TT (Tao Tao) ATA-250E Impressions

Skripo · 06-09-2009, 10:58 PM

Hello all,

I just took delivery of a brand new ATA-250E made by TT:

http://www.canadattatv.com/ATA250E.html

I had bought an ATA-125H just 3 weeks before:

http://www.canadattatv.com/ATA125-H.html

I was very impressed by the 125. Yes it's not a name brand but the engineering was solid, even if the welding looks like it was done by a 12 year old, the frame and fasteners are already rusting. I had a few niggling bolt problems at first but once I broke it in, changed the spark plug, adjusted the carb, it ran like a top and made great power. It seems very solid and rides great. I plan to strip it down this winter to repaint the frame and change out the rusty fasteners. I love wrenching so this a plus for me!

I modded the neutral and gear lights becasue they where simply not visible. I over engineered it but it is easy to do. Simply push out the rubber light then pry off the chrome plastic top. Buy a super bright led and replace the one in there. Reuse the resistor and you are good to go.

I plan on swapping out the carb with a mikuni and adding a remote choke and some other features using parts form another model. New shocks and wheels would be great but those are expensive and kind of defeat the purpose of buying a discount quad.

In any case I was so happy I bought the ATA-250E to follow my son around. The 250 exceeded my expectations, except for the shocks, which are a joke and a few missing washers and bolts. It was delivered in a metal type of crate that took a few good hits but the quad itself was undamaged.

The lack of any type of manual made it tough to be sure where every part went but most are obvious. It took 2 hours to put together and I just can't believe the value. I am so happy with the TT and the parts availability that I plan on getting a third one. I will tell you all more when I ride it this weekend.

TurboT · 06-10-2009, 01:40 AM

Looking forward to the ride report!!

Have to love the lack of an assembly manual or guide on something capable of 80km/h plus! I'd hate to see what someone who has no wrench skills puts together and tries to ride...hell, I was reading on the site I bought mine someone fired there's up with the chinese shipping oil still in it... YIKES!!

Skripo · 06-13-2009, 02:28 AM

I finally got the ATA-250E to start after I replaced the solenoid and battery. Let me qualify that by saying that I am in impatient retard. Now that we have that out the way I can continue.

I assembled the quad without instructions but relatively little hassle. Forgot to note the tire rotation direction so I had to swap them but other than that and not being sure where a washer went I was good to go.

Being uber excited to go out with my son on his ATA-125H I filled the battery with acid and tried to start it. As expected it was a no go so I borrowed my neighbors massive car battery charger and pumped it with 12 amps. I cranked it forever until a quick call to my dealers mechanic let me in on the secret ignition kill switch that was masquerading as a left over turn signal switch.

Being too excited to fully utilize my powers of reasoning, I took off to the trails with my son trailing me on his machine, where I promptly stalled. By this time the battery was toast and the solenoid was fried. Poor kid had to rush home and get a rope to pull me home. Boy did I feel like an ass!

The next day he calls me at work to make sure we are going riding and I assure him we will. Problem is that I get home and can't start it! So I run out and buy a new $60.00 battery and my dealer, Mini Moto Depot in Laval, hands me a new solenoid no questions asked. What a guy!

Not wanting to repeat my previous error I charged the battery with a 1 amp charger and replaced the solenoid, and installed an NGK plug. I let it charge overnight and it started and restarted reliably enough for me to get to the trails.

We rode for over an hour on private land through forests and sand pits with no issues and the machine handled great. It is definitively a huge step up from the ATA-125 both power and size, although it is not that much physically bigger.

The engine seemed to have plenty of power given my 250 pound weight and slow riding style but it clearly needs to break in so I can adjust the carb. as it bogs and the plug is black. So here it is:

The Good:

- Inexpensive ($1500 delivered, tax in)
- Nice looking
- Loncin branded engine (Honda clone)
- Crisp gear shift (After oil change, was horrendous before)
- Generally good design
- Fun to ride

The Bad:

- Horrendous quality control (no big surprise)
- Rear fender stud snapped off in shipping due to seemingly incorrect foot well design
- Horrible gear indicator lights (again no surprise)

Verdict:

Very happy with value but will need tweaking to get panels to fit, clutch loosened, and gears to shift better. I will do my usual gear selection light mod and should be good to go.

Update to follow after carb adjustment.

EDIT: Moved shifting from bad to good after oil change, clutch issue resolved by spraying WD-40 into cable.

KentuckyDonkey · 06-14-2009, 12:29 AM

Congrats on the new bike!

If it's bogging and the plug is black, it's not going to get any better by itself- and it will just make it hartder/impossible to break the engine in properly.

Check the bolts where the intake manifold mounts to the engine, and the bolts that mount the carb to the manifold. I'd almost be willing to bet that one or more are loose (thus not getting a good seal and sucking in too much air- requiring the carb to have been set very rich at the fac tory to make it run)

Take the carb off, open 'er up...clean it out good with a can of carb cleaner- spraying through all the jets and passages. Turn the mixture screw all the way in till ya can't turns it no more [Popeye], then back it out two complete turns. Check your float for proper action (could be the cause of bogging, if it's shutting off the gas too soon).

Reassemble and reinstall, and the bike should run like a charm- idling properly and not bogging.

If you are not familiar with carbs, don't worry- these things are so simple you can figure them out just by looking at them. Belive me, when you open it up and take a look- it will become readily apparent how it works (including the float)- they're only made of a handful of parts (We're not talking about a Quadrajet here!

)

I've learned after having three Chinese bikes, that you take thge carb off and clean and adjust, and check the manifold/mounting bolts as a matter of routine assembly procedure.

Skripo · 06-15-2009, 11:48 PM

Thank you very much for the detailed response.

I intend to take out the carb and go through it. I have done a couple of seadoo ones so am not afraid to tear into it. I will be pulling it this weekend but I suspect the main needle c clip is improperly set since the only problem I have is when it transitions to WOT. I am planning on getting a Mikuni 30 but I will try and fix mine first.

I have read a couple of accounts of people experiencing radical performance improvements with a carb swap but I suspect most of those improvements are due to the upgrade carb being properly calibrated when it leaves the factory. I don't doubt a smoother idle and better response over a Chinese carb however.

What are the standard c clip settings for the PZ27? The quad idles perfectly and runs great but strangely, adjusting the air mixture does absolutely nothing, does this give you any clues as to what is going on internally? Lastly do you have a good exploded view of the PZ27?

Thanks again.

KentuckyDonkey · 06-16-2009, 01:29 AM

I don't think it's your E-clip. If it were an idling problem, then maybe.

It's probably the float- it's not letting enough gas into the bowl- so no matter how much you richen the mixture, it isn't helping. That and/or some dirt in there.

What I did on mine, was hook a piece of fuel line up to the fuel inlet (after the carb was opened up) and I blew through it, while raising the float, to see when it was shutting off the flow. Mine was shutting off way too soon. You don't want the float to shut off the flow completely till it is very near the top of it's travel. You adjust it by bending the little flange that rests against the needle (readily aparent when you look at it).

There was also a fly's wing or something inside one of the passages on mine- even though it was brand new!!

Don't forget to recalibrate after reassembling, as described in my previous post.

I'm 99.9% sure it's your float. If it runs fine except when you really give it gas...that's about all it can be.

Skripo · 06-16-2009, 08:49 PM

Thanks KD! I will try this weekend and report back.

KentuckyDonkey · 06-16-2009, 09:52 PM

You're very welcome. Good luck, and do let us know how it goes!

(Don't forget to check the carb and intake mounting bolts!!)

Skripo · 06-17-2009, 07:55 PM

Just tore it apart and no dice. It still dies at full throttle. Will a 30mm bolt right up?

Skripo · 07-01-2009, 09:43 PM

KD,

Tried the float test and you where right, shuts off at 1/4 throttle. I didn't put it back in because I bought a 30mm Mikuni and matching 30mm manifold off ebay. Will update on results.

KentuckyDonkey · 07-01-2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skripo

KD,

Tried the float test and you where right, shuts off at 1/4 throttle. I didn't put it back in because I bought a 30mm Mikuni and matching 30mm manifold off ebay. Will update on results.

Sorry I didn't get back here sooner!

Hehe....yep....thaty float shutting off a quarter of the way up will do it every time! That's exactly what mine was doing/ Considering how early it was shutting off...it's amazing that the darn things even run at quarter throttle!

Can't wait to hear how the 30mm works out- I'll bet it will scream! (Might want to save some trouble and take the 30mm apart before putting it on...there's a good chance that it will suffer from the same malady)

Good luck, and let us know!

Skripo · 07-04-2009, 02:17 AM

I bent the lip but went to far and the carb flooded at wot. Gave up and put on the Mikuni 30mm. OH MY GOD, what a difference.

Highly recommended. Unfortunately the ebay yahoo shipped me 27mm manifold instead of the 30mm I ordered so i am not getting the full benefit.

Will update when the right one comes in.

lonezuk · 07-18-2009, 12:54 AM

How are the front joints on the 250, is there any play in them, in any direction ?

Skripo · 07-19-2009, 10:27 PM

A ton. Every time I start or stop there is a ton of clunking and the steering is downright dangerous on the trails.

Everyone is terrified of the machine so I am stuck riding it. There is too much steering and if you turn too much the wheel grabs the frame and stops in it's tracks.

I need to rip it down and put it back together again, machine is a lot of work but I still like it.

lonezuk · 07-20-2009, 11:26 AM

Have you used it on rutted/rocky mountain trails ?

If yes, did you have a hard time keeping it traveling the direction that you wanted ?

Do you have any chain issues, loose when the suspension is compressed fully and binding when the suspension is fully extended ?

06-09-2009, 10:58 PM	#1
Skripo Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 39	TT (Tao Tao) ATA-250E Impressions Hello all, I just took delivery of a brand new ATA-250E made by TT: http://www.canadattatv.com/ATA250E.html I had bought an ATA-125H just 3 weeks before: http://www.canadattatv.com/ATA125-H.html I was very impressed by the 125. Yes it's not a name brand but the engineering was solid, even if the welding looks like it was done by a 12 year old, the frame and fasteners are already rusting. I had a few niggling bolt problems at first but once I broke it in, changed the spark plug, adjusted the carb, it ran like a top and made great power. It seems very solid and rides great. I plan to strip it down this winter to repaint the frame and change out the rusty fasteners. I love wrenching so this a plus for me! I modded the neutral and gear lights becasue they where simply not visible. I over engineered it but it is easy to do. Simply push out the rubber light then pry off the chrome plastic top. Buy a super bright led and replace the one in there. Reuse the resistor and you are good to go. I plan on swapping out the carb with a mikuni and adding a remote choke and some other features using parts form another model. New shocks and wheels would be great but those are expensive and kind of defeat the purpose of buying a discount quad. In any case I was so happy I bought the ATA-250E to follow my son around. The 250 exceeded my expectations, except for the shocks, which are a joke and a few missing washers and bolts. It was delivered in a metal type of crate that took a few good hits but the quad itself was undamaged. The lack of any type of manual made it tough to be sure where every part went but most are obvious. It took 2 hours to put together and I just can't believe the value. I am so happy with the TT and the parts availability that I plan on getting a third one. I will tell you all more when I ride it this weekend.
	0

06-13-2009, 02:28 AM	#3
Skripo Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 39	Finally rode after many user induced problems I finally got the ATA-250E to start after I replaced the solenoid and battery. Let me qualify that by saying that I am in impatient retard. Now that we have that out the way I can continue. I assembled the quad without instructions but relatively little hassle. Forgot to note the tire rotation direction so I had to swap them but other than that and not being sure where a washer went I was good to go. Being uber excited to go out with my son on his ATA-125H I filled the battery with acid and tried to start it. As expected it was a no go so I borrowed my neighbors massive car battery charger and pumped it with 12 amps. I cranked it forever until a quick call to my dealers mechanic let me in on the secret ignition kill switch that was masquerading as a left over turn signal switch. Being too excited to fully utilize my powers of reasoning, I took off to the trails with my son trailing me on his machine, where I promptly stalled. By this time the battery was toast and the solenoid was fried. Poor kid had to rush home and get a rope to pull me home. Boy did I feel like an ass! The next day he calls me at work to make sure we are going riding and I assure him we will. Problem is that I get home and can't start it! So I run out and buy a new $60.00 battery and my dealer, Mini Moto Depot in Laval, hands me a new solenoid no questions asked. What a guy! Not wanting to repeat my previous error I charged the battery with a 1 amp charger and replaced the solenoid, and installed an NGK plug. I let it charge overnight and it started and restarted reliably enough for me to get to the trails. We rode for over an hour on private land through forests and sand pits with no issues and the machine handled great. It is definitively a huge step up from the ATA-125 both power and size, although it is not that much physically bigger. The engine seemed to have plenty of power given my 250 pound weight and slow riding style but it clearly needs to break in so I can adjust the carb. as it bogs and the plug is black. So here it is: The Good: - Inexpensive ($1500 delivered, tax in) - Nice looking - Loncin branded engine (Honda clone) - Crisp gear shift (After oil change, was horrendous before) - Generally good design - Fun to ride The Bad: - Horrendous quality control (no big surprise) - Rear fender stud snapped off in shipping due to seemingly incorrect foot well design - Horrible gear indicator lights (again no surprise) Verdict: Very happy with value but will need tweaking to get panels to fit, clutch loosened, and gears to shift better. I will do my usual gear selection light mod and should be good to go. Update to follow after carb adjustment. EDIT: Moved shifting from bad to good after oil change, clutch issue resolved by spraying WD-40 into cable.
	0

06-10-2009, 01:40 AM	#2
TurboT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Posts: 2,185	Looking forward to the ride report!! Have to love the lack of an assembly manual or guide on something capable of 80km/h plus! I'd hate to see what someone who has no wrench skills puts together and tries to ride...hell, I was reading on the site I bought mine someone fired there's up with the chinese shipping oil still in it... YIKES!!
	0

06-14-2009, 12:29 AM	#4
KentuckyDonkey Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 331	Congrats on the new bike! If it's bogging and the plug is black, it's not going to get any better by itself- and it will just make it hartder/impossible to break the engine in properly. Check the bolts where the intake manifold mounts to the engine, and the bolts that mount the carb to the manifold. I'd almost be willing to bet that one or more are loose (thus not getting a good seal and sucking in too much air- requiring the carb to have been set very rich at the fac tory to make it run) Take the carb off, open 'er up...clean it out good with a can of carb cleaner- spraying through all the jets and passages. Turn the mixture screw all the way in till ya can't turns it no more [Popeye], then back it out two complete turns. Check your float for proper action (could be the cause of bogging, if it's shutting off the gas too soon). Reassemble and reinstall, and the bike should run like a charm- idling properly and not bogging. If you are not familiar with carbs, don't worry- these things are so simple you can figure them out just by looking at them. Belive me, when you open it up and take a look- it will become readily apparent how it works (including the float)- they're only made of a handful of parts (We're not talking about a Quadrajet here! ) I've learned after having three Chinese bikes, that you take thge carb off and clean and adjust, and check the manifold/mounting bolts as a matter of routine assembly procedure.
	0

06-15-2009, 11:48 PM	#5
Skripo Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 39	Thank you very much for the detailed response. I intend to take out the carb and go through it. I have done a couple of seadoo ones so am not afraid to tear into it. I will be pulling it this weekend but I suspect the main needle c clip is improperly set since the only problem I have is when it transitions to WOT. I am planning on getting a Mikuni 30 but I will try and fix mine first. I have read a couple of accounts of people experiencing radical performance improvements with a carb swap but I suspect most of those improvements are due to the upgrade carb being properly calibrated when it leaves the factory. I don't doubt a smoother idle and better response over a Chinese carb however. What are the standard c clip settings for the PZ27? The quad idles perfectly and runs great but strangely, adjusting the air mixture does absolutely nothing, does this give you any clues as to what is going on internally? Lastly do you have a good exploded view of the PZ27? Thanks again.
	0

06-16-2009, 01:29 AM	#6
KentuckyDonkey Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 331	I don't think it's your E-clip. If it were an idling problem, then maybe. It's probably the float- it's not letting enough gas into the bowl- so no matter how much you richen the mixture, it isn't helping. That and/or some dirt in there. What I did on mine, was hook a piece of fuel line up to the fuel inlet (after the carb was opened up) and I blew through it, while raising the float, to see when it was shutting off the flow. Mine was shutting off way too soon. You don't want the float to shut off the flow completely till it is very near the top of it's travel. You adjust it by bending the little flange that rests against the needle (readily aparent when you look at it). There was also a fly's wing or something inside one of the passages on mine- even though it was brand new!! Don't forget to recalibrate after reassembling, as described in my previous post. I'm 99.9% sure it's your float. If it runs fine except when you really give it gas...that's about all it can be.
	0

06-16-2009, 08:49 PM	#7
Skripo Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 39	Thanks KD! I will try this weekend and report back.
	0

06-16-2009, 09:52 PM	#8
KentuckyDonkey Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 331	You're very welcome. Good luck, and do let us know how it goes! (Don't forget to check the carb and intake mounting bolts!!)
	0

06-17-2009, 07:55 PM	#9
Skripo Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 39	Just tore it apart and no dice. It still dies at full throttle. Will a 30mm bolt right up?
	0

07-01-2009, 09:43 PM	#10
Skripo Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 39	KD, Tried the float test and you where right, shuts off at 1/4 throttle. I didn't put it back in because I bought a 30mm Mikuni and matching 30mm manifold off ebay. Will update on results.
	0

07-04-2009, 02:17 AM	#12
Skripo Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 39	I bent the lip but went to far and the carb flooded at wot. Gave up and put on the Mikuni 30mm. OH MY GOD, what a difference. Highly recommended. Unfortunately the ebay yahoo shipped me 27mm manifold instead of the 30mm I ordered so i am not getting the full benefit. Will update when the right one comes in.
	0

07-18-2009, 12:54 AM	#13
lonezuk Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 19	How are the front joints on the 250, is there any play in them, in any direction ?
	0

07-19-2009, 10:27 PM	#14
Skripo Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 39	A ton. Every time I start or stop there is a ton of clunking and the steering is downright dangerous on the trails. Everyone is terrified of the machine so I am stuck riding it. There is too much steering and if you turn too much the wheel grabs the frame and stops in it's tracks. I need to rip it down and put it back together again, machine is a lot of work but I still like it.
	0

07-20-2009, 11:26 AM	#15
lonezuk Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 19	Have you used it on rutted/rocky mountain trails ? If yes, did you have a hard time keeping it traveling the direction that you wanted ? Do you have any chain issues, loose when the suspension is compressed fully and binding when the suspension is fully extended ?
	0