HEAD GASKET CATASTROpHI

Zapkin · 10-13-2023, 09:03 PM

Okay, so today I wanted to tackle the situation with my head gasket. I went and took the gas tank off. I removed everything from the valve cover. I made sure the bike was at top dead center. When I attempted to remove the head after taking off the rocker arm assembly, all of the head bolts were literally loose to the point where I could back them out with my fingers. However, when I tried to loosen the external bolt on the outside, it was so tight that it broke. Now I have the bolt stuck in my head. I don't know what to do. They said this bike was refurbished, but what did they do? Tear the engine apart, loosen up all the bolts, and then over-tighten one? I don't get it. I'm not trying to be a jerk. This bike has been good to me, but I feel like there is something messed up when all the head bolts are finger loose. I don't know. I'll pay what it takes to fix it, but I'm not happy about this. You know, I love my bike, but this is not cool.

Also the exhaust bolts were laughingly loose.

EDIT: it now occurs to me that I broke that bolt because my dumb azz turned it the wrong way. I feel like the worlds stupidest person..lefty loosy righty tighty. my gosh! however, the inside nuts..thats a different story.

Bill Hilly · 10-13-2023, 09:26 PM

I don't know what bolt broke. If you could take a picture it would help. Is it one that holds the jug to the block?. Do you have the broken bolt stuck in the block,or stuck in the jug ?.

Boatguy · 10-13-2023, 09:29 PM

Definitely take us a picture. So we can help.

You know when I did my valves I was pretty surprised that my spark plug was less than finger tight. It was freely spinning in the threads.

I guess it’s important to go over these things a little bit.

Zapkin · 10-13-2023, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Hilly

I don't know what bolt broke. If you could take a picture it would help. Is it one that holds the jug to the block?. Do you have the broken bolt stuck in the block,or stuck in the jug ?.

its the one that is on the outside..left side of engine. all the other ones were so loose I could turn them out by hand but it was so tight it broke. I dunno man, I cannot imagine how that engine did as good as it did until now with loose internal stuff and the exhaust was laughably loose. I know I should have been on top, but I called myself putting locktite where it was recommended, NOT INSIDE THE FREAKIN ENGINE!

Zapkin · 10-13-2023, 09:38 PM

Like I said, it was golden until now..the 5000 unit threshhold. But still, how could all the internal bolts have been so loose??the ones for the head. and the outside one so tight? oh well, i guess now the 300 wheel problem has become a 600 dollar bike problem. lesson learned.

Zapkin · 10-13-2023, 09:40 PM

im totally screwed, back to begging family and friends for rides. this bites!!!!

Bill Hilly · 10-13-2023, 09:41 PM

I didn't read it right the first time. I think you mean the one that goes through that cam follower assembly. I feel for you, but it's fixable. Have you pulled the head completely off ? You may have a little left to get a good pair of vice grips on , or a small pipe wrench, but either way it's fixable. Even if you have to get a jug.

krat · 10-13-2023, 10:07 PM

Zapkin your life is not over. And if you are in Wheeling WV your riding season is about over anyway. Plenty of time to do the fix.

Soak it down with penetrating oil for a couple of days and get an easy-out at Harbor Freight and back it out. (While you are at HF check the price on torque wrenches, you are going to need one)

If that fails then drill out the bolt and tap the hole for a larger thread.

If that fails then order the new jug Bill Hilly was talking about.

At the absolute max you have a $50 fix, less than $10 if you get lucky.

You may even discover that your head gasket is fine and it is leaking because the bolts were loose and just need torquing down.

Bill Hilly · 10-13-2023, 10:11 PM

Wait for someone more knowledgeable to chime in, BUT, if it is the one that runs through the cam follower assembly, then if the bolt is twisted off up towards the head, then I think you could get by with it like it is, for now. The 4 hollow bolts, or whatever they are is what seals your compression. Unless there is something I'm missing, I would probably just ignore the broken bolt for now, if it's broken off high, and definitely stuck. But someone who know more will eventually chime in, and there is a good chance that I am missing something.

Zapkin · 10-13-2023, 10:21 PM

this is the four that were so loose..

thank goodness parts are cheap. I mean. seriously that is what is so beautiful about these bikes. all things considered they are still worth it, but how could these not have been tight?

Zapkin · 10-13-2023, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Hilly

Wait for someone more knowledgeable to chime in, BUT, if it is the one that runs through the cam follower assembly, then if the bolt is twisted off up towards the head, then I think you could get by with it like it is, for now. The 4 hollow bolts, or whatever they are is what seals your compression. Unless there is something I'm missing, I would probably just ignore the broken bolt for now, if it's broken off high, and definitely stuck. But someone who know more will eventually chime in, and there is a good chance that I am missing something.

nah makes all kinds of noise like that, turned if off immediately. everyting else looks beautiful the cylinder looks polished, everyting looks freakin mint. BUT WHY NOT TIGHTEN THE HEAD BOLTS. i aint trying to kill the hawk, she is just grounded.

XLsior · 10-13-2023, 10:23 PM

If it is the push rod cam follower shaft holding bolt that has sheared in an attempt to undo when it was only done up to 21ft pounds then something is off...

It however is not really part of the combustion chamber compression chamber.

I need photos to confirm what actually happened.

How the bike ran on lose head bolts is another mystery...

the bike could probably still run with a new head gasket and some slaz(sealer) smeared around the push rod oil return passage circumference.

the cam holding bolt/pin is not super critical to operation...But it might explain why the was the leaky issue in the first place if the bolt had stretched.

XLsior · 10-13-2023, 10:26 PM

Are you adjusting the torque wrench in ft pounds or Newton Meters?

Zapkin · 10-13-2023, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krat

Zapkin your life is not over. And if you are in Wheeling WV your riding season is about over anyway. Plenty of time to do the fix.

Soak it down with penetrating oil for a couple of days and get an easy-out at Harbor Freight and back it out. (While you are at HF check the price on torque wrenches, you are going to need one)

If that fails then drill out the bolt and tap the hole for a larger thread.

If that fails then order the new jug Bill Hilly was talking about.

At the absolute max you have a $50 fix, less than $10 if you get lucky.

You may even discover that your head gasket is fine and it is leaking because the bolts were loose and just need torquing down.

I am so glad someone appreciates how deeply this affects me. LOL seriously!

Zapkin · 10-13-2023, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Hilly

I didn't read it right the first time. I think you mean the one that goes through that cam follower assembly. I feel for you, but it's fixable. Have you pulled the head completely off ? You may have a little left to get a good pair of vice grips on , or a small pipe wrench, but either way it's fixable. Even if you have to get a jug.

so sad bro..its lost down in that thingamajig

10-13-2023, 09:03 PM	#1
Zapkin Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Ohio Valley Posts: 686	HEAD GASKET CATASTROpHI Okay, so today I wanted to tackle the situation with my head gasket. I went and took the gas tank off. I removed everything from the valve cover. I made sure the bike was at top dead center. When I attempted to remove the head after taking off the rocker arm assembly, all of the head bolts were literally loose to the point where I could back them out with my fingers. However, when I tried to loosen the external bolt on the outside, it was so tight that it broke. Now I have the bolt stuck in my head. I don't know what to do. They said this bike was refurbished, but what did they do? Tear the engine apart, loosen up all the bolts, and then over-tighten one? I don't get it. I'm not trying to be a jerk. This bike has been good to me, but I feel like there is something messed up when all the head bolts are finger loose. I don't know. I'll pay what it takes to fix it, but I'm not happy about this. You know, I love my bike, but this is not cool. Also the exhaust bolts were laughingly loose. EDIT: it now occurs to me that I broke that bolt because my dumb azz turned it the wrong way. I feel like the worlds stupidest person..lefty loosy righty tighty. my gosh! however, the inside nuts..thats a different story. __________________ 2022 Hawk 250 Last edited by Zapkin; 10-14-2023 at 06:59 AM.
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10-13-2023, 09:29 PM	#3
Boatguy Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Northeast Posts: 929	Definitely take us a picture. So we can help. You know when I did my valves I was pretty surprised that my spark plug was less than finger tight. It was freely spinning in the threads. I guess it’s important to go over these things a little bit. __________________ 2020 Lifan x-pect
	0

10-13-2023, 09:38 PM	#5
Zapkin Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Ohio Valley Posts: 686	Like I said, it was golden until now..the 5000 unit threshhold. But still, how could all the internal bolts have been so loose??the ones for the head. and the outside one so tight? oh well, i guess now the 300 wheel problem has become a 600 dollar bike problem. lesson learned. __________________ 2022 Hawk 250
	0

10-13-2023, 09:40 PM	#6
Zapkin Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Ohio Valley Posts: 686	im totally screwed, back to begging family and friends for rides. this bites!!!! __________________ 2022 Hawk 250
	0

10-13-2023, 10:07 PM	#8
krat Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: KY Posts: 257	Zapkin your life is not over. And if you are in Wheeling WV your riding season is about over anyway. Plenty of time to do the fix. Soak it down with penetrating oil for a couple of days and get an easy-out at Harbor Freight and back it out. (While you are at HF check the price on torque wrenches, you are going to need one) If that fails then drill out the bolt and tap the hole for a larger thread. If that fails then order the new jug Bill Hilly was talking about. At the absolute max you have a $50 fix, less than $10 if you get lucky. You may even discover that your head gasket is fine and it is leaking because the bolts were loose and just need torquing down. __________________ %90 of the Chinese motorbikes ever made are still on the road. The other %10 made it back home.
	1

10-13-2023, 09:26 PM	#2
Bill Hilly Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 931	I don't know what bolt broke. If you could take a picture it would help. Is it one that holds the jug to the block?. Do you have the broken bolt stuck in the block,or stuck in the jug ?.
	0

10-13-2023, 09:41 PM	#7
Bill Hilly Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 931	I didn't read it right the first time. I think you mean the one that goes through that cam follower assembly. I feel for you, but it's fixable. Have you pulled the head completely off ? You may have a little left to get a good pair of vice grips on , or a small pipe wrench, but either way it's fixable. Even if you have to get a jug.
	0

10-13-2023, 10:11 PM	#9
Bill Hilly Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 931	Wait for someone more knowledgeable to chime in, BUT, if it is the one that runs through the cam follower assembly, then if the bolt is twisted off up towards the head, then I think you could get by with it like it is, for now. The 4 hollow bolts, or whatever they are is what seals your compression. Unless there is something I'm missing, I would probably just ignore the broken bolt for now, if it's broken off high, and definitely stuck. But someone who know more will eventually chime in, and there is a good chance that I am missing something.
	0

10-13-2023, 10:21 PM	#10
Zapkin Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Ohio Valley Posts: 686	this is the four that were so loose.. thank goodness parts are cheap. I mean. seriously that is what is so beautiful about these bikes. all things considered they are still worth it, but how could these not have been tight? Attached Thumbnails __________________ 2022 Hawk 250
	0

10-13-2023, 10:23 PM	#12
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,282	If it is the push rod cam follower shaft holding bolt that has sheared in an attempt to undo when it was only done up to 21ft pounds then something is off... It however is not really part of the combustion chamber compression chamber. I need photos to confirm what actually happened. How the bike ran on lose head bolts is another mystery... the bike could probably still run with a new head gasket and some slaz(sealer) smeared around the push rod oil return passage circumference. the cam holding bolt/pin is not super critical to operation...But it might explain why the was the leaky issue in the first place if the bolt had stretched.
	0

10-13-2023, 10:26 PM	#13
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,282	Are you adjusting the torque wrench in ft pounds or Newton Meters?
	0