Oil Change #6

jbfla · 07-03-2016, 10:50 PM

Still a bit of sludge with iron/steel particles buried within:

Nearly lost the crush washer again:

CSC recommended 20w 50 oil to me.

This is what I had on the shelf, left over from H-D days:

Old oil will be sent for analysis. Results in a couple of weeks.

jb

madsocial · 07-07-2016, 09:19 AM

$7.50 for Vtwin oil! How the heck did you find that deal?? Seriously!

As for oil analysis, I have sent in 2 test. One at 200 and the other at just over 500. I have attached the results. I will send another one out at 2500 miles. I figured that way we see the true break in and 2nd valve check as well.

From what Blackstone says, so far so good!

jbfla · 07-07-2016, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madsocial

$7.50 for Vtwin oil! How the heck did you find that deal?? Seriously!

It was a closeout sale at Walmart. I bought all they had.

Quote:

Originally Posted by madsocial

As for oil analysis, I have sent in 2 test. One at 200 and the other at just over 500. I have attached the results. I will send another one out at 2500 miles. I figured that way we see the true break in and 2nd valve check as well.

From what Blackstone says, so far so good!

I was unable to read the small print....old eyes.

What was the % of fuel in the oil?

Did Blackstone make any comments on the report?

Thanks.

jb

madsocial · 07-07-2016, 12:08 PM

HA! sorry about that, not sure why it didn't show up big! All the pictures are usually oversized and this one wasn't. I can't read it either lol.

Here's what it says: "OIL USE INTERVAL: UNIT CLIENT COMMENTS

RANIA: This run was more than double the length of the last one, yet wear metals dropped - those are

results we like to see! Copper, showing brass/bronze wear, did increase by 2 parts per million, but that's an

element that takes a long time to wash out of an engine, so we'll look for it to go down next time. At this

point, we'd say this Zongshen looks pretty good. Fuel contamination dropped below our cautionary level,

and is now at a harmless quantity. The low viscosity is fine too. So far so good for this adventure bike. Just

keep up the good maintenance!"

The fuel was only. 1.8%

dpl096 · 07-09-2016, 09:49 AM

1.8 is excellent !

BlackBike · 07-09-2016, 07:10 PM

jbfla · 08-12-2016, 10:24 PM

Here's the oil analysis for oil change #6:

The two things I was interested in:

The aluminum in the oil has gone from 30 down to 11...

The % of fuel in the oil went up, from 3.8 to 5.5.

Blackstone says the amount of fuel in the oil greater than 2% is cause for concern.

In the CSC Blog of May 16, Joe Berk says 4% to 5% is OK.

http://californiascooterco.com/blog/?p=21425

Who should I believe?

jb

pete · 08-12-2016, 10:53 PM

analizing the oil is great but it can make you
think there are issues that really are not there..

i wouldn't be surprized if all my bikes had higher totals than
what you are seeing in yours...And the motors will still
last for 1000s of miles....
i think the real probs would start if the oil / filter changes were
not done....

...

pyoungbl · 08-13-2016, 10:52 AM

When the 'fuel in oil' first came up we beat the issue to death. I finally found an engineering paper that addressed the issue. Bottom line: 5% fuel in the engine is the point where you need to get concerned. I just switched to a 90C thermostat (70C is what came on the bike) but have not put any miles on the bike since that swap. I'm waiting for (1) cooler weather and (2) some minor body clips so I can reinstall all the plastic. In the meantime I plan to change the oil more frequently until it starts to show less than 4-5% fuel in the oil. I believe the issue is two fold: engine still breaking in and engine running too cold. My bike only has 1700 miles on it.

Peter Y.

jbfla · 08-13-2016, 11:03 AM

Thanks for your insight, Peter.

At 5,000+ miles, I think my engine is run in.

I'm interested in the results of the 90C thermostat.

My uneducated thoughts are that the oil should get hot enough to "boil off" or vaporize the gas in the oil.

jb

surfndirt · 08-21-2016, 04:28 PM

What oil change intervals have yall been doing? Every 2k after the 2nd change at 1000? If I switch to full synthetic can I extend that?

jbfla · 08-21-2016, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfndirt

What oil change intervals have yall been doing? Every 2k after the 2nd change at 1000? If I switch to full synthetic can I extend that?

I've been averaging every 1,000 miles, but that is because I'm concerned about the fuel in the oil.

I am hoping it will stabilize soon so I can go to 2,500 mile intervals, when I will also do a valve check.

I use synthetic oil.

jb

CSaddict · 08-22-2016, 07:19 PM

I rode an event this weekend with my dual sport club. They know I'm the guy with the RX3 even though I was on my XR650R. One guy made mention of the fuel in the oil.......I asked how he knew that was an issue and he said that he was interested in buying one so he looked them up on the forum. He listed that as reason to not pull the trigger. I told him for what its worth my oil never smells like gas in RX3.

pyoungbl · 08-22-2016, 10:03 PM

CS, it's odd that the fuel-in-oil only comes up in a few machines. I suspect the problem sorts itself out over time since Zong has made a bazillion of these bikes without having wholesale failures. It could be that we are aware of it because we sent oil samples in for analysis. Someone may well find a similar situation if he sent in an oil sample from brand XYZ.

The guy you talked to might just have been looking for an excuse to dislike the Zong. Show me any brand of motorcycle and I can show you a fatal flaw...if you believe the forums. In the meantime, I'll ride mine and smile.

Peter Y.

07-03-2016, 10:50 PM	#1
jbfla Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: FL, GA, NC Posts: 771	Oil Change #6 Still a bit of sludge with iron/steel particles buried within: Nearly lost the crush washer again: CSC recommended 20w 50 oil to me. This is what I had on the shelf, left over from H-D days: Old oil will be sent for analysis. Results in a couple of weeks. jb __________________ 2016 Honda CB500F......2017 Triumph Street Twin 2014 XT 250........
	3

07-07-2016, 12:08 PM	#4
madsocial Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Maryland Posts: 213	HA! sorry about that, not sure why it didn't show up big! All the pictures are usually oversized and this one wasn't. I can't read it either lol. Here's what it says: "OIL USE INTERVAL: UNIT CLIENT COMMENTS RANIA: This run was more than double the length of the last one, yet wear metals dropped - those are results we like to see! Copper, showing brass/bronze wear, did increase by 2 parts per million, but that's an element that takes a long time to wash out of an engine, so we'll look for it to go down next time. At this point, we'd say this Zongshen looks pretty good. Fuel contamination dropped below our cautionary level, and is now at a harmless quantity. The low viscosity is fine too. So far so good for this adventure bike. Just keep up the good maintenance!" The fuel was only. 1.8% __________________ Cheers! Rania aka madsocial 2016 Zongshen RX3 (CSC Cyclone) Pay it Forward!
	3

07-09-2016, 09:49 AM	#5
dpl096 Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: East Central Hellinois Posts: 1,344	1.8 is excellent ! __________________ ************************************************ * " Time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted." - John Lennon “I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” ― Thomas Jefferson "If you don't know where you're going any road will take you there" ....George Harrison song
	1

08-12-2016, 10:24 PM	#7
jbfla Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: FL, GA, NC Posts: 771	Here's the oil analysis for oil change #6: The two things I was interested in: The aluminum in the oil has gone from 30 down to 11... The % of fuel in the oil went up, from 3.8 to 5.5. Blackstone says the amount of fuel in the oil greater than 2% is cause for concern. In the CSC Blog of May 16, Joe Berk says 4% to 5% is OK. http://californiascooterco.com/blog/?p=21425 Who should I believe? jb __________________ 2016 Honda CB500F......2017 Triumph Street Twin 2014 XT 250........
	0

08-12-2016, 10:53 PM	#8
pete Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: ChCh , NZ Posts: 2,261	analizing the oil is great but it can make you think there are issues that really are not there.. i wouldn't be surprized if all my bikes had higher totals than what you are seeing in yours...And the motors will still last for 1000s of miles.... i think the real probs would start if the oil / filter changes were not done.... ... __________________ 09 XT660R ... 06 TTR250 ... 80 Montesa H6 125 Enduro... 77 Montesa Cota 348 MRR "Malcom Rathnell Replica"... Current resto projects.. 81 Honda CT110... 80 Kawasaki KL250A1... 11 Husaburg TE125 enduro... "sold" along with another 31... Lifan 125 Pitbike.. "stolen" ... KIWI BIKER FORUM...... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/content.php All the best offroad rides in NZ... http://www.remotemoto.com/ E-mail... xtpete1@gmail.com
	2

07-09-2016, 07:10 PM	#6
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	__________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~
	1

08-13-2016, 10:52 AM	#9
pyoungbl Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA Posts: 632	When the 'fuel in oil' first came up we beat the issue to death. I finally found an engineering paper that addressed the issue. Bottom line: 5% fuel in the engine is the point where you need to get concerned. I just switched to a 90C thermostat (70C is what came on the bike) but have not put any miles on the bike since that swap. I'm waiting for (1) cooler weather and (2) some minor body clips so I can reinstall all the plastic. In the meantime I plan to change the oil more frequently until it starts to show less than 4-5% fuel in the oil. I believe the issue is two fold: engine still breaking in and engine running too cold. My bike only has 1700 miles on it. Peter Y.
	2

08-13-2016, 11:03 AM	#10
jbfla Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: FL, GA, NC Posts: 771	Thanks for your insight, Peter. At 5,000+ miles, I think my engine is run in. I'm interested in the results of the 90C thermostat. My uneducated thoughts are that the oil should get hot enough to "boil off" or vaporize the gas in the oil. jb __________________ 2016 Honda CB500F......2017 Triumph Street Twin 2014 XT 250........
	0

08-21-2016, 04:28 PM	#11
surfndirt Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: SC, USA Posts: 46	What oil change intervals have yall been doing? Every 2k after the 2nd change at 1000? If I switch to full synthetic can I extend that? __________________ '16 Red RX3, K270's, 13t Front, Fog lights, Tusk Bar Risers (4K mi.) '82 Suzuki SP250 (11k Miles) '85 Honda Rebel 250 (Sold April 2016)
	0

08-22-2016, 07:19 PM	#13
CSaddict Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 200	I rode an event this weekend with my dual sport club. They know I'm the guy with the RX3 even though I was on my XR650R. One guy made mention of the fuel in the oil.......I asked how he knew that was an issue and he said that he was interested in buying one so he looked them up on the forum. He listed that as reason to not pull the trigger. I told him for what its worth my oil never smells like gas in RX3. __________________ 2016 CSC RX3 Ginger Edition Check out my blog here: https://www.facebook.com/My-CSC-Zong...0302595973417/
	0

08-22-2016, 10:03 PM	#14
pyoungbl Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA Posts: 632	CS, it's odd that the fuel-in-oil only comes up in a few machines. I suspect the problem sorts itself out over time since Zong has made a bazillion of these bikes without having wholesale failures. It could be that we are aware of it because we sent oil samples in for analysis. Someone may well find a similar situation if he sent in an oil sample from brand XYZ. The guy you talked to might just have been looking for an excuse to dislike the Zong. Show me any brand of motorcycle and I can show you a fatal flaw...if you believe the forums. In the meantime, I'll ride mine and smile. Peter Y.
	4