2022 1/2 Templar X

[Texas Pete]

I put the oem jets back in the carburetor when I reinstalled mine so I could experience first hand what the jetting is like out of the box since no two carbs on identical bikes will be exactly the same.

I made the first run video faster changing out the shipping oil for Rotella T4 so you can hear what the default carburetor is like.



I then spent a good seven to ten minutes going through 5k rpm on the digital dash and below varying up and down. Tossed in a few fistful of full throttles. And here’s what the running conditions were. Temperature: 3.8C / 39F, Elevation: 182m / 597feet. On some acceleration runs bogging. One full fist of throttle single bog and quit. On some deaccelerations popping. I found the idle screw and adjusted idle RPM. I didn’t find the pilot screw yet or know if this carb puts it on the air intake side or on the fuel side but I will need to find that next.

[Texas Pete]

Thats definitely a better deal with a full set of current parts to use as spares when doing any engine rebuilding or repair.

[Thumper]

I like the ZS172FMM-3A (5-speed) for it's simplicity, and for a dedicated offroad bike, it's adequate. But the 6-speed version with counterbalancing is also available for about the same cost. Amazon has at least one source for the 5-speed, and ebay has a few sources including the 6-speed.

I can hear the counterbalancer linkage in the 6-speed (not loud, but audible). I am sure it is normal. That extra gear is useful, and the counterbalancing is nice for road use, but the 5speed might be a better choice for an offroad build. The choice is not that easy for me

As you can tell by the triangular right case shape, and the absence of a kick starter, this is the 6speed. It even comes with a gear shift and a starter. The real benefit of paying the additional ~$450 (more than the cost of a head) is that you can do a complete bench build and swap it in when you are ready. And the head in the complete engine includes the cam/rockers/camchain sprocket/camchain...

[Hap]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I like the ZS172FMM-3A (5-speed) for it's simplicity, and for a dedicated offroad bike, it's adequate. But the 6-speed version with counterbalancing is also available for about the same cost. Amazon has at least one source for the 5-speed, and ebay has a few sources including the 6-speed.

I can hear the counterbalancer linkage in the 6-speed whining (not loud, but audible). I am sure it is normal. That extra gear is useful, and the counterbalancing is nice for road use, but the 5speed might be a better choice for an offroad build. The choice is not that easy for me

As you can tell by the triangular right case shape, and the absence of a kick starter, this is the 6speed. It even comes with a gear shift and a starter. The real benefit of paying the additional ~$450 (more than the cost of a head) is that you can do a complete bench build and swap it in when you are ready. And the head in the complete engine includes the cam/rockers/camchain sprocket/camchain...

Attachment 27891
Attachment 27892

I definitely see your point Thumper. And that’s just a darn good deal on both those engines! I really don’t see how they can make, market and sell those engines that cheap. Hell a comparable Honda engine would be 4 times that amount.

[Thumper]

AJ1 (https://aj1moto.com/) has a variety of engines, including the twin cam ZS NC300 liquid cooled engines (280cc) shown here. They do have the ZS174FMM-3A (OEM 5-speed on the original Temp X and now on the Temp M). It is a great engine for off road, no counterbalancer, but easy to work on/mod.

This NC300 won't fit and you'd obviously have to add a radiator!! But at the moment, a TempX frame conversion would be one way to own a Zuumav NC300!

The K8 motorcycle is offered on the AJ1 website for $3900. It seems like you can equip it with the NC300 engine!

Originally Posted by Thumper

I like the ZS172FMM-3A (5-speed) for it's simplicity, and for a dedicated offroad bike, it's adequate. But the 6-speed version with counterbalancing is also available for about the same cost. Amazon has at least one source for the 5-speed, and ebay has a few sources including the 6-speed.

I can hear the counterbalancer linkage in the 6-speed whining (not loud, but audible). I am sure it is normal. That extra gear is useful, and the counterbalancing is nice for road use, but the 5speed might be a better choice for an offroad build. The choice is not that easy for me

As you can tell by the triangular right case shape, and the absence of a kick starter, this is the 6speed. It even comes with a gear shift and a starter. The real benefit of paying the additional ~$450 (more than the cost of a head) is that you can do a complete bench build and swap it in when you are ready. And the head in the complete engine includes the cam/rockers/camchain sprocket/camchain...

Attachment 27891
Attachment 27892

[Hap]

I’ve been kicking around the idea of adding dual oil coolers where a radiator would bolt up to the Templar frame. I would have to lose the louvres. Do you think the addition of dual oil coolers would cool the engine better? Even with the loss of air flow from the louvers? Looks like the shrouds themselves catch a lot of air.

[Thumper]

An oil cooler mounted on one side, or twin oil coolers mounted there would definitely cool the engine, not cause any overheating problems.

[Thumper]

I pulled the rear shock to drill new lower mounting holes to lower the bike. While I have it off, I made some measurements.


The top and bottom mounts are BOTH secured with bolts that have 10mm center sections. The upper bushing is 22mm wide. It mounts just under, and in front of the battery cradle, behind the fuel tank. Both upper and lower bolts have M10-1.25 threads and locking nuts.



The distance between the upper and lower mounting positions is ~460mm (sorry about the poor photo, but the measurement is ~460mm).



The spring shows 350 pounds per inch rating.




I am waiting for a pair of 10mm high speed metal drill bits to make the new lower mounting position. I'll post photos after I drill them.

[Hap]

I need to lower my grandson’s Xpro Sail 150. It came with a 290mm shock. Couldn’t I just install a shorter shock? My question though. What length shock should I get to lower the bike about 3”?

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Hap

I need to lower my grandson’s Xpro Sail 150. It came with a 290mm shock. Couldn’t I just install a shorter shock? My question though. What length shock should I get to lower the bike about 3”?

I looked at the photos of the Sail 150 at PSM. The lower shock mount seems to be a single grommeted mounting ring, so it doesn't have the long fork to drill new holes for a shorter mounting position.

But the good news is that it is a simple fixed mounting position, so a shorter shock should work.

Check out this 10.25" shock from Amazon ($30). If the mounting posts have compatible sized holes, it should work perfectly. You can dial up to 4 stiffer spring preload settings as well. 30mm shorter



google this description to find it on Amazon

RUTU 10.25" 260mm Rear Shock, Mono Shock, Universal Pit Bike Shock Replacement for SDG SSR Pitster Lifan 110cc 125cc 140cc 200cc 250cc Pit Dirt Bike 400LBS - Black

How much will this lower the bike? Well, ask a mathematician. I am sure it is a Trigonometry problem since the swingarm makes a circle when it pivots.

*If you disconnect the shock and do manual measurements with the bike on a bike stand, you can estimate the effect of a 30mm change.

[Hap]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I looked at the photos of the Sail 150 at PSM. The lower shock mount seems to be a single grommeted mounting ring, so it doesn't have the long fork to drill new holes for a shorter mounting position.

But the good news is that it is a simple fixed mounting position, so a shorter shock should work.

Check out this 10.25" shock from Amazon ($30). If the mounting posts have compatible sized holes, it should work perfectly. You can dial up to 4 stiffer spring preload settings as well. 30mm shorter

Attachment 28306

google this description to find it on Amazon

RUTU 10.25" 260mm Rear Shock, Mono Shock, Universal Pit Bike Shock Replacement for SDG SSR Pitster Lifan 110cc 125cc 140cc 200cc 250cc Pit Dirt Bike 400LBS - Black

How much will this lower the bike? Well, ask a mathematician. I am sure it is a Trigonometry problem since the swingarm makes a circle when it pivots.

*If you disconnect the shock and do manual measurements with the bike on a bike stand, you can estimate the effect of a 30mm change.

Hey Thumper! I ended up getting a 270mm. And it worked perfectly. I haven’t measured it. But I would say it lowered the bike about 2-3 inches. It’s just right for my grandson now. I dropped the forks an inch also. He’s been ripping all over my place since. Thanks man!

[Thumper]

The position of the new mounting holes will determine the amount of lowering. But I am having a difficult time deciding exactly what the calculation is:
The lower mount is only about 3.5 inches behind the swingarm pivot. The distance to the rear axel from pivot is ~22".

But it isn't a simple fixed mounting position to the shock. The mount articulates slightly due to the triangular mounting bracket with dogbone linkage. The lowering will be enhanced by the effect of that linkage (either more, or less than a simple fixed mounting position.

Most lowering kits involve replacing the doglegs with slightly longer doglegs, which articulate the triangle downward/backward, effectively lengthening the distance between the lower and upper mounting positions.

Well, we will see. I think a full 1" difference in lower mounting position might be a drastic change, so I will go less than 1". But I want the lower shock mount to be secure and strong, so I don't want the new holes too close to the OEM holes. 3/4" might be about as close as I can make the new holes.

[Thumper]

It worked. It is an aluminum shock body, so it was EASY to drill. Make sure you drill straight. 10mm is perfect, works great.







I made the new holes 1" from the OEM mounting so dropped from 460mm to 435mm effective shock length. Me and my son estimated 4.8" for a full inch if it is linear. But we weren't sure if the linkage would make it less. Well, this bike will be EASY to throw a leg over now!
The kickstand is a bit long now but works on level ground! I'd like to TIGHTEN the preload now. It may need it.

My guess is it is about a ~3" drop. It's good!

And it really worked as planned If you want to do this, but just want a 2.5 inch drop, aim for a ~3/4" distance to the new holes, or maybe just under 3/4".

The chain got tighter, so I moved the rear axel forward a bit. I have more work to do before I put it all back together. I am working on the carb and some wiring rerouting. I think I need to tighten the rear shock preload if I want to keep this height. It will be easy enough to park it with the kickstand in a hole or downhill until I tighten up the rear shock preload. That might make it work better.


FYI, I did this on this 2022 1/2 6speed Temp X, which is also geared up with 39T rear sprocket from the OEM 49T sprocket. It still has the OEM 13T front sprocket. But I think I'll get a 42T or 44T rear sprocket. I just don't drive that fast, stick to two lanes anyway.

This might be a good setup for a supermotard conversion too

[Thumper]

KKE has this shock for $159 plus shipping if you would like to pick up a spare and give this a try. It is in stock (Los Angeles area). PSM does NOT have it in stock, but they would probably charge the same.
www.kkeracing.com
sales03@kkeracing.com

It is MA40B03
but give them the following info to be certain:
-460mm distance from top to bottom mounting positions (center to center of mounting holes)
-10mm bolts top and bottom (mounting holes)
-22mm wide upper mount bushing
-350lbs/inch spring
-rebound adjustment is at the base of the cylinder on the lower mount
-compression adjustment is on the top of the ballonet

You can take the photos in this thread if they want them (he asked me for pics).

If you have the Templar M, check these measurements against your shock. PSM sez it they are not interchangeable, but they may not really know. You need room for the ballonet which is angled slightly back when mounted.

[Thumper]

The length seems right. If the shock was still in one piece (spring in place) and that ~18.25 inches is from center to center (mounting holes), that is 463mm.
Questions:
-Are those 10mm bolt holes?
-What is the width of the upper bushing (22mm on the KKE adjustable shock) ?
By width, I mean the length of the bushing, width when mounted. That is the critical measurement.
-What is the width between the two legs of the lower mounting fork? It is 20mm on the KKE shock (to fit when mounted to the linkage triangle).

The spring isn't too wide, no problem there. The upper mount doesn't move significantly and sufficient clearance to mount.

If those dimensions are OK. the ONLY real issue is whether there is room for the ballonet. It is not perpendicular to the upper shock mount, but rather, angles back slightly.

I am ordering a new one, so I can send you this one. But I wouldn't recommend buying it from me, because even if it fits, you should make it a ~5/8" distance to the new mounting hole, not 1 inch. And it isn't worth sending just for fitment test.