Factory muffler on the TT250 is illegal. -?-

['16 TT250]

Federal law states that the motorcycle frame must display a label stating it meets noise and emissions laws, that label also has to state that modifying the exhaust to exceed noise limits is illegal. I believe Ca. bikes must also be labeled with CARB approval info. The muffler itself must also be labeled, generally stamped into the metal, with similar info on it. Off-road mufflers must also be labeled with spark arrestor approval info to be legal for off-road use. Neither the bike or muffler have these labels. While law enforcement is unlikely to inspect a quiet muffler, if they do it's a ticket to the rider for using a non-approved muffler. It could possibly even escalate to impoundment since the motorcycle has no approval tag and it will appear to have been removed which I think is illegal.

I noticed that the muffler wasn't stamped right away and assumed that maybe it was exempt. I hadn't thought about the frame label 'till I started reading up. Reading what I can find on-line I can't find any exemptions for the labels other than on export only and competition only bikes that can never be registered for public use on or off road.

I'll be calling CSC later, but wanted to toss this out there for others to chime in if I'm missing something that does actually make it legal for the bike and muffler to not be tagged.

EDIT: please refrain from calling CSC, we don't need to flood them with calls over the same thing, I'll report back later. If my finding doesn't satisfy you then by all means ring them up.

[2LZ]

I have not one single stock muffler that has any stamping in it regarding CARB or USFS spark arrestor information, that I've seen. I can look again tonight. Only my after-market units have that information, if I recall correctly.
Any time I've been out to an OHV park, the Rangers don't look for stamping or labeling, they stick a coat hanger up the pipe looking for it to stop.

[TXDSRIDER]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

I have not one single stock muffler that has any stamping in it regarding CARB or USFS spark arrestor information, that I've seen. I can look again tonight. Only my after-market units have that information, if I recall correctly.
Any time I've been out to an OHV park, the Rangers don't look for stamping or labeling, they stick a coat hanger up the pipe looking for it to stop.

Same here I have never had a stamp on the exhaust of any motorcyle or atv I have owned.

[BlackBike]

Everyone from the manufacturer s, the people who write these endless laws rules and regulations, and the enforcement personal can't keep up with the latest edicts and procedures.

Middle fingers up,... Salute!

[RedSpruce]

In my experience, it is only motos that are not street legal that have to have the USFS stamp of approval. If it has a license plate on it it doesn't have to have the stamp.

Look at it this way, if everything had to have a USFS stamp then your Jeep Wrangler or any other road legal vehicle would have to have one, and they don't.

Of course it is always up to the interpretation of the USFS LEO that you may have to deal with.

Below is the link to the official USFS Spark Arrester Guide.
http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/programs/fi...ets/2012_GP.pd

['16 TT250]

Originally Posted by RedSpruce

In my experience, it is only motos that are not street legal that have to have the USFS stamp of approval. If it has a license plate on it it doesn't have to have the stamp.

Look at it this way, if everything had to have a USFS stamp then your Jeep Wrangler or any other road legal vehicle would have to have one, and they don't.

Of course it is always up to the interpretation of the USFS LEO that you may have to deal with.

Good point I'd forgotten. It's actually in the written law that all street legal mufflers are legal for use off-road. Street legal does require the identifying label as far as bikes are concerned so it's still a sketchy position to be in having an unstamped muffler. Guess I'll just go find a cop and see what he says about it.

['16 TT250]

These labeling laws have been around since the 70's or 80's, not very new. Roadside enforcement targeting them was apparently stepped up in 2011 from what I've read, but still only being executed here & there. Today I checked a few more bikes and two quads, I still haven't found a frame nor OE exhaust that's not labeled whether Japanese, Italian, German, or American. Some of the labels are hard to find, Harley muffler stamps for one, but they've all been labeled except the TT.

I know that the forestry approval stamping does get looked at off-road, I've watched officers check for them.

[moparrob]

Originally Posted by BlackBike

Everyone from the manufacturer s, the people who write these endless laws rules and regulations, and the enforcement personal can't keep up with the latest edicts and procedures.

Middle fingers up,... Salute!

Bravo, I completely agree. A little civil disobedience in your life will help you re-discover what actually made America great in the first place. Just imagine yourself under the tyranny of England for failing to properly label an item or pay an onerous tax they decided to impose.

Live a little and take a walk on the wild side. I promise you that when you are on your deathbed and about to die you will not regret having owned an 'outlaw' bike that failed to have a properly displayed compliance statement on it.

Embrace the opportunity to make memories that you can tell your children and grandchildren. Tell them about the time "The Man" tried to check your vehicle for compliance but instead you and your buddy hopped on your TT250s and left them in the dust as you retreated to your safe haven and laughed about the episode for hours.

Stop trying to conform to the ever burgeoning series of (generally useless) laws designed to command obedience from the flocks of sheep that we have collectively become as Americans. Dare to be different and never regret your decisions.

Stay thirsty my friends and Carpe Diem.

[Azhule]

Originally Posted by moparrob

Stay thirsty my friends and Carpe Diem.

"I don't always ride a China Bike, but when I do... I ride it illegally"

[SeerAtlas]

Originally Posted by moparrob

Bravo, I completely agree. A little civil disobedience in your life will help you re-discover what actually made America great in the first place. Just imagine yourself under the tyranny of England for failing to properly label an item or pay an onerous tax they decided to impose.

Live a little and take a walk on the wild side. I promise you that when you are on your deathbed and about to die you will not regret having owned an 'outlaw' bike that failed to have a properly displayed compliance statement on it.

Embrace the opportunity to make memories that you can tell your children and grandchildren. Tell them about the time "The Man" tried to check your vehicle for compliance but instead you and your buddy hopped on your TT250s and left them in the dust as you retreated to your safe haven and laughed about the episode for hours.

Stop trying to conform to the ever burgeoning series of (generally useless) laws designed to command obedience from the flocks of sheep that we have collectively become as Americans. Dare to be different and never regret your decisions.

Stay thirsty my friends and Carpe Diem.

as a former law enforcement type officer in several guises, let me counsel, especially in this day and age, running from an armed leo can be a really baaaad idea, i don't care how ' Fast' or skilled you are, or *think* you are. ESPECIALLY, WHEN YOUR FACE IS MOST LIKELY TO BE CONCEALED IN A FULL FACE HELMET!!! Just a 'what if'- suppose you are bombing around in a wooded or other secluded area where drug activity is suspected (you'd be surprised how much gets transported thru the woods by armed smugglers/mules). now just suppose the leo you encounter has been aware of this. remember, the first thing leos look to in making that critical first assessment of whether you are a physical threat, is to assess your facial expression and eyes- fully concealed by your helmet, number 2, your actions- flight?-if you decide to come at them in an effort to bypass them in your escape, well, u decide for yourself. worth the risk? not to me. YMMV

['16 TT250]

Originally Posted by moparrob

Bravo, I completely agree. A little civil disobedience in your life will help you re-discover what actually made America great in the first place. Just imagine yourself under the tyranny of England for failing to properly label an item or pay an onerous tax they decided to impose.

Live a little and take a walk on the wild side. I promise you that when you are on your deathbed and about to die you will not regret having owned an 'outlaw' bike that failed to have a properly displayed compliance statement on it.

Embrace the opportunity to make memories that you can tell your children and grandchildren. Tell them about the time "The Man" tried to check your vehicle for compliance but instead you and your buddy hopped on your TT250s and left them in the dust as you retreated to your safe haven and laughed about the episode for hours.

Stop trying to conform to the ever burgeoning series of (generally useless) laws designed to command obedience from the flocks of sheep that we have collectively become as Americans. Dare to be different and never regret your decisions.

Stay thirsty my friends and Carpe Diem.

I don't conform to every law, far from it. To me any law I break that leaves no victim does not make me a criminal, even if it does in the eyes of the law. Example: If I carry a firearm in my pocket without also possessing a CCW it's illegal but brings no harm to anyone therefore I don't think it's a law that needs to be followed. Using it to shoot an innocent victim is a completely different story and if I did that I should be hanged.

When the manufacturer of a product sells me a product I expect that product to meet the expectations that were presented. In this case the expectation being questioned is whether or not that product is legal to use. My bad for not thinking to check that it in fact was compliant, but I never dreamed it would pass all the inspections by the Feds and state officials without actually being compliant. Since there's still some amount of doubt, I'll say that it's only possibly not compliant. I can't imagine that thousands of Chinese bikes have been illegally sold for use here and that I'm the first to notice, but stranger things have happened.

Imagine that you bought a new set of tires for your car and didn't think to check them for the required labeling, as almost nobody does. Then you have a blowout that results in an accident injuring people and it's found that you were driving on illegal tires so you get sued and have no way out of it because you broke the law by using those tires on the road. How many people check compliance labeling and production date codes on tires? I only know of one and it's the guy who started this thread.

If a bike dealer says "hey this bike is technically illegal to ride because of some dumb law but you'll probably be ok" that's a completely different story and I would be choosing whether to take on that risk.

[1cylinderwonder]

Originally Posted by TXDSRIDER

Same here I have never had a stamp on the exhaust of any motorcyle or atv I have owned.

Do you own any modern, recent, bikes, besides CB's? A lot of the exhaust pipe and canister laws are rather new.

['16 TT250]

Originally Posted by 1cylinderwonder

Do you own any modern, recent, bikes, besides CB's? A lot of the exhaust pipe and canister laws are rather new.

If by "rather new" you mean they started in the 80's or so then yes, they're rather new. Just messing with you some, but the labeling laws are about that old. There have been laws written more recently that allow officers to cite and judges to rule based purely on the labeling to eliminate the judgment call of an officer without a decibel meter to be able to enforce exhaust noise laws. It used to be that if the exhaust was 'of similar construction' to the original and passed a decibel test it was ok. Since most cops can't conduct a roadside noise test that meets the requirements they couldn't enforce noise laws effectively. Now, at least in CA., they can just go off just the labels and the actual noise doesn't matter. They can also go after emissions compliance and have done so for many years, but they usually reserve that level of screwing for a problem person or street racers. If they ding you for emissions compliance it becomes very complicated and expensive to get your vehicle out of impound, they're often destroyed. Whether the vehicle is retrieved or not, the owner is liable for any costs incurred for the towing and storage and those bandits get around $200 for a tow and daily storage around $40 or so.

[Weldangrind]

Even the Honda muffler I welded on my Lifan has no such stampings; not even USFS.

['16 TT250]

Odd, every bike I recall looking at with stock mufflers have been stamped. It's engrained in my head enough that the unstamped one on the TT stood out immediately.

Edit: the coat hanger check is to verify it hasn't been tampered with, but pretty sure that if it's not stamped you can still be cited or denied entry at places where they check at entry. I know one place near here they check any bike that looks or sounds modified; no stamp, no entry.