exemplary reputations. Now, faced with high domestic labor costs (` sound familiar?), the Japanese bike makers are subcontracting (their name) to Thailand (Honda, Kawasaki), India (KTM) ... and China (even BMW gets some parts made in China!).

Are US factory workers really better? ... and more conscientious, deliver any BETTER quality (for our hard-earned dollars) than coming from Japan, Thailand, India ... or China? How conscientious and diligent are those shipping workers, intentionally damaging what they are $paid$ (pretty handsomely, actually) to deliver? Chinese shipments are paying a large portion of their salaries! There are a LOT of meatheads out there! ... sad to say.

Surely, the importers are well aware of this intentional damage. I wonder why they don't ask/demand that the Chinese factories ship in nondescript boxes ... or perhaps with the IMPORTER's name on the box? If customers started refusing damaged deliveries, wouldn't the importers start changing the labeling game?

[Thumper]

Back in September, IA_grvlrnr was out of town when his crate was delivered by R&L a few days early (after thet gave him a delivery date). The crate was extremely abused. He posted phptos in his review sectio post. It really stinks that R&L shipping dud so much damage.

Ironically, he was able to register and plate it in IA.

There is one problem that doesn't appear to be shipping damage. His headpipe had a faulty weld at the mid-pipe frame mount, and somethin inside of the nuffler broke inside and began to overheat just under the plastic. It began to melt the plastic.

Unfortunately, he was out of town and his wife was unaware of all of the damage, and accepted the crate. Now he is having problems with the transmission. He hasn't posted since September. I am so sorry he seems to have gotten a bad build, and lots of damage by R&L on top of that.

[Discoveror]

If R&L shipping is the consistent culprit, if I place an order, I will DEMAND a different shipper. If PSM says they only ship via R&L, my reply will be: "NO sale!" How many times is PSM going to hear that before they find another shipper? If that new shipper costs a few bucks more, is it worth paying that, rather than receiving damaged goods?

When R&L loses a big, consistent shipping customer, then we'll see how fast R&L can identify and clean out the meathead a'holes in their employ. When a customer refuses a damaged shipment, then meathead has to explain to his boss (and the insurance company?) how cargo that was shipped in fine condition is now damaged! Whoops ... If a child, who has to have his toy right NOW (instant gratification), accepts the damaged shipment, then meathead is off the hook.

THAT's how market demand works! ... by "the Golden Rule": He who holds the gold ... rules !

[Texas Pete]

And if its Union Dock Workers at the ports?

[Discoveror]

Originally Posted by Texas Pete

And if its Union Dock Workers at the ports?

That's up to PSM to identify and handle ... by also refusing shipments. Then, it's up to the Chinese shipper to identify and fix the problem. It WILL get fixed ... where there's substantial money involved!

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Texas Pete

And if its Union Dock Workers at the ports?

These ship from PSM warehouses, NOT China. They are intact and in good shape when they leave the warehouse. They receive these in containers via boat, and they are in good shape in the warehouse in California, and another one in a Dallas suberb.

It is definitely the domestic shipper. Seems like R&L.

It is a GOOD plan to demand a different shipper.

[Bill Hilly]

I think that "technically " to be completely legal for normal license, and registration, they probably need to have a NHTSA placard on the bike, and when I bought my first Chinese bike, I chose a Brozz 250, because it had the placard, and I was pretty confident that I could get it registered. I had a title service handle the process, and avoided the headache. I figure that in some cases luck is involved. You may have one DMV employee that is a stickler for the rules, and one that is more lax on the rules. I think the $32 dollars that the local title service charges is money well spent, and opting for a temporary tag, and registration through them probably helps too. I don't know exactly how it works, but the title service's computer is linked in with the DMV's somehow, and getting the temporary tag , and temporary registration through them probably eliminates, or reduces the chance of an employee of the DMV handling some of the process. On my second bike I bought a slightly used (425 Kilometers showing) TBR7, which already had a Title, and it was a lot less stressful if a procedure for me.

[Discoveror]

Originally Posted by Bill Hilly

I think that "technically " to be completely legal for normal license, and registration, they probably need to have a NHTSA placard on the bike.

Hmmm ... I haven't seen/noticed NHTSA claims on importer websites. If they had such, I imagine that that placard would be something they'd advertise on their site.

All I've noticed is EPA certification or "street legal" claims; some excluding California.

Absent such NHTSA claims probably indicates that they don't have such certification?

Thanks - for answering the original question, Bill. ` MUCH appreciated.

[Bill Hilly]

Originally Posted by Discoveror

Hmmm ... I haven't seen/noticed NHTSA claims on importer websites. If they had such, I imagine that that placard would be something they'd advertise on their site.

All I've noticed is EPA certification or "street legal" claims; some excluding California.

Absent such NHTSA claims probably indicates that they don't have such certification?

Thanks - for answering the original question, Bill. ` MUCH appreciated.

It was on the frame up by the front of the tank on my Brozz, and there is one on my TBR7 on the swing arm, and maybe also under the tank, I have not noticed. Texas Power Sports post the fact that some bikes they sell don't have it, and names certain states that won't register them, and warns that people may have trying to register some bikes. The placard on my Brozz had another set of letters on the placard that started with "F", and was something similar to the "NHTSA" but I think they mean the same , one meaning Federal Highway safety, and one National Highway.
I was in the same boat as you , and here is one of my early threads on the subject.https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=28095
Here is another thread addressing the issue
https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=28081
I see now that The "FMVSS" (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards)is the other set of letters . meaning about the same " . I am going on memory from a couple years ago on my Brozz, but I think it had about what is pictures in the link to the second thread.