HEAD GASKET CATASTROpHI - Page 2

XLsior · 10-13-2023, 10:36 PM

Can you take a photo of the sheared bolt and perhaps down the hole.

if it is a clean break into the cam hole it might still be able to clear the cylinder wall and come out.

depends if there's any bolt protrusion...either way all is not lost.

Zapkin · 10-13-2023, 10:38 PM

down in that bottom hole is everything except about 1/2 inch of thread on the bolt that came out. can you use locktite inside a motor? because I feel like when I put this back together I need those fancy grade 8 bolts from aces hardware and locktite. anyway. I will get picture of cylinder..its looks beautifully polished and everything else is pristine!!! but these freakin bolts!!! and in particular this one!!!

Bill Hilly · 10-13-2023, 10:39 PM

Stick something down in the hole to see how far down the remaining bolt is.

Zapkin · 10-13-2023, 10:40 PM

where can I get this whole bottom part? if all else fails?
nevermind stupid question but here is one that isnt what keywords should I be searching?

Zapkin · 10-13-2023, 10:42 PM

this is what I love about Chinabikes. This is not and end or world scenario. Every part is cheap and labor is free (except for my bones and joints crack and ache when I have to bend down and move around). my hawk is grounded but not for long!

XLsior · 10-13-2023, 10:48 PM

I need to see the bolt...

If its a clean break inside the cam threaded boss, then all you need to do is get a new cam follow shaft and bolt...MUST.

If the is broken bolt sticking up and holding the cam locked then either drill it out till it clears and can be removed or run the bike without the bolt until a new cylinder is desired...

OR:Otherwise just use high temp sealant smeared around both sides of the gasket to seal around the push rod galley and broken bolt shaft. Torque the 4 main head bolts and ride the bike as is without the broken cam lock bolt...

Zapkin · 10-13-2023, 10:58 PM

this is what happened earlier in the day, before I decided to "fix" the bike. 1800's cemetery on the top of a hill overlooking wheeling.

I made this video too. I think perhaps the visit to the cemetary led to the conditions of the bike. How could the bike function so well *other than the leak, with those bolts so loose? Who knows how long I could have rode it like that, but no..i went to this cemetary and then well . . . also to day is friday the 13th.

Zapkin · 10-13-2023, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLsior

I need to see the bolt...

If its a clean break inside the cam threaded boss, then all you need to do is get a new cam follow shaft and bolt...MUST.

If the is broken bolt sticking up and holding the cam locked then either drill it out till it clears and can be removed or run the bike without the bolt until a new cylinder is desired...

OR:Otherwise just use high temp sealant smeared around both sides of the gasket to seal around the push rod galley and broken bolt shaft. Torque the 4 main head bolts and ride the bike as is without the broken cam lock bolt...

its deep down in there bud. I will get more pictures. I need a quick fix. I have the dang thing taken apart now and well, i can put it back together with the right parts.

btw..the whole engine assembly area is covered with a fresh shop towel and then I was careful to cover the bike. it's in a basement area. shop and I am trying to be wary of contamination. but. Wait till you guys see how pristine this engine looks inside!! other than LOOSE BOLTS!!.

my poor baby

XLsior · 10-13-2023, 11:16 PM

Without seeing the actual bolt and where it broke the type of fix is just guessing...

Bill Hilly · 10-13-2023, 11:17 PM

If it's really deep, then take a big tipped flat scree driver , or maybe a nickel, or a quarter, which ever fits best, and using pliers, or vise grips, see if the cam follower assembly will wiggle loose you may be broken off flush.

XLsior · 10-13-2023, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Hilly

If it's really deep, then take a big tipped flat scree driver , or maybe a nickel, or a quarter, which ever fits best, and using pliers, or vise grips, see if the cam follower assembly will wiggle loose you may be broken off flush.

Yes and if its loose then don't think about running the bike without replacing the parts...

Do not pull it out with the cylinder installed there is spring washer and both cam followers being held in place by it...

if it can fall out with the engine running then all kinds if bad things could happen...

Texas Pete · 10-13-2023, 11:47 PM

If you are going to buy a torque wrench I stopped buying Harbor Freight torque wrenches, still got them but don't buy any more. I switched to Harbor Freights Digital Torque adapter. If you have a socket set already those are the way to go today. They will do All the torque standards. Flip between Foot pounds, Newton Meters, whatever you need.

If you don't have them get the HF socket adapter sets the use every socket from 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" with it. I think they are $5 so you can put any sized socket into the torque adapter.

I use this setup all the time now, HF breaker bar to Digital Torque Adapter to optional socket adapter to Socket. It will beep when you get close to the torque setting you dial into it and go solid tone when you reach your torque setting.

While not made to go reverse you can use it to profile what torque a bolt is at it mapping out a set of bolts when no manual exists.

And these electronic sensors are more accurate and don't need to be recalibrated at the frequency that the mechanical torque wrenches do. So you get precision accuracy plus low maintenance plus long life if you keep the batteries fresh and don't let the batteries go to rot inside.

Get the right one based on what torque range you need. Mine said it didn't do low ranges but it does, it just doesn't let you dial in the low numbers for the auto beep and tone but I can still simply read the display and stop once it reads the foot pounds I want.

In the morning I can double check the model number on mine if you want. I think there were three digital torque adapters in the line up and mine was probably the middle one.

Zapkin · 10-14-2023, 12:27 AM

yeah user error is a HUGE FACTOR HERE..

will this fix my problem?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/33506758280...3ABFBMppjwxuVi

XLsior · 10-14-2023, 12:38 AM

No

it will not fix your problem.

until you show the snapped bolt and can confirm that the push rod cam follower shaft is either free or stuck.

throwing a new cylinder kit will not replace the push rod cam follower shaft or the snapped head bolt.

XLsior · 10-14-2023, 03:45 AM

the bolt is about 4" long with about 3/4" of threads that thread into the follower shaft/pin the bolt does not go all the way through into the case.

Are you 100% sure its actually broken/snapped?

a photo of the bolt will confirm any doubt.

10-13-2023, 10:38 PM	#17
Zapkin Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Ohio Valley Posts: 676	down in that bottom hole is everything except about 1/2 inch of thread on the bolt that came out. can you use locktite inside a motor? because I feel like when I put this back together I need those fancy grade 8 bolts from aces hardware and locktite. anyway. I will get picture of cylinder..its looks beautifully polished and everything else is pristine!!! but these freakin bolts!!! and in particular this one!!! Attached Thumbnails __________________ 2022 Hawk 250
	0

10-13-2023, 10:40 PM	#19
Zapkin Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Ohio Valley Posts: 676	where can I get this whole bottom part? if all else fails? nevermind stupid question but here is one that isnt what keywords should I be searching? __________________ 2022 Hawk 250
	0

10-13-2023, 10:42 PM	#20
Zapkin Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Ohio Valley Posts: 676	this is what I love about Chinabikes. This is not and end or world scenario. Every part is cheap and labor is free (except for my bones and joints crack and ache when I have to bend down and move around). my hawk is grounded but not for long! __________________ 2022 Hawk 250
	2

10-13-2023, 10:58 PM	#22
Zapkin Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Ohio Valley Posts: 676	this is what happened earlier in the day, before I decided to "fix" the bike. 1800's cemetery on the top of a hill overlooking wheeling. I made this video too. I think perhaps the visit to the cemetary led to the conditions of the bike. How could the bike function so well *other than the leak, with those bolts so loose? Who knows how long I could have rode it like that, but no..i went to this cemetary and then well . . . also to day is friday the 13th. Attached Thumbnails __________________ 2022 Hawk 250
	0

10-13-2023, 11:47 PM	#27
Texas Pete Join Date: Nov 2022 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 578	If you are going to buy a torque wrench I stopped buying Harbor Freight torque wrenches, still got them but don't buy any more. I switched to Harbor Freights Digital Torque adapter. If you have a socket set already those are the way to go today. They will do All the torque standards. Flip between Foot pounds, Newton Meters, whatever you need. If you don't have them get the HF socket adapter sets the use every socket from 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" with it. I think they are $5 so you can put any sized socket into the torque adapter. I use this setup all the time now, HF breaker bar to Digital Torque Adapter to optional socket adapter to Socket. It will beep when you get close to the torque setting you dial into it and go solid tone when you reach your torque setting. While not made to go reverse you can use it to profile what torque a bolt is at it mapping out a set of bolts when no manual exists. And these electronic sensors are more accurate and don't need to be recalibrated at the frequency that the mechanical torque wrenches do. So you get precision accuracy plus low maintenance plus long life if you keep the batteries fresh and don't let the batteries go to rot inside. Get the right one based on what torque range you need. Mine said it didn't do low ranges but it does, it just doesn't let you dial in the low numbers for the auto beep and tone but I can still simply read the display and stop once it reads the foot pounds I want. In the morning I can double check the model number on mine if you want. I think there were three digital torque adapters in the line up and mine was probably the middle one. __________________ 2022 1/2 Templar X 250 - 6 gear model - 13 Front / 40 Rear Sprockets - #42 / #120 Jets - 1mm thick nitrile O-ring needle shim (removed) - Kenda K761 Dual Sport Tires - Sedona Standard Thickness Inner Tubes - Stock OEM battery, carburetor, spark plug still going strong - https://youtu.be/dhAYEKH-jFQ Texas Pete's Templar X 250 Torque Specifications Sheet Texas Pete's Engine Displacement Calculator Texas Pete's Tire and Rim Compatibility Last edited by Texas Pete; 10-14-2023 at 07:04 AM. Reason: Spelling
	0

10-13-2023, 10:36 PM	#16
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,277	Can you take a photo of the sheared bolt and perhaps down the hole. if it is a clean break into the cam hole it might still be able to clear the cylinder wall and come out. depends if there's any bolt protrusion...either way all is not lost.
	0

10-13-2023, 10:39 PM	#18
Bill Hilly Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 929	Stick something down in the hole to see how far down the remaining bolt is.
	0

10-13-2023, 10:48 PM	#21
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,277	I need to see the bolt... If its a clean break inside the cam threaded boss, then all you need to do is get a new cam follow shaft and bolt...MUST. If the is broken bolt sticking up and holding the cam locked then either drill it out till it clears and can be removed or run the bike without the bolt until a new cylinder is desired... OR:Otherwise just use high temp sealant smeared around both sides of the gasket to seal around the push rod galley and broken bolt shaft. Torque the 4 main head bolts and ride the bike as is without the broken cam lock bolt...
	0

10-13-2023, 11:16 PM	#24
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,277	Without seeing the actual bolt and where it broke the type of fix is just guessing...
	0

10-13-2023, 11:17 PM	#25
Bill Hilly Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 929	If it's really deep, then take a big tipped flat scree driver , or maybe a nickel, or a quarter, which ever fits best, and using pliers, or vise grips, see if the cam follower assembly will wiggle loose you may be broken off flush.
	1

10-14-2023, 12:27 AM	#28
Zapkin Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Ohio Valley Posts: 676	yeah user error is a HUGE FACTOR HERE.. will this fix my problem? https://www.ebay.com/itm/33506758280...3ABFBMppjwxuVi __________________ 2022 Hawk 250
	0

10-14-2023, 12:38 AM	#29
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,277	No it will not fix your problem. until you show the snapped bolt and can confirm that the push rod cam follower shaft is either free or stuck. throwing a new cylinder kit will not replace the push rod cam follower shaft or the snapped head bolt.
	0

10-14-2023, 03:45 AM	#30
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,277	the bolt is about 4" long with about 3/4" of threads that thread into the follower shaft/pin the bolt does not go all the way through into the case. Are you 100% sure its actually broken/snapped? a photo of the bolt will confirm any doubt.
	1