High idle - TPS?

[ChopperCharles]

Here are the log files. https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...qh?usp=sharing

I started with a 20 minute idle, as it was a cooler day this wasn't enough to cause the issue. I put the laptop in the saddlebag but the USB plug detached almost immediately, so the ride data was lost. There are a few throttle blips in the data that were from me, not from the bike.

When I got back I saw the disconnected cable so I reconnected and saved the log of the high idle for about five minutes. Again, a couple of throttle blips.

During the ride the bike threw a code for O2 sensor voltage too high, and it was running poorly. Surging and hesitating like it was running very lean.

Charles.

[ChopperCharles]

Also, I'm 100% sure I don't have an air leak. My throttle also snaps back and is adjusted properly. Joey is sending me a spare ECU to test. The readings and troubleshooting suggest the TPS is at fault, even though I've gone through two of them. But it could be the ECU reading the TPS incorrectly. So I'm going to try that tactic next.


Charles.

[Lukas]

ok let's see you log file

[ChopperCharles]

See three posts above, where I shared the directory with my log files.

[Lukas]

I compared with other log file available in hod ecu hacker and mine, but on mine I didn't have the motorcycle warmed up like that, but on the map from ben elli there is that temperature, which is 86 degrees Celsius you can see the problem here.

[Lukas]

Here with ben elli TRK at 86c and your 86c I am not sure if it is not the engine temp sensor that is the issue, it has a puncture I need to think about it a bit and look for info.

[Lukas]

are you change this sensor?

[Lukas]

i know you write this but i want be sure

[Working_ZS]

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

Also, I'm 100% sure I don't have an air leak. My throttle also snaps back and is adjusted properly. Joey is sending me a spare ECU to test. The readings and troubleshooting suggest the TPS is at fault, even though I've gone through two of them. But it could be the ECU reading the TPS incorrectly. So I'm going to try that tactic next.


Charles.

Actually, looking at your log files and comparing the two, I would suspect that you have a duff O2 sensor that is not switching fast enough; the output from yours looks a little "lazy". In your fast idle log file, the Long Term Fuel Trim is -20% at .8 after the bike warms up and enters closed loop operation, indicating that the fast idle is due to lean operation as you suspect. This is being commanded by the ECU because it thinks that you are running too rich based off of the O2 sensor input. I can't recall if you bought your O2 sensor from CSC or used a reputed cross reference part number, but if it is a cross reference O2 sensor, then you may want to try genuine replacement from CSC. I know that the cross referenced part numbers are supposed to work, but I don't recall anyone actually installing one and verifying that they do, so that may be part of the problem.

[Working_ZS]

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

Also, I'm 100% sure I don't have an air leak. My throttle also snaps back and is adjusted properly. Joey is sending me a spare ECU to test. The readings and troubleshooting suggest the TPS is at fault, even though I've gone through two of them. But it could be the ECU reading the TPS incorrectly. So I'm going to try that tactic next.


Charles.

Actually, looking at your log files and comparing the two, I would suspect that you have a duff O2 sensor that is not switching fast enough; the output from yours looks a little "lazy". In your fast idle log file, the Long Term Fuel Trim is -20% at .8 after the bike warms up and enters closed loop operation, indicating that the fast idle is due to lean operation as you suspect. This is being commanded by the ECU because it thinks that you are running too rich based off of the O2 sensor input. I can't recall if you bought your O2 sensor from CSC or used a reputed cross reference part number, but if it is a cross reference O2 sensor, then you may want to try genuine replacement from CSC. I know that the cross referenced part numbers are supposed to work, but I don't recall anyone actually installing one and verifying that they do, so that may be part of the problem.

[Lukas]

his probe works the same as mine and my bike rides normally, you can see on the log that the voltage jump are identical

[Lukas]

From what I've been able to find out is that the column I've highlighted shows the number of correct passes charlie wrote that he drives a bit so that's a good indication I think if I drive mine a bit and plug it in without putting it out then that meter will also be full, so that's a bad clue I didn't know that this sensor was measuring temperature at the same time but I think charlie replaced it and unfortunately I don't see anything strange but it got me curious.

[Lukas]

I wonder if it adapts itself?

[Working_ZS]

Originally Posted by Lukas

his probe works the same as mine and my bike rides normally, you can see on the log that the voltage jump are identical

No, if you look closely at the two logs, under the high idle log there are significant chunks of time where the O2 sensor is "stuck", outputting high voltage to the ECU, while under the normal idle log graph the plot almost looks solid, since the O2 is rapidly switching back and forth like it is supposed to. I think he has a thermal issue with his O2 sensor, it loses the ability to react fast enough once it gets hot - hence the high voltage O2 sensor trouble code that he is getting; a high voltage would tell the ECU that the engine is running rich, which then causes it to lean out the air/fuel mixture. One other possibility is a bad electrical connection somewhere in the O2 sensor circuit, possibly a bad terminal in the connector, or one that has backed out and is not making full contact due to thermal expansion after it gets hot. I would definitely inspect the connector and its terminals for problems first, then swap the O2 sensor if they check out.

A good test would be to back probe the O2 sensor connector from the O2 sensor side and measure the resistance of the wiring from there to the ECU connector, both cold and hot, to see if there are any resistance differences when the wiring connector temperature changes.

Note: I could be seeing a compression effect in the O2 sensor voltages, since the two log files are of different durations, with one being 5 minutes and the other 27 minutes. It would help to see two equal length logs, to be sure that I'm seeing a "real" difference and not a logging artifact.

[Lukas]

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

I replaced the TPS, and it seemed to get better. I was riding the bike conservatively and the ECU corrected for the new TPS. Idle was rock solid stable, no codes, and the bike no longer hesitated or stuttered.

so then I took it on the highway and let it get good and hot, and the problem came right back.

I replaced the MAP sensor, because it was easy to get to. No effect. So that leaves the IAC valve. That's the last thing I haven't replaced.

Of course, now I'm feeling highly frustrated and severely pessimistic, and I'm doubting that the IAC valve will fix the problem. Which means ordering a new throttle body assembly and throwing even more money down the tubes.

I'm not pleased at all.

It's extra frustrating because I keep missing going on trips on the RX3. I *LOVE* riding the RX3. I love the size and the off-road capability and the light weight. But this will be the THIRD trip this year that I've missed due to the bike breaking right before the planned trip. This will be the third time I ride my absolutely trouble-free Benelli Leoncino instead.

Charles.

This description shows that it was ok then until it warmed up and now it was also ok until it warmed up I also looked at this log file from 20 min and the throttle position and it is 0.2% and on this 5 min log file it is 1.5% too bad the cable came unplugged because it would be known if this position changes as the temperature increases and now the question is if it is the short circuit and temperature that causes it to increase or if there is a leak somewhere and as the metal expands more left air gets in.