No spark on 110cc mini atv - Page 3

MICRider · 11-29-2009, 04:37 PM

Hmmm... Wonder if the original poster ever got his mini atv running?

TurboT · 11-29-2009, 04:56 PM

Hopefully he comes back and shares. I'm interested to know if it's fixed or not..

l00ker · 12-01-2009, 10:23 AM

Thanks for all your help ... been busy with the holidays. ATV is still not running, but I am a little closer. I am now getting spark! Turns out it was a connection at the rectifier. Now I am not getting gas out of the carb. It starts and runs when starting fluid is sprayed in the carb with the air filter off. Then dies when the fluid burns off. Now time to take the carb apart! I'll keep you all posted.
Any quick suggestions on where to focus in on? I know I am getting gas out of the tank to the carb, but obviously not from the carb to the cylinder. I did drain the carb and put fresh gas in. This is the stock carb and due to lack of funds can not replace with a Mikuni (unfortunately).
I have done carbs before, but usually just for re-jetting and normal cleaning. What adjustments might need to be done? It might be just a stuck float ....
Thanks again for all the help!!!

HotelRed · 12-01-2009, 11:12 AM

I had to take my carb apart for the same reason. There was crud in there and an ant blocking the low speed jet. Cleaned it & ran a thin wire through the jets & all is fine now.

Good luck.

John

Weldangrind · 12-01-2009, 11:25 AM

When they misbehave, I usually dismantle the carb (including jets and float valves) and spray a can of carb cleaner through every passage. it's cheap at WalMart. I shy away from wire because brass jets are pretty soft.

If fuel wasn't pouring out of the overflow hose, the float isn't likely to be stuck.

Congrats on finding the rectifier problem.

TurboT · 12-01-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

Congrats on finding the rectifier problem.

X 2!

Dirty rotten rectifier's!

MICRider · 12-01-2009, 07:39 PM

Cool! Spark is the hard one, I'm sure with a good carb cleaning you will have it purring. I don't know if anyone linked this yet but I will if nobody did

http://forums.atvconnection.com/chin...-sunl-etc.html

Oh, tons of good carb tips on here too, just have to do a search on the forums for it.

LynnEdwards · 12-02-2009, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l00ker

... I am now getting spark! Turns out it was a connection at the rectifier....

I'm glad you're getting spark, and I certainly hope it stays that way. But I'm in a quandry... Do I let sleeping dogs lie, or warn you that there's a sleeping dog nearby that might wake back up...

I don't think problems with your rectifier has anything to do with your "no spark" problem. There are two independent power supply systems on your quad. One is the 12 volt system which includes your battery, the battery charge winding on your stator, the rectifier/regulator, the starter, lights, etc. The other is the ignition system power which is AC and moderately high voltage (one to several hundred volts). They aren't related (or connected) at all. You need the battery to spin the engine and get it started (unless you also have a kick start). Once the quad is started you can remove the battery and rectifier/regulator altogether and the quad will still run. With all this 12 volt stuff removed, and if you have a kick start, the quad will start up fine. All the ignition stuff is running off the stator high voltage ignition winding, and triggered by the the third stator winding outside the flywheel.

If someone told you that they had problems with their car idling rough, and then after a lot of trying different things they said he finally fixed it by tightening up the wheel lug nuts, what would you tell them?

Note (for completeness only): There are quad ignition systems that run off 12 volts, but not if you have a five pin CDI, plus you already verified that the CDI is powered with 65 volts AC while cranking. 12 volt powered ignitions are found on some newer quads, and are much less common. On these quads the high voltage winding from the stator is missing, or not wired up to the CDI.

As far as carburetors, I found this generic youtube video quite good:

waynev · 12-02-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LynnEdwards

Quote:

Originally Posted by l00ker

... I am now getting spark! Turns out it was a connection at the rectifier....

I'm glad you're getting spark, and I certainly hope it stays that way. But I'm in a quandry... Do I let sleeping dogs lie, or warn you that there's a sleeping dog nearby that might wake back up...

I don't think problems with your rectifier has anything to do with your "no spark" problem. There are two independent power supply systems on your quad. One is the 12 volt system which includes your battery, the battery charge winding on your stator, the rectifier/regulator, the starter, lights, etc. The other is the ignition system power which is AC and moderately high voltage (one to several hundred volts). They aren't related (or connected) at all. You need the battery to spin the engine and get it started (unless you also have a kick start). Once the quad is started you can remove the battery and rectifier/regulator altogether and the quad will still run. With all this 12 volt stuff removed, and if you have a kick start, the quad will start up fine. All the ignition stuff is running off the stator high voltage ignition winding, and triggered by the the third stator winding outside the flywheel.

If someone told you that they had problems with their car idling rough, and then after a lot of trying different things they said he finally fixed it by tightening up the wheel lug nuts, what would you tell them?

Note (for completeness only): There are quad ignition systems that run off 12 volts, but not if you have a five pin CDI, plus you already verified that the CDI is powered with 65 volts AC while cranking. 12 volt powered ignitions are found on some newer quads, and are much less common. On these quads the high voltage winding from the stator is missing, or not wired up to the CDI.

As far as carburetors, I found this generic youtube video quite good:

I agree with your thinking lynn, but looking at the wiring diagram i posted, the wire coming from the recifier to the CDI looks like it is the grounding wire, and a CDI with out a ground would be a major cause of no spark, agree ?

TurboT · 12-02-2009, 04:22 PM

I would never argue with LynnEdwards' logic. However this would be the second example I know of, with wires pulled out of the rectifier harness causing no spark. I *know* it fixed the one I was involved in, because as soon as I pushed the wires back in it fired right up, and the vibration and location of the wires kept loosening it and falling out again, no spark. Once I got it to stay it's run ever since.

It's a bit odd given the supplied theory..

LynnEdwards · 12-03-2009, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waynev

I agree with your thinking lynn, but looking at the wiring diagram i posted, the wire coming from the recifier to the CDI looks like it is the grounding wire, and a CDI with out a ground would be a major cause of no spark, agree ?

You raise a very good point. A CDI will not work without a ground. When I look back through my previous posts I never once suggested measuring the ground wire of the CDI to see it had continuity to frame ground. A major oversight on my part. Good call!

The ignition system doen't need a ground wire specifically going to the rectifier to work. It just needs a connection to frame ground somewhere in the wiring harness. It is possible that connection routes through the rectifier ground connection. You may have nailed it!

l00ker · 12-03-2009, 03:01 PM

I am going out now to pull the carb apart to give it a good cleaning. I will double check and tell everyone the specific wire that was causing the no spark. I will post my findings tonight.
Again BIG THANKS to everyone for their help!

l00ker · 12-03-2009, 10:56 PM

ATV is now running! A good carb cleaning did the trick. Still needs a little adjstment, but runs OK.
I double checked the spark and I am unclear exactly wich wire was loose. I checked EVERYTHING physically and with the meter just like LynnEdwards described. I was under the same impression that the rectifier had nothing to do with spark and that was why that was the ONLY thing I did not check. I did a physical inspection of the wire and the connector and that was when I got spark. I can not say 100% for sure if that was what it was, but I have spark now. I drew the conclusion that it was a loose connector.
Thanks again for the help!

Weldangrind · 12-04-2009, 01:49 AM

You're part of the team now.

Any photos of the ATV?

Reveeen · 12-04-2009, 02:38 PM

Now.........back to the fuel........I'm hoping you installed a fuel filter somewhere? The last two I got involved in had plastic chips in the fuel tank (from tapping for the petcock?) and would supply, if unfiltered, a steady supply of carb "troubles". My local auto parts store sells K+N little in line fuel filters for $2......not really worth being without.

12-01-2009, 11:25 AM	#35
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	When they misbehave, I usually dismantle the carb (including jets and float valves) and spray a can of carb cleaner through every passage. it's cheap at WalMart. I shy away from wire because brass jets are pretty soft. If fuel wasn't pouring out of the overflow hose, the float isn't likely to be stuck. Congrats on finding the rectifier problem. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

12-04-2009, 01:49 AM	#44
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	You're part of the team now. Any photos of the ATV? __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

11-29-2009, 04:37 PM	#31
MICRider Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 3,274	Hmmm... Wonder if the original poster ever got his mini atv running?
	0

11-29-2009, 04:56 PM	#32
TurboT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Posts: 2,185	Hopefully he comes back and shares. I'm interested to know if it's fixed or not..
	0

12-01-2009, 10:23 AM	#33
l00ker Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 14	Thanks for all your help ... been busy with the holidays. ATV is still not running, but I am a little closer. I am now getting spark! Turns out it was a connection at the rectifier. Now I am not getting gas out of the carb. It starts and runs when starting fluid is sprayed in the carb with the air filter off. Then dies when the fluid burns off. Now time to take the carb apart! I'll keep you all posted. Any quick suggestions on where to focus in on? I know I am getting gas out of the tank to the carb, but obviously not from the carb to the cylinder. I did drain the carb and put fresh gas in. This is the stock carb and due to lack of funds can not replace with a Mikuni (unfortunately). I have done carbs before, but usually just for re-jetting and normal cleaning. What adjustments might need to be done? It might be just a stuck float .... Thanks again for all the help!!!
	0

12-01-2009, 11:12 AM	#34
HotelRed Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Payson, AZ Posts: 53	I had to take my carb apart for the same reason. There was crud in there and an ant blocking the low speed jet. Cleaned it & ran a thin wire through the jets & all is fine now. Good luck. John
	0

12-01-2009, 07:39 PM	#37
MICRider Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 3,274	Cool! Spark is the hard one, I'm sure with a good carb cleaning you will have it purring. I don't know if anyone linked this yet but I will if nobody did http://forums.atvconnection.com/chin...-sunl-etc.html Oh, tons of good carb tips on here too, just have to do a search on the forums for it.
	0

12-02-2009, 04:22 PM	#40
TurboT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Posts: 2,185	I would never argue with LynnEdwards' logic. However this would be the second example I know of, with wires pulled out of the rectifier harness causing no spark. I know it fixed the one I was involved in, because as soon as I pushed the wires back in it fired right up, and the vibration and location of the wires kept loosening it and falling out again, no spark. Once I got it to stay it's run ever since. It's a bit odd given the supplied theory..
	0

12-03-2009, 03:01 PM	#42
l00ker Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 14	I am going out now to pull the carb apart to give it a good cleaning. I will double check and tell everyone the specific wire that was causing the no spark. I will post my findings tonight. Again BIG THANKS to everyone for their help!
	0

12-03-2009, 10:56 PM	#43
l00ker Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 14	ATV is now running! A good carb cleaning did the trick. Still needs a little adjstment, but runs OK. I double checked the spark and I am unclear exactly wich wire was loose. I checked EVERYTHING physically and with the meter just like LynnEdwards described. I was under the same impression that the rectifier had nothing to do with spark and that was why that was the ONLY thing I did not check. I did a physical inspection of the wire and the connector and that was when I got spark. I can not say 100% for sure if that was what it was, but I have spark now. I drew the conclusion that it was a loose connector. Thanks again for the help!
	0

12-04-2009, 02:38 PM	#45
Reveeen Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: orbital platform Posts: 741	Now.........back to the fuel........I'm hoping you installed a fuel filter somewhere? The last two I got involved in had plastic chips in the fuel tank (from tapping for the petcock?) and would supply, if unfiltered, a steady supply of carb "troubles". My local auto parts store sells K+N little in line fuel filters for $2......not really worth being without.
	0