Templar 250 resource guide - Page 4

Okierider · 04-15-2023, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc3

What about replacement shocks? I am heavy and would like to replace at least the rear. Anyone know if there is there a cross reference bike?

Came here looking for this as well, or at least a new spring-I’m unfamiliar with how they are sized.

Fast_Freddy · 04-16-2023, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc3

What about replacement shocks? I am heavy and would like to replace at least the rear. Anyone know if there is there a cross reference bike?

Unfortunately I don't have any information on replacement suspension components or exact specs for the oem parts. Your best bet is to start a new thread about it and any useful information posted will be added here as it becomes available.

Another option is to contact Joe Henner Motorsports on Facebook. He offers suspension tuning for Chinese bikes. I got some fork preload spacers from him recently that helped immensely with my too-soft Templar forks (I weigh 250lbs). Good luck.

Thumper · 04-16-2023, 02:45 PM

The OEM spring on the KKE rear shock on the Templar is 350 lbs per inch. It is the stiffest spring available from KKE for that shock. I contacted KKE Racing
(2260 S. Haven Ave Unit B, Ontario California 91761, United States), but their primary motorcycle product for North America is wheels, not shocks. But they can get you a replacement shock.
KKE model number is MA40B03
He quoted me $169 plus $80 shipping
Ya I know, shipping is ridiculous, but these are OEM supplied by KKE, manufactured in China for motorcycle builders like Zuumav, Kamax, etc.

To figure out what spring could replace it (not KKE racing), measure the mounted length from end to end first, Then you can remove the shock and measure the internal diameter on the mounting ends. You can measure the length uncompressed when you have it out if you want to. Overall spring length is kind of important. It might be hard to find much stiffer spring though.

FYI- I compressed the shock by more than one inch and it was STIFF!!!

Chances are, all you really need to do is compress the preload.

Look at posts 12 through 14 in this thread for a how to on preload adjustment:
https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31860

Alternatively, The bolt diameter is 10mm (upper and lower rear shock mounts) and bushing length (22mm for the upper, and I think the lower one is identical - you can measure it). Find a shock with the same mounting bolt size, ~ same length or shorter if you want to lower it (1" shorter creates ~3" to 3-1/2" lowering). The only possible issue is the side mounted ballonet has to be at a slight angle to fit. Just get one without a ballonet to avoid that problem!.

Here are some specs I sent to KKE racing:
Some specifications:
-460mm distance from top to bottom mounting positions (center to center of mounting holes)
-10mm bolts top and bottom (mounting holes)
-22mm wide upper mount bushing
-350lbs/inch spring
-rebound adjustment is at the base of the cylinder on the lower mount
-compression adjustment is on the top of the ballonet

Thumper · 04-18-2023, 08:46 PM

Adjusting the valves on these SOHC 249cc 4 stroke engines is really easy. But depending on the make model you have, you may have to take stuff off to get to the head, more work than the adjustment in most cases!

So plan any other things you might want to do with the tank off.
The procedure described here can be applied to practically any OHC four stroke (push rod engines just need wider gaps), but this is written for the 172FMM-3A which is the OEM 5 speed engine on the Spring 2022 Templar X and currently on the Templar M and standard Templar. Same procedure applies to the 6 speed.

Templar X started to ship with a 6 speed counterbalanced version of this engine later last Summer, the ZS172FMM-5 (yeah I know, why -5 if it is a 6 speed!) but the valve adjustment is the same for ALL of the 172FMM engines, including the ones on other brands like Lifan.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heads UP! Start this task with almost empty fuel tank.

Not necessarily in exactly this order, here is what to do on the Templar:

-Take the seat off. Find the two 8mm bolts just behind the forward rack mount on the Templars.

-Remove the gas tank. Here comes the fun part. You need to drain the tank or have golf tees ready to plug the hoses as you remove them. This isn't all that complicated, so I am not going to give step by step instructions. The Golf Tees work!! So now you can remove the tank... Two 6mm allen bolts (one on each end of the tank) AND two more 8mm bolts at the front lower mounts for the air wings that mount to the black metal framed louvres. The gas tank rests forward on those wings nicely, off in the corner somewhere.

Now remove the right side metal wind louvre (two more 8mm bolts). OK, that is the worst of it. Now would be the time to replace the coil or other work under there if you need to.

-Take the spark plug out. This is optional, but it makes it much easier to get the crankshaft positioned TDC, and you can read the plug to see if you are running lean or rich.

-remove the access port on the left case, and put a 14mm socket on the nut that holds the flywheel/harmonic balancer/rotor on the crankshaft. Just in case you did not know, the stator is mounted inside this rotor.

-remove the view port on the top of the left case to see the timing marks for aligning TDC
Here is a photo showing these two ports BIG flathead screwdriver on the 5speed, 10mm allen wrench on the 6speed:

Click image for larger version

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-Counterclockwise rotation on the crank. I like to use a 3/8" breaker bar ($12 at Harbor Fright) to rotate the crank (14mm socket).

Click image for larger version

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This gives you extreme control on the position of the crank. The valve springs are strong, and the crank slips past TDC SOoo easily. Slow counterclockwise movement to keep the cam chain tensioned/valves closed at TDC.

-As you rotate the crank, watch for the T| mark on the rotor. Align the | just right of the T

Click image for larger version

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OK, It is a 4 stroke engine (2 revolutions), so either BOTH valves are closed (compression stroke), or just the intake valve is closed (exhaust stroke). You can rotate the crankshaft and watch the rocker arms as the crank approaches TDC.
Leave it at TDC with BOTH valves closed so you can adjust both of them. A 10mm nut locks the adjustment stem-loosen it. Adjust it with a little screwdriver to 0.002" on both (0.0015" is OK on the intake side).

Click image for larger version

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The tappet stem WILL tighten when you secure it with the 10mm locking nut if you don't hold it at position. Check it after you tension it. Gorilla tightening is NOT advised. Just snug it down and then another 1/8th turn to lock. Seriously, Don't. You don't want to replace these!

Close it all up and you are done.

Fast_Freddy · 05-19-2023, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc3

So I am still looking at this.. I appreciate your research.

Unfortunately the Templar and Templar M do not have preload adjustments.

I think the most cost effective solution is a replacement spring with more lbs per sq in.

Still kicking myself for not getting the X...

The Templar and M both have preload adjustment on the rear shock. Fork preload spacers are available from Joe Henner Motosports. You can contact him on Facebook. Here is a showing fork spacer installation. I myself am running Henner's max spacers which require a bit more disassembly to install but work great for my 250lb weight.

IA_Grvlrnr · 05-22-2023, 06:54 PM

Find yourself a Stainless Steel middle/Mid-Pipe Slip-On Connector Replacement for a Piaggio:

BEVERLY 125/300 2009-2016
MP3 125 2008-2014
MP3 250/250LT 2008-2013
MP3 300/300LT 2008-2016
X10 125 2012-2016

Found this 51mm/2" muffler adapter to work great. The O.D. of the stock exhaust pipe is ~32mm. It was available from a few sources with a search. You may need to fine tune the length depending on the dimensions of the muffler to get muffler mount to line up.

Twowheeler · 04-03-2024, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

The Templar and M both have preload adjustment on the rear shock. Fork preload spacers are available from Joe Henner Motosports. You can contact him on Facebook. Here is a showing fork spacer installation. I myself am running Henner's max spacers which require a bit more disassembly to install but work great for my 250lb weight.

My 2022 M that I got in March 2023, has no adjustments and no gas charge. I tried to put spring clamps on in order to remove, but couldn't. I just wish now, that I'd bought the X. Mine has no way of drilling a hole higher up.

Thumper · 09-22-2023, 11:03 PM

I see that your description has the rear frame pivoting, not removed. Your photos showed it entirely removed. But you still have to remove the muffler to pivot the frame. But as I said, you can easily remove the rear shock through the bottom. Just remove the top mounting bolt and the linkage. I have a spring compression tool so I can compress it and tighten the adjustment collar by hand. It is easier on those threads (aluminum), and reinstallation of the shock is easy.

And removing the carb is easy if you remove the exhaust. Removing the exhaust is easier than pivoting the frame too. It is just less work.

No need to mess with the rear frame.

K'hermiit · 12-23-2023, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GH

Does anybody know were I can find engine torque specs? I have tried everywhere including Joe Henner, GPX , and even Zuma. I want to install a 300cc big bore kit but, I need to Know the Engine Torque Specifications.

When no info is available, I use the fastener size and the threaded material to determine torque values. I have never experienced a failure doing this in 30 years.

Example for metric bolts...

Thumper · 01-05-2024, 12:11 PM

Here are measurements taken by GigaXi with photos:
Thank you!

https://www.chinariders.net/showpost...4&postcount=11

Thumper · 02-05-2024, 05:12 PM

I am posting this youtube video from youtube. He does a nice job demonstrating and discussing assembly, and he has lots of comments on the components, suspension. He has the 172FMM-3A (5 speed), which I have on my original Templar X. You have to go to youtube to view the video.

Hold the control key while clicking if it gives you any trouble

======https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcVDa25F1jE======

This review is complete and he has lots of info with links for upgrades (Thanks!)

Weresquatch · 02-06-2024, 03:28 PM

Thanks for dropping that link. That's the video that made me pull the trigger. I live in the same state and surrounded by the same terrain.

**JerryHawk250** · 02-19-2024, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GypsyR

Link just goes to "Superoffers.com's" landing page.
Is this the shifter? https://www.amazon.com/Akozon-Alumin.../dp/B09Y88TB4Y

I only have this problem on my laptop and not every time. If you press the ctrl key when clicking on the link, the link will work properly.

04-16-2023, 02:45 PM	#3
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,268	The OEM spring on the KKE rear shock on the Templar is 350 lbs per inch. It is the stiffest spring available from KKE for that shock. I contacted KKE Racing (2260 S. Haven Ave Unit B, Ontario California 91761, United States), but their primary motorcycle product for North America is wheels, not shocks. But they can get you a replacement shock. KKE model number is MA40B03 He quoted me $169 plus $80 shipping Ya I know, shipping is ridiculous, but these are OEM supplied by KKE, manufactured in China for motorcycle builders like Zuumav, Kamax, etc. To figure out what spring could replace it (not KKE racing), measure the mounted length from end to end first, Then you can remove the shock and measure the internal diameter on the mounting ends. You can measure the length uncompressed when you have it out if you want to. Overall spring length is kind of important. It might be hard to find much stiffer spring though. FYI- I compressed the shock by more than one inch and it was STIFF!!! Chances are, all you really need to do is compress the preload. Look at posts 12 through 14 in this thread for a how to on preload adjustment: https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31860 Alternatively, The bolt diameter is 10mm (upper and lower rear shock mounts) and bushing length (22mm for the upper, and I think the lower one is identical - you can measure it). Find a shock with the same mounting bolt size, ~ same length or shorter if you want to lower it (1" shorter creates ~3" to 3-1/2" lowering). The only possible issue is the side mounted ballonet has to be at a slight angle to fit. Just get one without a ballonet to avoid that problem!. Here are some specs I sent to KKE racing: Some specifications: -460mm distance from top to bottom mounting positions (center to center of mounting holes) -10mm bolts top and bottom (mounting holes) -22mm wide upper mount bushing -350lbs/inch spring -rebound adjustment is at the base of the cylinder on the lower mount -compression adjustment is on the top of the ballonet __________________ -2022 5 speed Templar X Orange, OEM 51T rear sprocket, 14T front sprocket -NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross), less than 10 hours on it
	1

04-18-2023, 08:46 PM	#4
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,268	Valve Adjustment Adjusting the valves on these SOHC 249cc 4 stroke engines is really easy. But depending on the make model you have, you may have to take stuff off to get to the head, more work than the adjustment in most cases! So plan any other things you might want to do with the tank off. The procedure described here can be applied to practically any OHC four stroke (push rod engines just need wider gaps), but this is written for the 172FMM-3A which is the OEM 5 speed engine on the Spring 2022 Templar X and currently on the Templar M and standard Templar. Same procedure applies to the 6 speed. Templar X started to ship with a 6 speed counterbalanced version of this engine later last Summer, the ZS172FMM-5 (yeah I know, why -5 if it is a 6 speed!) but the valve adjustment is the same for ALL of the 172FMM engines, including the ones on other brands like Lifan. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heads UP! Start this task with almost empty fuel tank. Not necessarily in exactly this order, here is what to do on the Templar: -Take the seat off. Find the two 8mm bolts just behind the forward rack mount on the Templars. -Remove the gas tank. Here comes the fun part. You need to drain the tank or have golf tees ready to plug the hoses as you remove them. This isn't all that complicated, so I am not going to give step by step instructions. The Golf Tees work!! So now you can remove the tank... Two 6mm allen bolts (one on each end of the tank) AND two more 8mm bolts at the front lower mounts for the air wings that mount to the black metal framed louvres. The gas tank rests forward on those wings nicely, off in the corner somewhere. Now remove the right side metal wind louvre (two more 8mm bolts). OK, that is the worst of it. Now would be the time to replace the coil or other work under there if you need to. -Take the spark plug out. This is optional, but it makes it much easier to get the crankshaft positioned TDC, and you can read the plug to see if you are running lean or rich. -remove the access port on the left case, and put a 14mm socket on the nut that holds the flywheel/harmonic balancer/rotor on the crankshaft. Just in case you did not know, the stator is mounted inside this rotor. -remove the view port on the top of the left case to see the timing marks for aligning TDC Here is a photo showing these two ports BIG flathead screwdriver on the 5speed, 10mm allen wrench on the 6speed: -Counterclockwise rotation on the crank. I like to use a 3/8" breaker bar ($12 at Harbor Fright) to rotate the crank (14mm socket). This gives you extreme control on the position of the crank. The valve springs are strong, and the crank slips past TDC SOoo easily. Slow counterclockwise movement to keep the cam chain tensioned/valves closed at TDC. -As you rotate the crank, watch for the T\| mark on the rotor. Align the \| just right of the T OK, It is a 4 stroke engine (2 revolutions), so either BOTH valves are closed (compression stroke), or just the intake valve is closed (exhaust stroke). You can rotate the crankshaft and watch the rocker arms as the crank approaches TDC. Leave it at TDC with BOTH valves closed so you can adjust both of them. A 10mm nut locks the adjustment stem-loosen it. Adjust it with a little screwdriver to 0.002" on both (0.0015" is OK on the intake side). The tappet stem WILL tighten when you secure it with the 10mm locking nut if you don't hold it at position. Check it after you tension it. Gorilla tightening is NOT advised. Just snug it down and then another 1/8th turn to lock. Seriously, Don't. You don't want to replace these! Close it all up and you are done. __________________ -2022 5 speed Templar X Orange, OEM 51T rear sprocket, 14T front sprocket -NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross), less than 10 hours on it Last edited by Thumper; 03-14-2024 at 06:22 AM.
	9

05-22-2023, 06:54 PM	#6
IA_Grvlrnr Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Lisbon, IA Posts: 24	Slip on "any" 51mm/2" inlet muffler Find yourself a Stainless Steel middle/Mid-Pipe Slip-On Connector Replacement for a Piaggio: BEVERLY 125/300 2009-2016 MP3 125 2008-2014 MP3 250/250LT 2008-2013 MP3 300/300LT 2008-2016 X10 125 2012-2016 Found this 51mm/2" muffler adapter to work great. The O.D. of the stock exhaust pipe is ~32mm. It was available from a few sources with a search. You may need to fine tune the length depending on the dimensions of the muffler to get muffler mount to line up. Attached Thumbnails __________________ 2022.5 X-pro Templar-X 6 speed undergoing break-in. 130 main, 42 idle, shimmed needle .042", 2.5 turns out mixture. 142T rear sprocket. CAT delete "kit". Modified starter interlock. 2022 Pioneer SHNG - SSR XF250. Sigma Jet Kit, Muffler & Air inject delete.
	4

09-22-2023, 11:03 PM	#8
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,268	I see that your description has the rear frame pivoting, not removed. Your photos showed it entirely removed. But you still have to remove the muffler to pivot the frame. But as I said, you can easily remove the rear shock through the bottom. Just remove the top mounting bolt and the linkage. I have a spring compression tool so I can compress it and tighten the adjustment collar by hand. It is easier on those threads (aluminum), and reinstallation of the shock is easy. And removing the carb is easy if you remove the exhaust. Removing the exhaust is easier than pivoting the frame too. It is just less work. No need to mess with the rear frame. __________________ -2022 5 speed Templar X Orange, OEM 51T rear sprocket, 14T front sprocket -NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross), less than 10 hours on it Last edited by Thumper; 10-05-2023 at 02:59 PM.
	0

01-05-2024, 12:11 PM	#10
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,268	Intake Boot dimensions! Here are measurements taken by GigaXi with photos: Thank you! https://www.chinariders.net/showpost...4&postcount=11 __________________ -2022 5 speed Templar X Orange, OEM 51T rear sprocket, 14T front sprocket -NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross), less than 10 hours on it
	3

02-05-2024, 05:12 PM	#11
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,268	Uncrating, build, test ride-standard Templar I am posting this youtube video from youtube. He does a nice job demonstrating and discussing assembly, and he has lots of comments on the components, suspension. He has the 172FMM-3A (5 speed), which I have on my original Templar X. You have to go to youtube to view the video. Hold the control key while clicking if it gives you any trouble ======https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcVDa25F1jE====== This review is complete and he has lots of info with links for upgrades (Thanks!) __________________ -2022 5 speed Templar X Orange, OEM 51T rear sprocket, 14T front sprocket -NOS 2020 KTM 250SX (2-stroke motocross), less than 10 hours on it Last edited by Thumper; 03-14-2024 at 06:30 AM.
	1

02-06-2024, 03:28 PM	#12
Weresquatch Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 93	Thanks for dropping that link. That's the video that made me pull the trigger. I live in the same state and surrounded by the same terrain.
	0