Dual-sport: Mini edition

[McQueen216]

Over at (this) thread, a sidebar discussion broke out over using tiny Chinese street bikes as a basis for dual-sport… stupidness. Rather than continue to keep it there as an under-current, I thought it worthwhile to bring it here. Stupid ideas merit sunshine.

What happens when you snatch up a… Lifan KP Mini, spend the winter playing mad scientist with it, and set out for… summer adventures on the nearest BDR? Or you stumble into a Kymco Spade, add kit to it, and decide to ride it like the scrambler it was never meant to be.

I own one fantastic, glorious street bike for all-around city life - a T100. I also have a new-to-me this year ‘73 CB350 that is going to… take a couple of years to get it to where I want it, even with the great shape it’s in now (it was a great find). I have visions of fire roads and am… maybe 15 miles from where one ends. Like others, I could try to make one of these bikes work; I could swap out one of these for something that would be ideally suited; or, I could try to find something with a low enough pain threshold that I could also add it to the stable and maintain peace in the house eg not a new ‘22 KLR.

I live at… oh… let’s call it 1’. WABDR goes to 7300? It’s one of the easiest, most gentle BDR routes out there. Idaho, Utah, Nevada, a weeeee bit of southern CA… and BLM land all over the PacNW. There’s a lot to do that starts up here, from good ideas to really dumb ideas.

And lots of other folks have done things with these bikes already - in the US and around the world. The Spade 150 has a popular counterpart outside the US, the A.I.R 150. The Honda Trail is… seen everywhere. The Grom is… popular. The Benelli TNT is a clone of the… Kawasaki? The CFMoto Papio is also a clone of… something.
If I could find a Spade for little money - I’d probably start that project now. If Venom drop-shipped a KP Mini to my door and said, we want to see you do this… I would make a carb setup work, I suppose.

What would your project entail. Where would your priorities be. What would you need to make this successful? How would you look to use it.
Stupid ideas welcome.

[XLsior]

If you can find knobby tires and handle bar risers then any CT/trail, Cub, Grom clone should manage some dualsport duty to some degree.
If your trying to frugally sip fuel over a greater distance then the 150ish cub/pitbike engine found in pretty much all of this category will do 100mpg with relative ease.

people have gone round the world on CT90-110 (aka Aussie postie bikes) So yes they are capable.

It just comes down to personal preference.

Im looking for a potential used cub/postie project but I still need to get my first project bike on the road before I take another slice of cake.

[TominMO]

Results of Amazon search for 12" knobby motorcycle tires:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=12%22+kno...ref=nb_sb_noss

[McQueen216]

Originally Posted by TominMO

Results of Amazon search for 12" knobby motorcycle tires

Yeah - that certainly does seem to have been sorted out, over the years, in a wide range of rations. I’ve now watched - I’m not ashamed to say - a few folks talk about their (mis)adventures in this area, to include talking about finding and matching tires to riding conditions. Scale doesn’t seem to change the challenge - big bike - it’s an issue; small bike - it’s an issue.

It might be more of an issue at the smaller scale. Clearance becomes an issue…

[McQueen216]

Originally Posted by XLsior

It just comes down to personal preference.

It has been kind of interesting to dig into something like this and see just how varied and diverse the models are - like, that the SSR Razkull 125 had a fuel tank of almost four gallons, which was so absolutely different from the Grom itself, which had a tank that carried about a gallon and a half. Most seem to be about that, some up closer to two gallons. But 3.9 gallons? What the hell. For traveling remote areas - fuel is a big deal.

[XLsior]

Originally Posted by McQueen216

It has been kind of interesting to dig into something like this and see just how varied and diverse the models are - like, that the SSR Razkull 125 had a fuel tank of almost four gallons, which was so absolutely different from the Grom itself, which had a tank that carried about a gallon and a half. Most seem to be about that, some up closer to two gallons. But 3.9 gallons? What the hell. For traveling remote areas - fuel is a big deal.

Most of the postie CT110's here in Aus get modified with an additional XR200 tank for extended range remote trips...

[McQueen216]

Originally Posted by XLsior

Most of the postie CT110's here in Aus get modified with an additional XR200 tank for extended range remote trips...

Right? Those seem to be common - and commonly used - with the CT family. I somehow doubt, how example, that Lifan is going to invest in developing this for the KP Mini. And as common as some methods are in the dual-sport and adventure community - secondary tanks mounted on the tail of the bike, plumbed in serial into the bike, for example, or oversized replacement tanks or auxiliary tanks attached on the side - I somehow suspect that any answer will remain, pour more fuel into the primary tank, fuel that you carry somewhere with your kit. Mount points for panniers seem unlikely.

[XLsior]

Grom clones are not quite as forgiving as Trial/Cub clones as far as adaptability but being so common probably have a decent aftermarket product selection. Ct70Dax and z50Monkey clones might appear more 'capable' though not sure how easy it is finding stuff made to fit for them.

But how close are we getting into used TW200 range....

[Coloradogoose]

Originally Posted by XLsior

But how close are we getting into used TW200 range....

In my area, IF you can find one they are $4000 or more. Even the clapped out older ones are going for crazy money these days around here.

I think the other question though is what is the purpose of going this route? For me, I love the idea of doing something goofy for the sake of doing something goofy. Sure, we all know a KPX would handle this stuff with little issue, but why not push the limits? It's kinda like Ed March on YouTube, driving from Idaho to Moab in a Chinese Willy's toy jeep. A real jeep would work better, but why not do something new just for the sake of it?

[McQueen216]

Originally Posted by XLsior

But how close are we getting into used TW200 range....

Right? But at close to… US$4,000 that’s a bit of a sell. And I just made a run through the used market here for the… 1000km range, and it’s… not pretty in terms of finding them at some kind of basement price. At $4k, TBH, I’d rather get a Himmy with it’s deliberate storage plan - pannier accessories, fuel racks up front, etc - and aftermarket for… everything. And EFI, vs carb. Which isn’t a bad idea - there’s a 2021 Himmy for sale right now, about… 200km from here, for ~US$4k with the kind of mileage that says, I was purchased for someone as a gift and they said, Yeah, no.

I see modding a Grom and it’s clones as a challenge. More than just cramming in, say, 14” rims, to change clearance. The spade is closer… to a UJM style, though that’s not saying much. The K-Pipe is probably closer still to that, EFI, but moving in the wrong direction in engine size (though it should take the Lifan 190cc engine swap). A small scrambler, vs a small Grom that’s been scrambled. And not the same as an actual purpose built.

[XLsior]

Ahh times have changed...seems the humble Tdub went 2x
Not even an available model in Australia...we got the AG200/farm bike.

Used postie bikes have gone 2-3x here in Oz....

It does make the Bikes out of China look more and more better value without question.

I get the Mini bike appeal. a grom clone with higher set handle bars and knobbies will get you to a lot of places on half as much fuel as the bigger bikes.

https://www.youtube.com/@SmallBikeStuff

[McQueen216]

If I suddenly stop posting on this site…

It’s because I’m arranging to go look at a 2019 Kymco Spade 150i sometime in the next couple of days. “Used” - in that it has mileage on par with a warm day in Phoenix or Cairo. It certainly looks like it was purchased and then abandoned… and stored inside, away from the elements.

We shall see. Price is sounding favorable and selling wants to move it. I like the five speed and the EFI, and I’m thinking through how to adapt pannier racks, options to reroute exhaust, and how to learn Taiwanese Chinese so I can tap into the A.I.R 150i community for ideas, expertise, and their aftermarket stuff.

If I move some of the brewing stuff in the garage, make a small wall… I could hide this over towards the corner…

[TominMO]

English is pretty common in Taiwan, esp. the capital Taipei. Mandarin is the de facto Chinese trade language. You should have little trouble on a Taiwanese forum.

Or this might be helpful: https://www.kymcoforum.com/

[McQueen216]

You’re enabling…

[McQueen216]

I just want everyone to know - today, I went and checked out an absolutely gorgeous Kymco Spade, super low miles (~150?), fantastic price… and I did not buy it.

Look at me adulting!