Vader stalls when pushed - Page 2

4T_Goblin · 11-12-2021, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China Rider 27

Carburetor related as you describe getting too much fuel. I would clean it good and check operation float as above. Watch out with the carb cleaner though on your bowl gasket it can cause rubber to swell and create issues. That is a genuine Mikuni VM22?

As far as I can tell, it is genuine. I did a little carb cleaner when I changed pilot to 15. But it's in order again.

4T_Goblin · 11-12-2021, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falkon45

check your coil, spark plug wire, and any electrical plug that is connected to ignition. I have a feeling something electrical is loose, and it's not your carb.

I'll look at that too.

I may have blown a seal when I did the first oil change

TominMO · 11-12-2021, 10:38 PM

Is the needle set too high?

4T_Goblin · 11-12-2021, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TominMO

Is the needle set too high?

It is in the middle position.

4T_Goblin · 11-14-2021, 06:50 AM

https://youtube.com/shorts/jxtmr5uc-8A?feature=share

Here is the latest

I could not find the jetting that worked. No matter how I jetted it, pilot lean or pilot rich. Float bowl 21mm and 26mm. Needle from 3rd to 5th position.
It always searching for idle. Couldn't even ride it, I looked for air leak, nothing.
What gaskets are good for the 26mn intake and vm22 carb? Might try new gasket when I go back to it.

I had the bike shooting flames at one point.
Just could not get it to be smooth. Trying again next weekend.

**JerryHawk250** · 11-14-2021, 07:25 AM

Did you ever adjust the valves? Tight valves will make it damn near impossible to tune.

4T_Goblin · 11-14-2021, 08:06 AM

I have not looked at the valves because the problems with the bike were introduced by me. I wanted to change carbs to match the exhaust I put on. It was running great until I changed carbs. It's my fault.

But that being said, while the carb is off, now would be a good time to do that. I think I'll go for .003" intake and .004" exhaust.

Jerry I think you are right about the float valve. I saw oil in my spark threads, new plugs coming out black. That made me think I'm rich.
White smoke and high revs make me feel lean.

I'm just confused by getting both conditions- could be gas leaking in through valve as you said, making it appear rich.

I believe I had my best results with a 35 pilot (back to richened mix) and float bowl at 26mm. No matter what I did with the idle screw I couldn't get the bike to not search for 5k rpms. Messing with the AF screw landed me minute changes but nothing could cease the up and down. Like the float bowl is constantly raising abs lowering?

I put on a plastic spacer between the carb and intake, can't tell if that added air leak, or if it was better metal to metal. Lots of things changing, I know I need to simplify it .

I'm going to lower the float bowl again, to around 30mm see if that helps me.

4T_Goblin · 11-14-2021, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffrey

It looks like you have the fuel enrichment lever or choke on. Lever down is on lever up is off. Thats what I could see in your video. But I could be wrong.

In this video it is down, or off. It's a short throw lever. Barely moves up when it's up.

The bike did go back and forth between running with choke on and not when off, and running with no choke only, as I was changing jets

dirtbkr188 · 11-14-2021, 10:13 AM

Can you post a few closeup pics of the carb, if you don't mind?

4T_Goblin · 11-14-2021, 01:05 PM

Here is a short version
https://youtube.com/shorts/p4Wb7tKB930?feature=share

Here is a longer version with bonus footage of nasty oil from the bottom valve cover

J4Fun · 11-14-2021, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China Rider 27

Definitely sounds fuel delivery. Check see if something is holding float open little. take hose attached to fuel intake and blow air into it while closing the float to see if it seals. Remove the needle seat see if something preventing needle seating. I would clean out all carburetor passages with spray cleaner and air if I could.

It looks to me that your problem is a sinking float. I have seen this problem before on Rotax airplane engines and it dawned on me this could be the case? Inspect that float closely. I know it's frustrating too deal with this problem but again it's pointing towards a sinking float? What's the float made out of and can you remove it to see if it's is saturated or partially saturated? Again trying to help.

4T_Goblin · 11-14-2021, 01:48 PM

I agree with the float being the main issue. It's made of brass. Haven't seen any holes in it or seen gas leaking from it.
The float needle doesn't have the usual bent clip holding it loosely to the float like my pz19 does.

There's a rubber gasket that moves around easily on the main jet emulsion tube in the float bowl.

I didn't get the float jet out to inspect so I'll get that out and look closer. The needle seems to be in good shape last I looked at it

dirtbkr188 · 11-14-2021, 02:37 PM

I have two things I'd like to mention...

1. I have to agree with Jeffrey and what he stated above, The lever for the fuel enrichener si supposed to be UP when the plunger is closed. Pushing the lever DOWN opens the plunger, allowing extra fuel to enter during a cold start. The pic below shows what I mean.

2. I also have to agree with everyone who questioned why you went from a #35 pilot jet to a #15, when there are 7 jet sizes in between the #35 and the #15 pilot jets. You cannot jet a carb with such drastic, radical jet size changes; usually it puts the carb so far out of whack that you can't dial it in. Here is the size chart for the VM22/210 pilot jets.

Just my 2¢...

4T_Goblin · 11-14-2021, 03:35 PM

Ok then I definitely had the thing running properly thinking that I had the choke on.

I went to 15 because I read others having similar issues but that's null now because I've been doing it wrong by missing the direction on the choke

So that would explain the extra fuel in the cylinder, dumping gas in with the choke open.

In going to try again. Starting with 35 pilot

dirtbkr188 · 11-14-2021, 05:23 PM

May I suggest a baseline setting to start from? With the #100 main and #35 pilot jet, try setting the air screw OUT 1.5 turns from seated, then ride the bike to see what it does. With an air screw (like you have) turning it IN richens the mixture, make the adjustments a 1/4-turn at a time, and ride the bike. If it stumbles or sputters, try another 1/4-turn IN and test ride. If it blubbers, make the 1/4-turn adjustment the opposite way (OUT) to lean the mixture.
The air screw controls from idle to 1/4-throttle, the jet needle controls from 1/4 to 3/4-throttle, and the main jet is from 3/4 to full throttle...BUT they overlap each other, that's why you have to ride the bike after an adjustment to see what it does throughout the whole throttle range.
If you get to within a 1/4-turn from having the air screw seated, then you need to go up one size on the pilot jet, and if you get to 2-3/4-turns OUT, you need to go one size down on the pilot jet.

11-12-2021, 10:38 PM	#18
TominMO Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: De Soto, MO Posts: 1,868	Is the needle set too high? __________________ 2021 Lifan Xpect--sold 2022 Lifan KPX 1972 Honda CT90--The Carrot 1969 Honda CT90--The Tomahto Cheesy is the WDK (workplace drama king). Now retired. Nope, back in the saddle. Climate: The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A24fWmNA6lM How our government really works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjadCd0VRBw Question all authority.....think for yourself
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11-14-2021, 07:25 AM	#21
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,553	Did you ever adjust the valves? Tight valves will make it damn near impossible to tune. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
	1

11-14-2021, 06:50 AM	#20
4T_Goblin Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 239	https://youtube.com/shorts/jxtmr5uc-8A?feature=share Here is the latest I could not find the jetting that worked. No matter how I jetted it, pilot lean or pilot rich. Float bowl 21mm and 26mm. Needle from 3rd to 5th position. It always searching for idle. Couldn't even ride it, I looked for air leak, nothing. What gaskets are good for the 26mn intake and vm22 carb? Might try new gasket when I go back to it. I had the bike shooting flames at one point. Just could not get it to be smooth. Trying again next weekend.
	0

11-14-2021, 08:06 AM	#22
4T_Goblin Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 239	I have not looked at the valves because the problems with the bike were introduced by me. I wanted to change carbs to match the exhaust I put on. It was running great until I changed carbs. It's my fault. But that being said, while the carb is off, now would be a good time to do that. I think I'll go for .003" intake and .004" exhaust. Jerry I think you are right about the float valve. I saw oil in my spark threads, new plugs coming out black. That made me think I'm rich. White smoke and high revs make me feel lean. I'm just confused by getting both conditions- could be gas leaking in through valve as you said, making it appear rich. I believe I had my best results with a 35 pilot (back to richened mix) and float bowl at 26mm. No matter what I did with the idle screw I couldn't get the bike to not search for 5k rpms. Messing with the AF screw landed me minute changes but nothing could cease the up and down. Like the float bowl is constantly raising abs lowering? I put on a plastic spacer between the carb and intake, can't tell if that added air leak, or if it was better metal to metal. Lots of things changing, I know I need to simplify it . I'm going to lower the float bowl again, to around 30mm see if that helps me.
	0

11-14-2021, 10:13 AM	#24
dirtbkr188 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 498	Can you post a few closeup pics of the carb, if you don't mind?
	1

11-14-2021, 01:05 PM	#25
4T_Goblin Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 239	Here is a short version https://youtube.com/shorts/p4Wb7tKB930?feature=share Here is a longer version with bonus footage of nasty oil from the bottom valve cover
	0

11-14-2021, 01:48 PM	#27
4T_Goblin Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 239	I agree with the float being the main issue. It's made of brass. Haven't seen any holes in it or seen gas leaking from it. The float needle doesn't have the usual bent clip holding it loosely to the float like my pz19 does. There's a rubber gasket that moves around easily on the main jet emulsion tube in the float bowl. I didn't get the float jet out to inspect so I'll get that out and look closer. The needle seems to be in good shape last I looked at it
	0

11-14-2021, 02:37 PM	#28
dirtbkr188 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 498	I have two things I'd like to mention... 1. I have to agree with Jeffrey and what he stated above, The lever for the fuel enrichener si supposed to be UP when the plunger is closed. Pushing the lever DOWN opens the plunger, allowing extra fuel to enter during a cold start. The pic below shows what I mean. 2. I also have to agree with everyone who questioned why you went from a #35 pilot jet to a #15, when there are 7 jet sizes in between the #35 and the #15 pilot jets. You cannot jet a carb with such drastic, radical jet size changes; usually it puts the carb so far out of whack that you can't dial it in. Here is the size chart for the VM22/210 pilot jets. Just my 2¢...
	2

11-14-2021, 03:35 PM	#29
4T_Goblin Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 239	Ok then I definitely had the thing running properly thinking that I had the choke on. I went to 15 because I read others having similar issues but that's null now because I've been doing it wrong by missing the direction on the choke So that would explain the extra fuel in the cylinder, dumping gas in with the choke open. In going to try again. Starting with 35 pilot
	0

11-14-2021, 05:23 PM	#30
dirtbkr188 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 498	May I suggest a baseline setting to start from? With the #100 main and #35 pilot jet, try setting the air screw OUT 1.5 turns from seated, then ride the bike to see what it does. With an air screw (like you have) turning it IN richens the mixture, make the adjustments a 1/4-turn at a time, and ride the bike. If it stumbles or sputters, try another 1/4-turn IN and test ride. If it blubbers, make the 1/4-turn adjustment the opposite way (OUT) to lean the mixture. The air screw controls from idle to 1/4-throttle, the jet needle controls from 1/4 to 3/4-throttle, and the main jet is from 3/4 to full throttle...BUT they overlap each other, that's why you have to ride the bike after an adjustment to see what it does throughout the whole throttle range. If you get to within a 1/4-turn from having the air screw seated, then you need to go up one size on the pilot jet, and if you get to 2-3/4-turns OUT, you need to go one size down on the pilot jet.
	1