Chinese Manufacturers Assembling Japanese Powersport Products

[HawkTwoFifty]

Does anyone know which Chinese assembly plants or Chinese manufacturers have been involved with assembling/producing dirt-bikes, motorcycles, or ATV's for Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, or Suzuki at the current time? And if so, do you know which Japanese models are involved?

I am under the firm belief now that certain Chinese assembly plants and manufacturers have been working closely with Japanese powersport companies and also produce their own Chinese products on-site which are very similar or identical to Japanese quality due to standards put upon them.

I am a HUGE powersports fan and seek Japanese quality, but do not think the RIDICULOUS prices for them are justified anymore. If I can find Chinese models which are close in quality standards to that of Japanese models, I will buy Chinese motorcycles, dirtbikes, and ATVs exclusivity for now on.

Does anyone know which Chinese powersports manufacturers or assembly plants are the ones chosen by Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, or Suzuki to produce certain models of Japanese products? I think this would be key info to finding inexpensive Chinese prices for Japanese outstanding reliability. Such a deal cannot be beat!!

Anyone have any info on this topic? Thanks.

[Megadan]

From my experience, the Chinese companies that are involved with any production/assembly of Euro or Jap motorcycles or parts that do sell their own bikes are often priced not much less than said Japanese and Euro bikes of equal size/type.

In my experience, the biggest issues with most Chinese made bikes to date is never really anything big. Motor and transmission wise, brakes, and even suspension on some higher end bikes like the SSR 250 and 450's and the Pitster Pro LXR line are always fairly reliable.

The biggest issue with most Chinese bikes tends to be consistency with quality control, and sometimes cheaper materials. Again, this is usually only an issue with the lower end of the spectrum, such as the Hawk 250. Brittle plastics, and issues like the cush drive studs being mismatched in size, or inconsistently sized, or the snap ring groove is machined a fraction of a mm too far out and allowing for play.

The REAL issue with the majority of Chinese bikes is a lack of factory or dealer support. All manufacturers let bad products slip through the cracks from time to time, or have some sort of design flaw. With an American, Euro, or Japanese brand bike you can take it to a dealer that services them and have the issue resolved, or get the parts you need. With a Chinese bike, you are pretty much left to your own devices. The ONLY company that offers any sort of support even close to this right now is CSC. Owners of Hawks, Bashans, and even to some extent SSR or Pitster Pro bikes, are kind of left standing naked in the middle of nowhere.

Then there are some bikes that I would LOVE to have in the U.S. that we simply don't get. The CFMoto 650NK comes to mind. Good suspension and brakes, power that is close to equal to it's class, and as far as I have read it is overall a good bike, if a bit heavier than the Japanese equivalents, but it's about 1500 to 2k cheaper with a sticker price around $5000-5500. While CF Moto is in the US, I have yet to see any of the new models up for sale, although I have seen some 2014 and 2015 bikes on CycleTrader. I would honestly love to get my hands on one for a daily/commuter bike.

[OUTERLIMITS]

Originally Posted by HawkTwoFifty

Does anyone know which Chinese assembly plants or Chinese manufacturers have been involved with assembling/producing dirt-bikes, motorcycles, or ATV's for Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, or Suzuki at the current time? And if so, do you know which Japanese models are involved?

I am under the firm belief now that certain Chinese assembly plants and manufacturers have been working closely with Japanese powersport companies and also produce their own Chinese products on-site which are very similar or identical to Japanese quality due to standards put upon them.

I am a HUGE powersports fan and seek Japanese quality, but do not think the RIDICULOUS prices for them are justified anymore. If I can find Chinese models which are close in quality standards to that of Japanese models, I will buy Chinese motorcycles, dirtbikes, and ATVs exclusivity for now on.

Does anyone know which Chinese powersports manufacturers or assembly plants are the ones chosen by Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, or Suzuki to produce certain models of Japanese products? I think this would be key info to finding inexpensive Chinese prices for Japanese outstanding reliability. Such a deal cannot be beat!!

Anyone have any info on this topic? Thanks.

I believe BMW and Norton use a Chinese sourced engine for one or more of their bikes, but don't recall who the manufacturer is. If I had to guess, I'd say Zongshen, but not sure.

[HawkTwoFifty]

Originally Posted by Megadan

From my experience, the Chinese companies that are involved with any production/assembly of Euro or Jap motorcycles or parts that do sell their own bikes are often priced not much less than said Japanese and Euro bikes of equal size/type.

In my experience, the biggest issues with most Chinese made bikes to date is never really anything big. Motor and transmission wise, brakes, and even suspension on some higher end bikes like the SSR 250 and 450's and the Pitster Pro LXR line are always fairly reliable.

The biggest issue with most Chinese bikes tends to be consistency with quality control, and sometimes cheaper materials. Again, this is usually only an issue with the lower end of the spectrum, such as the Hawk 250. Brittle plastics, and issues like the cush drive studs being mismatched in size, or inconsistently sized, or the snap ring groove is machined a fraction of a mm too far out and allowing for play.

The REAL issue with the majority of Chinese bikes is a lack of factory or dealer support. All manufacturers let bad products slip through the cracks from time to time, or have some sort of design flaw. With an American, Euro, or Japanese brand bike you can take it to a dealer that services them and have the issue resolved, or get the parts you need. With a Chinese bike, you are pretty much left to your own devices. The ONLY company that offers any sort of support even close to this right now is CSC. Owners of Hawks, Bashans, and even to some extent SSR or Pitster Pro bikes, are kind of left standing naked in the middle of nowhere.

Then there are some bikes that I would LOVE to have in the U.S. that we simply don't get. The CFMoto 650NK comes to mind. Good suspension and brakes, power that is close to equal to it's class, and as far as I have read it is overall a good bike, if a bit heavier than the Japanese equivalents, but it's about 1500 to 2k cheaper with a sticker price around $5000-5500. While CF Moto is in the US, I have yet to see any of the new models up for sale, although I have seen some 2014 and 2015 bikes on CycleTrader. I would honestly love to get my hands on one for a daily/commuter bike.

Great post Megadan, thank you for the info sir! I ordered a Hawk 250 which should be delivered tomorrow. I have heard many great reviews of it! If this bike is considered to be of a lower end of the spectrum, then my hopes are high to find Chinese bikes for much less cost than Japanese bikes in the future. This is my test-bike to test the waters. If it is fairly reliable for the price, I plan to buy Chinese atvs, dirtbikes, and motorcycles also in the future.

I wish that there was a Chinese motorcycle equivalent to a 600cc Japanese SuperSport bike. Thats what I would REALLY like to find!!

Thanks again!

[HawkTwoFifty]

Originally Posted by OUTERLIMITS

I believe BMW and Norton use a Chinese sourced engine for one or more of their bikes, but don't recall who the manufacturer is. If I had to guess, I'd say Zongshen, but not sure.

Thanks OUTERLIMITS for your reply! Would you happen to know if Zongshen makes the motor for the Hawk 250's? I believe that I read that a manufacturer named Haosen manufacturers the hawk 250, and that the motor is based on a Honda motor. I also hear that the Honda NXR 150 is very similar (and looks very much like it also) to this bike and was wondering if the Hawk 250 was actually made in the same facility as this Honda that is made in China. That would be nice to confirm.

Thanks!

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by HawkTwoFifty

Great post Megadan, thank you for the info sir! I ordered a Hawk 250 which should be delivered tomorrow. I have heard many great reviews of it! If this bike is considered to be of a lower end of the spectrum, then my hopes are high to find Chinese bikes for much less cost than Japanese bikes in the future. This is my test-bike to test the waters. If it is fairly reliable for the price, I plan to buy Chinese atvs, dirtbikes, and motorcycles also in the future.

I wish that there was a Chinese motorcycle equivalent to a 600cc Japanese SuperSport bike. Thats what I would REALLY like to find!!

Thanks again!

Saying the Hawk is on the low end is a relative thing. It is still a good bike, and probably one of the better of the cheap side of things. It still has some quality issues and a few cheap things can shine through, but they are all easy/cheap fixes. Otherwise they are solid and reliable bikes just lacking sone bells and whistles. The suspension is one are I feel they need a little more help with, but it is adequate as is.

[OUTERLIMITS]

Originally Posted by HawkTwoFifty

Thanks OUTERLIMITS for your reply! Would you happen to know if Zongshen makes the motor for the Hawk 250's? I believe that I read that a manufacturer named Haosen manufacturers the hawk 250, and that the motor is based on a Honda motor. I also hear that the Honda NXR 150 is very similar (and looks very much like it also) to this bike and was wondering if the Hawk 250 was actually made in the same facility as this Honda that is made in China. That would be nice to confirm.

Thanks!

I'm sorry I don't know the answer to that, but am sure someone here does. To me, the Hawk, Enforcer, Broz and a few others seem to be almost a carbon copy of the NXR. But when I look at pictures of the NXR150 compared to the Hawk, there are some things that look a little different. On the left engine case, the NXR looks a little different than the Hawk near where the starter is. On the right side, the Hawk seems to have a window to inspect oil level where the NXR does not. The front brakes look a bit different, the NXR has dual piston. The Hawk has a disc on the rear where the NXR is a drum. The plastics are close, but you can tell a little difference around the tank shroud.

My guess is that Haosen actually is the manufacturer of the bike, but perhaps with licensing to use the Honda engine design. I'd be willing to bet a boatload of parts will swap over between the two models though. If I owned a Hawk, one of the first things I would be doing would be to try and see if the Honda swing arm bushings/bearings would work on the Hawk.

[tonyscott123]

Zongshen have a relationship for parts and so on with Piaggio and Harley. I believe that Lifan had a tie-up with Yamaha.
Many manufacturers base their designs off common Honda, Yamaha and even Suzuki technology.

If you are a 'Motorsports' fan, I would think seriously about whether you are a fit with Chinese bikes, as most seem to be aimed at the cost conscious and utilitarian end of the market, and not at being the most advanced and sporting bikes out there.

So far I have owned 4 Chinese bikes, 5 European, and 8 Japanese bikes. I have also rented / borrowed several American (Harley), European, Japanese and Chinese bikes, putting thousands of miles on some of them. I have had good and bad Euro bikes, and good and bad chinabikes. All my Japanese bikes have been good.

I had a Zongshen Fly 200 in the Philippines (marketed under another name) which was the most fun for the bucks bike I have ever owned. Sold in several countries (like Thailand) as their 'international' model in 150 water-cooled and aircooled 200 / 250 models.
Really strong bike with good reliability and excellent features for a dual sport.
The air-cooled model is a Honda 'CBB' clone motor (overhead camshaft with balancer), had branded KYB suspension including upside-down forks, aluminum components such as footpeg hangers, handlebar (fatbar style), and more. Sprung gearshift lever, foot brake lever designed to withstand crash damage (tip will tear off without damaging the lever), and plenty more.
Reasonable tires as well.

But it substantially more expensive than the other 250 (a Lifan clone of the Yamaha TW200) marketed by the same distributor, which did not have nearly the same level of features and technology.

Here in South Africa, we have several local chinabke distributors. I picked up a Bashan Xplod '250' which uses the CG 230 clone motor. The basic level of components and parts on the Bashan are very substandard. The bike cost about the same here as the Zongshen cost me in the Philippines, but is nowhere near the same level of quality. As noted below, it's basically junk for anything other than short-haul round town work on smooth roads and low speeds.
The CG type '250' balance shaft motor makes less power than the Zongshen CBB 200: I get 10+ km/h lower top speed out of the Bashan than from the aircooled 200 Zongshen.

Basically, if you buy a Chinese bike:

1. Really make sure who is manufacturing it. There are many substandard manufacturers in China, and bits and pieces seem to be sourced from all over.

2. Evaluate the distributor. My impression is that most of the SA and USA distributors at the lower end of the price range are specifying low-end components to bring the price down, which severely impacts longevity and running costs. Talk to other owners as much as possible.

3. Parts: check if the distributor stocks parts (talk to other owners). If at all possible, check if there are other parts from other distributors that will fit. For example, the Bashan CG motor I have is virtually identical to the Zongshen distributed as the CSC TT250 in the USA. I can't even get a rear brake disk for my Bashan here in SA. I can get motor parts as it's identical to some other China bikes sold here.

4. If at all possible, check if the model being sold is distributed by the original manufacturer under their own brand name in other countries. Zongshen is prepared to stamp the 'Fly' model with their own name in several markets, and thus quality seems to be substantially better than on some models they supply to distributors only.

5. Check fit. Several chinabikes I have ridden (I have rented as well as owned) are too small for me, or have some weird ergonomic features, like kickstart levers that stick into your leg in normal riding conditions. The one exception to this was my Zongshen 200, which had almost perfect ergos for me for standing on dirt or faster riding on the street (I am 6'2 with 32" inseam).

6. Check with other owners for issues like vibration, stiff controls, substandard suspension action, poor brakes and so on. Several chinabikes I have ridden vibrate excessively or have stiff throttles, clutches and gear changes.

Make very sure that the specs meet your requirements. One issue with the CSC RX3 as a true offroad adventure bike is the limited (6") suspension travel, and another is the weight. I have also seen that less scrupulous distributors will sell incorrectly badged / specced products.
A friend bought a 200cc Chinese dual sport: when we checked the chassis and engine numbers, we found out that it was actually the 150 version of the same model, badged as the 200. The dealer took it back and replaced with the genuine article.

The Zongshen Fly I had I would heartily recommend if you can put up with the small tank and narrow seat.
The Rusi 125 scooter did we had in the Philippines was also excellent value for money, and did pretty much the same job as the equivalent Yamaha Mio 110 cc at half the price, if with a bit less sophistication.
The Haojue 125 'commercial' bike I had for a short time was kind of OK, but vibrated like a jackhammer, and wasn't something I would ride for pleasure.

The Bashan I have now, is basically junk. I have about 9K miles on it, and have replaced tires, tubes, chain and clutch at what I would consider well before their intended service life. The tires didn't stick and they didn't last. The tubes don't really hold air that well (had to be checked every week) and the chain lasted less than 2500 miles. The clutch seems to be specced for a 125 and not a 230.
The instruments failed (the replacement is also dodgy), the brakes needed work early on and the rear disk is totally shot (the rear master cylinder keeps rusting up internally and jamming on).
The suspension needed work front and back, the rear fender mount brackets broke off early on (a replacement would just fail again within 2k miles under bumpy road conditions), the rear frame cracked through where the rear end mounts to it.
The suspension even new was horrific on any sort of corrugated or bumpy dirt road, the front brake requires a major squeeze and even then will almost never lock the front tire with decent tires.
The wires break INSIDE the wiring harness, junk tires and tubes, junk chain (snapped at 2.5k miles), bad lights, clutch failed at 4K miles, suspension problems front and back (in addition to very poor quality).
The kick start is virtually useless (far to difficult to use), and eventually let go internally, necessitating breaking the engine cases to junk the broken pieces.

Although the Bashan LOOKS like a proper dual sport bike, I had to cancel all plans for a mountain tour in South Africa. I would have been far better off buying a Yamaha YBR125G for the same price. While it doesn't have the same acceleration off the line, it does hold an equivalent top speed, and it will easily handle poor road conditions that will break the Bashan.
Plus it is far lighter on fuel (35+ km/l compared to the Bashan's 22km/l under similar usage).


To summarize:

Not trying to put you off buying a Chinese bike, but do your homework, and be prepared to work on the bike yourself. Nearly all Chinese bikes I have seen should be properly checked over and tightened to spec on purchase (also check things like swing arm bearing and head bearing grease).

For me the upside is the lower price, the forced ability to learn to repair and service the bike yourself (which is a good thing when touring in remote areas), the simplicity of the designs, and often they have a certain old school 'character' that is missing on modern Euro and Japanese models.

My Zong had a very engaging 'thumperish', never-say-die personality, somewhat reminiscent of my Husky TE610E. And it crashed well
The 125 scooter we had was also fun to ride to and from town.
Even my Bashan can be pleasant on smooth surfaces and at lower speeds, once you learn to ride within it's parameters.