new guy needs some advice - Page 2

Weldangrind · 01-15-2010, 11:56 AM

Baron,

Thanks for asking clear questions. We can be as detailed as you wish in the answers. To begin:

The combustion chamber is the area above the piston where combustion takes place. This occurs when the piston is at the top of its stroke, referred to as Top Dead Center (TDC). The spark plug screws into the cylinder head to ignite the fuel / air mixture once it has been compressed by the piston. When I say "above the piston", that is a reference to a cylinder that is arranged vertically; as a point of trivia, your 90 has a horizontal arrangement.

The combustion chamber needs a rather specific ratio of air to fuel to run properly and safely. Too much fuel results in a poor running engine, generally identified by a bog condition and a black spark plug (referred to as rich). Too much air can burn up a piston, and it results in a white spark plug (referred to as lean). The ideal air / fuel ratio will produce a tan / grey plug colour. Incidentally, the theoretically ideal air / fuel ratio is 14.7:1, although it's generally richer in reality, like 12:1. We don't have an efficient way to measure the ratio, so we go by colour and feel.

The valves (in your machines) are in the cylinder head, adjacent to the spark plug. As the name implies, they open or close as necessary to allow fresh air and fuel in or allow exhaust out. I recommend that you don't go there yet.

Yes, the switch at the back of the quad is a tether for young riders. It has been problematic for some, resulting in a no-spark condition.

Please tell us how you know that the 90 has spark.

When you cleaned the carb, did you adjust the air / fuel screw and the idle screw? If so, we can guide you towards a good starting point.

Welcome to the world of Chinese bikes and quads. Buying new stuff won't necessarily make your problems go away; even a new quad could have these concerns, and you have to be comfortable enough to tackle the issues (you sure seem to be). A good sense of humour helps a lot.

FastDoc · 01-15-2010, 12:02 PM

Checking valve clearance is easy, if not a bit intimidating. It won't be eact, but look at Spud's post on checking a Zong in the DS forum. 99% of all valve checks on such machines will be the same.

Baron · 01-15-2010, 01:02 PM

I know the 90cc has spark because I took out the old spark plug (It was black btw). I tested the new one by holding it and trying to start it. There was a spark in the gap of the plug and I got a shock.

When I cleaned the carbs I did not adjust any screws.

I was pretty happy with myself for doing as much as I did yesterday, but that cumbustion/valve stuff has me a little nervous. You're right though, I'm willing to try anything. I didn't pay a lot for these so I don't have much to lose.

Whats the best way to clean the air filters? I just banged them out becuase I was concerned about using water or a flamable cleaner.

FastDoc · 01-15-2010, 01:14 PM

Read through this. Its a good tutorial. It's for a different bike, but for the nost part these are all the same.

http://chinariders.net/modules.php?n...ewtopic&t=1655

If the filters are foam, wash them in dish soap and water, or kerosine, mineral spirits, or diesel. Gasoline is a little too dangerous. I use diesel or mineral spirits, whichever is closer

. Let them dry thoroughly and reoil them with foam filter oil. I suppose you could use regular motor oil as well. If they are paper, the best you can do is blow them out with compressed air.

FastDoc · 01-15-2010, 01:15 PM

But I'm very handy around the house (carpentry, plumbing...) so I thought this would be a good learning experiance.

Correct. You can do this. Stick with us and you're good to go!

FastDoc · 01-15-2010, 02:52 PM

It's for a Q, but as I said, it's all the same:

http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/co...lve-Adjustment

TurboT · 01-15-2010, 03:46 PM

Hey Doc,

Some of these little ATV's use the K&N style metal screen type air filter, not foam or paper. Obviously the cleaning methods would be similar but K&N filter oil recommended!

Interesting articles you posted. I especially like the second one with the moving graphical parts.

Baron : I told you you'd get slammed with options.

I've never been brave enough to hang onto the spark plug and take the ride.

I always just ground it on a head bolt and looked for lightning.

Let us know how you progress. Pictures are always great too!

FastDoc · 01-15-2010, 03:53 PM

Interesting articles you posted. I especially like the second one with the moving graphical parts.

Good stuff, eh? (To use the Canadian idiom

)

'Borrowed' from mychinamoto.com.

TurboT · 01-15-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDoc

Interesting articles you posted. I especially like the second one with the moving graphical parts.

Good stuff, eh? (To use the Canadian idiom

)

Haha.. I think you Yanks use the term "eh" more to make fun of us, than we actually do using it in everyday conversation.

Baron · 01-15-2010, 06:18 PM

I didn't have much time to work on them tonight, but I did make sure gas is getting through the lines and adjusted the air/fuel screw on the carbs. Didn't seem to make a difference. I'm sure I was adjusting the right screw on the 90 but the 150 I'm not sure. I don't think the 150 is a Baja afterall. It's set up VERY different than the 90 and doesn't say Baja on the tag like the 90 does. The VIN # LZXSCKL2X58050026 any ideas what I have? The 150 barely starts then stalls, it bogs when I give it gas. The 90 turns and turns but there's never that starting sound.
I should mention that both have had some modifications made by the previous owner. the 150 seems to have new gas lines that bypass the old shut off. I'm not sure and I may be saying it wrong (see picture).
The 90 is hot wired because they lost the key. I have to hold a screw driver across the poles of the starter to try and start it. Not sure if any of that matters or not. Here are some pics. Black one is the 150, blue is the 90.[/img][img][/img]
Any other ideas before I try the valve thing?
About the valve adjustments. It says to use the kick starter. I don't have kick starters. What do I do instead?
signed,
The new pain in the a$$

Baron · 01-15-2010, 06:18 PM

Ok, I have to figure out how to post the pics. I'll try again after I get the kids in bed.

TheRealWorld · 01-15-2010, 08:05 PM

Kind of a scary deal on that wiring. You need to have a key on even to start it if you are using a screw driver. I don't have a schematic on how to hot wire the start switch. Make sure the kill switch is in the proper poistion, if you have one. I read somewhere that you have spark, is that at the spark plug?

Baron · 01-15-2010, 09:00 PM

Finally figured out the pics. here they are.

<img border = "0" src = "http://thumbp8.mail.vip.ac4.yahoo.com/tn?sid=1600203002&mid=ALjsjkQAAR2RS1EbyAyz8x6JZ88& midoffset=1_80143&partid=2&f=585&fid=Inbox"/>

<img border = "0" src = "http://thumbp8.mail.vip.ac4.yahoo.com/tn?sid=1600203002&mid=ALjsjkQAAR2RS1EbyAyz8x6JZ88& midoffset=1_80143&partid=3&f=585&fid=Inbox"/>

<img border = "0" src = "http://thumbp8.mail.vip.ac4.yahoo.com/tn?sid=1600203002&mid=ALjsjkQAAR2RS1EbyAyz8x6JZ88& midoffset=1_80143&partid=4&f=585&fid=Inbox"/>

FastDoc · 01-15-2010, 11:05 PM

Negative copy on the graphics, Baron. :(

TheRealWorld · 01-15-2010, 11:33 PM

Hey fast Doc, thanks for the heads up, I have already emailed my computer tech to complain that I could not see the pics!

01-15-2010, 11:56 AM	#16
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Baron, Thanks for asking clear questions. We can be as detailed as you wish in the answers. To begin: The combustion chamber is the area above the piston where combustion takes place. This occurs when the piston is at the top of its stroke, referred to as Top Dead Center (TDC). The spark plug screws into the cylinder head to ignite the fuel / air mixture once it has been compressed by the piston. When I say "above the piston", that is a reference to a cylinder that is arranged vertically; as a point of trivia, your 90 has a horizontal arrangement. The combustion chamber needs a rather specific ratio of air to fuel to run properly and safely. Too much fuel results in a poor running engine, generally identified by a bog condition and a black spark plug (referred to as rich). Too much air can burn up a piston, and it results in a white spark plug (referred to as lean). The ideal air / fuel ratio will produce a tan / grey plug colour. Incidentally, the theoretically ideal air / fuel ratio is 14.7:1, although it's generally richer in reality, like 12:1. We don't have an efficient way to measure the ratio, so we go by colour and feel. The valves (in your machines) are in the cylinder head, adjacent to the spark plug. As the name implies, they open or close as necessary to allow fresh air and fuel in or allow exhaust out. I recommend that you don't go there yet. Yes, the switch at the back of the quad is a tether for young riders. It has been problematic for some, resulting in a no-spark condition. Please tell us how you know that the 90 has spark. When you cleaned the carb, did you adjust the air / fuel screw and the idle screw? If so, we can guide you towards a good starting point. Welcome to the world of Chinese bikes and quads. Buying new stuff won't necessarily make your problems go away; even a new quad could have these concerns, and you have to be comfortable enough to tackle the issues (you sure seem to be). A good sense of humour helps a lot. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
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01-15-2010, 12:02 PM	#17
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	Checking valve clearance is easy, if not a bit intimidating. It won't be eact, but look at Spud's post on checking a Zong in the DS forum. 99% of all valve checks on such machines will be the same. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

01-15-2010, 01:14 PM	#19
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	Read through this. Its a good tutorial. It's for a different bike, but for the nost part these are all the same. http://chinariders.net/modules.php?n...ewtopic&t=1655 If the filters are foam, wash them in dish soap and water, or kerosine, mineral spirits, or diesel. Gasoline is a little too dangerous. I use diesel or mineral spirits, whichever is closer . Let them dry thoroughly and reoil them with foam filter oil. I suppose you could use regular motor oil as well. If they are paper, the best you can do is blow them out with compressed air. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

01-15-2010, 01:15 PM	#20
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	But I'm very handy around the house (carpentry, plumbing...) so I thought this would be a good learning experiance. Correct. You can do this. Stick with us and you're good to go! __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

01-15-2010, 02:52 PM	#21
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	Here's an AWESOME tutorial on valve adjustment It's for a Q, but as I said, it's all the same: http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/co...lve-Adjustment __________________ Happy to serve.
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01-15-2010, 01:02 PM	#18
Baron Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: FL Posts: 39	I know the 90cc has spark because I took out the old spark plug (It was black btw). I tested the new one by holding it and trying to start it. There was a spark in the gap of the plug and I got a shock. When I cleaned the carbs I did not adjust any screws. I was pretty happy with myself for doing as much as I did yesterday, but that cumbustion/valve stuff has me a little nervous. You're right though, I'm willing to try anything. I didn't pay a lot for these so I don't have much to lose. Whats the best way to clean the air filters? I just banged them out becuase I was concerned about using water or a flamable cleaner.
	0

01-15-2010, 03:46 PM	#22
TurboT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Posts: 2,185	Hey Doc, Some of these little ATV's use the K&N style metal screen type air filter, not foam or paper. Obviously the cleaning methods would be similar but K&N filter oil recommended! Interesting articles you posted. I especially like the second one with the moving graphical parts. Baron : I told you you'd get slammed with options. I've never been brave enough to hang onto the spark plug and take the ride. I always just ground it on a head bolt and looked for lightning. Let us know how you progress. Pictures are always great too!
	0

01-15-2010, 03:53 PM	#23
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	Interesting articles you posted. I especially like the second one with the moving graphical parts. Good stuff, eh? (To use the Canadian idiom ) 'Borrowed' from mychinamoto.com. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

01-15-2010, 06:18 PM	#25
Baron Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: FL Posts: 39	I didn't have much time to work on them tonight, but I did make sure gas is getting through the lines and adjusted the air/fuel screw on the carbs. Didn't seem to make a difference. I'm sure I was adjusting the right screw on the 90 but the 150 I'm not sure. I don't think the 150 is a Baja afterall. It's set up VERY different than the 90 and doesn't say Baja on the tag like the 90 does. The VIN # LZXSCKL2X58050026 any ideas what I have? The 150 barely starts then stalls, it bogs when I give it gas. The 90 turns and turns but there's never that starting sound. I should mention that both have had some modifications made by the previous owner. the 150 seems to have new gas lines that bypass the old shut off. I'm not sure and I may be saying it wrong (see picture). The 90 is hot wired because they lost the key. I have to hold a screw driver across the poles of the starter to try and start it. Not sure if any of that matters or not. Here are some pics. Black one is the 150, blue is the 90.[/img][img][/img] Any other ideas before I try the valve thing? About the valve adjustments. It says to use the kick starter. I don't have kick starters. What do I do instead? signed, The new pain in the a$$
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01-15-2010, 08:05 PM	#27
TheRealWorld Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 817	Kind of a scary deal on that wiring. You need to have a key on even to start it if you are using a screw driver. I don't have a schematic on how to hot wire the start switch. Make sure the kill switch is in the proper poistion, if you have one. I read somewhere that you have spark, is that at the spark plug?
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01-15-2010, 09:00 PM	#28
Baron Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: FL Posts: 39	Finally figured out the pics. here they are. <img border = "0" src = "http://thumbp8.mail.vip.ac4.yahoo.com/tn?sid=1600203002&mid=ALjsjkQAAR2RS1EbyAyz8x6JZ88& midoffset=1_80143&partid=2&f=585&fid=Inbox"/> <img border = "0" src = "http://thumbp8.mail.vip.ac4.yahoo.com/tn?sid=1600203002&mid=ALjsjkQAAR2RS1EbyAyz8x6JZ88& midoffset=1_80143&partid=3&f=585&fid=Inbox"/> <img border = "0" src = "http://thumbp8.mail.vip.ac4.yahoo.com/tn?sid=1600203002&mid=ALjsjkQAAR2RS1EbyAyz8x6JZ88& midoffset=1_80143&partid=4&f=585&fid=Inbox"/>
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01-15-2010, 11:05 PM	#29
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	Negative copy on the graphics, Baron. :( __________________ Happy to serve.
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01-15-2010, 11:33 PM	#30
TheRealWorld Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 817	Hey fast Doc, thanks for the heads up, I have already emailed my computer tech to complain that I could not see the pics!
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