This could be a ride suggestion. National Ride to Work Day.

[katoranger]

http://www.ridetowork.org/

I may have to borrow a bike.

[Jim]

Does it mention why they advocate riding to work? I didn't see that mentioned anywhere. Other then personal enjoyment I don't know what factor they would be using to advocate it. Not that I am against riding to work.

[katoranger]

Mission:
We are a 501 c4 non-profit organization, advocating and supporting the use of motorcycles and scooters for transportation, and providing information about everyday utility riding to the public.


In the little video they are advocating to improve awareness of motorcycles and scooters for daily transportation based on costs/environmentally friendly. Also improving safety of motorcyclists.

I just thought it was a good day to ride a bike too.

Scooters may be alittle funny looking, but are truly practical low maintenance machines. I might try to talk my wife into letting me get one. Better suited to my commuting needs than a dual sport.

Allen

[Jim]

Oh ok, I only read, I didn't watch the video. So basically, I don't think they have any facts, because according to what I've read, most motorcycles pollute more per km then then a car. Motorcycles also typically cost more to insure, and you end up having to buy a second vehicle if you also have a car or truck, so it sort of blows the cost argument out of the water. Granted they use less gas per km, so you do see some savings there, but if you look at the big picture I don't think you see it.


Here's a quote from a motorcycle instructor on another forum discussing why people ride motorcycles and the same conclusions as I had.

So, Cheaper to operate? Probabaly not. Km for Km, I really doubt it. Compare a basic commuter car to your average motorcycle? The car lasts at least 2-4 times as long. (km-wise), it has tires that last 80,000km or more per set, it gets 60% of the fuel mileage (or better) and costs the same or less to insure. So for the 200,000km+ life span of a commuter car, you have to buy 2-4 bikes to last that many kms. And put 10-15 sets of tires on them. (Instead of 2 or 3 on the car) And buy riding gear and replace it at least once or twice. Etc, etc, etc. Cheaper? Nope.

More environmentally friendly? Nope. Bikes are not yet held to NEARLY the same level of emissions standards that cars are. Km for Km, new bikes emit far more pollutants than new cars do, even though they burn less fuel. (But they are getting better) Try comparing a bike to a ULEV. It's scary. Not to mention so many riders modify their bikes, changing fuel and exhaust systems for more power, better sound, and yep, likely even MORE pollutants as things like catalytic converters get removed, pair valves get removed, carbs get rejetted, etc.

[katoranger]

I agree with you on the cost to operate a motorcycle. Most bikes have higher maintenance costs and are not as clean burning.

My motorcycle insurance is much less than car insurance though. Alot of cars are capable of 40mpg too.

The little scooters for short trips around town might be able to save some money.

[SpudRider]

I agree that purchasing most motorcycles will not save the consumer any money. In the summer of 2007, gasoline prices surpassed $4.00/gallon in Idaho; the high cost of fuel prompted me to once again buy a motorcycle. However, at that time, an experienced rider explained to me how expensive it can be to own a typical motorcycle! After examining the purchase price, and the operating costs associated with most motorcyles, I decided to buy my Zongshen 200GY-2.

If you do your own maintenance, owning a scooter, or a small-displacement motorcycle with a single cylinder, air-cooled engine, can be fairly inexpensive. The Chinese have traditionally produced motorcycles for their domestic market, which demands inexpensive vehicles with low operating costs. This is why so many Chinese motorcycles represent such an exceptional value; they are relatively inexpensive, and they cost little to operate. However, if you buy a typical, high-displacement, Japanese motorcycle, you will definitely not be saving any money over operating an automobile.

Spud

[BillR]

'Twould be interesting to research the numbers more. I might give it a go and see what comes up.
Compared to the "usual" car driver here in Nashville, I'm saving a bundle by riding the bike.
Take the people I work with:
1: typical cars are sport SUV or touring sedans (not that great gas mileage),
2:"name" brands, financed, big payments
3: Insurance is "a lot" per talking with them and my experience when I had the cars financed.
4: over $35/month to park at work.
5: They plan to trade in 4-5 years, so there goes the 200k miles argument.

On the bike:
1: I paid cash so no payments
2: My insurance is less than $150 per year
3: I get 50 mpg on the 650, 70 on the 200
4: I don't pay for parking and I'm just outside the doors.
5: I'll ride til the wheels fall off and pay cash for another bike.

Agreed that the maintanence costs for the bikes stack up pretty quick.
I'll shop for satisfactory replacement parts.
I don't need to drag my knee on every curve, so I'll use tires that last longer, etc....
Bill

[Q]

Motorcycles are still the cheapest way for me to commute. 70 mpg, $75 a year for insurance, but tire prices suck. I go through at least 2 tires a year on the Lifan GY5. Next year I'm going to see if the comparatively low powered Hensim 250 street bike does better on tires, keeping the Lifan for mostly off road riding.

Q

[Jim]

There's so many factors though, I think the cost comparison I quoted was generalizing and towards typical cruiser / sport bike riders. Not dual sports, and especially not Chinese ones at that.

Though for comparison... Both my GY5 and GY6 cost more to buy then my care.

Insurance on one of my Chinese bikes here was around $450 a year, with no theft / comprehensive insurance, my car with all the insurance options was I believe around $1100 for the year. That is more, but if you look at the insurance cost for my 800cc Kawasaki cruiser, it is higher then the car. The gas mileage on the bike is better, but the car isn't too much of a pig either. The thing is I own both, so if the only reason to have the bike was to save money commuting, you would have to add the cost of the bike, insurance and maintenance and compare that to the savings in gas.

[katoranger]

Also needed to be considered is the climate one lives in. Here in GA I could ride 90% of the year easily with proper gear, but in many northern states and Canada that is not possible. Snow/Ice covered roads make it too dangerous.

I too saved a bundle riding my lifan for 2.5 years of commuting. Biggest costs were tires, but even then I didn't get the cheapest ones.

I think someone would have a hard time saving money on a bike with more than 400cc. Many cars get 40mpg and carry 5 people.


Allen

[Ric]

I have an LF200 that I use to commute to and from work on most days. A lot would seem to depend on the size of the bike - a 1300cc high-performance machine is unlikely to save you anything...but I definitely come out a lot better at the end of the month if I use my little 200cc as much as possible! :wink:

[katoranger]

I think it would be hard to justify anything larger than a 500cc for commuting and saving money.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by katoranger

I think it would be hard to justify anything larger than a 500cc for commuting and saving money.

As usual, Allen, I believe you are precisely correct.

The single cylinder, small displacement, air cooled thumper is the most versatile, economical form of motorized transportation. Up to this point, the Chinese have been concentrating on producing motorcycles for their domestic market, and a good part of the Third World. The Chinese specialize in 200cc thumpers for a very good reason. If the people in poorer nations have any motorized vehicle, it is most likely a single cylinder, small displacement, air cooled motorcycle, since the bike’s mechanical simplicity, small engine, and light weight, help to keep repair, maintenance, and operating costs to an absolute minimum.

Spud

[katoranger]

I didn't really save any money riding my yamaha radian. It melted tires and the four carbs were not exactly effiecient.

The lifan was pretty cheap to ride. I could actually ride it and come out ahead. It helped that my 4 wheeled vehicle only got 16mpg too.

I am considering a scooter again and watching the craigslist for a bargain one. Gy6 variant 150cc or larger. I need to be able to maintain 50mph for my commute with alittle extra in reserve. Also so that I can extend my season a reasonable fairing/windshield. Tires for the scoots probably run alittle more than the dual sports, but I think I can eek more mpg out of a scooter than a dual sport too.

I haven't fully decided. Hoping to find someone who wants to unload a (problematic :wink: ) scooter.

[katoranger]

There is some good points here, but its taking the typical US bike as an example too.

http://motorcyclemanifesto.blogspot....oney-myth.html

I fall into the buying used gear/cheap old small bike or china bike category and riding conservatively on budget tires etc.

I only ran out gas twice. Neither time did I call a friend. I pushed.

The filling up every other day gets alittle old, but not that bad. Also when gas is $2.50 a gallon it is much harder to save money.

The dual sports/scooters/250 ninjas, rebels, etc are probably the only types that one could reasonably purchase and get good service and mileage from.

Still looking. I just did a quick calculation and I could save $73.80 a month in gas by riding a 70mpg bike/scooter over a 22mpg ford truck. That is at the current $2.69/gal here. At $4/gal it is much more.

That is $885.60 a year.

So in the US there is not alot of small displacement bikes available. Here anyone good buy a 600cc bike and ride it with no stepped license etc.

In the european countries fuel prices have been higher longer and insurance/parking constrictions make bikes more reasonable too.

A frugal rider can save money in my opinion. It helps that I paid cash for my clunkers too.