KPM200 vs SSR Buccaneer?

7RC · 01-29-2022, 10:09 PM

This may be posted somewhere, but I couldn't find anything. For the price, which of these machines is the better buy? I just want a comfortable bike for back roads, no highways. Thanks!

wheelbender6 · 01-29-2022, 10:53 PM

Good question. The KP is more modern and agile, but the Buccaneer is classic cool.
I don't know how they match up performance wise.

culcune · 01-30-2022, 11:21 AM

I like Lifan, but the Buccaneer uses the sweet-sounding Lifan V-twin engine, so you are covered either way. Chopper Charles has had a lengthy ownership of his Buccaneer, and loved it, but has several other toys to play with, now. I do believe he still owns his Buccaneer, however.

I understand the KPM might be a bit uncomfortable since it uses a flat seat (for looks). The KP or KPR might be a bit more comfortable, although I believe the 198cc engines might have slight differences to the KPM, with the advantages going to the KPM.

I doubt you could go wrong with either one as long as you really want a minimalist bike, which it sounds like (small-displacement, lower speed, low drama bike=minimalist).

Falkon45 · 01-30-2022, 06:59 PM

I have the KPM. It's fairly comfortable for me, but hard seats don't effect me much. The bucc has 1 more HP, and the v twin probably sounds a little better. I enjoy the KPM a lot, though. I hate the long throttle twist, though. And the aftermarket is slim, unless you order from China.

TominMO · 01-30-2022, 07:04 PM

One video on fast throttle modding:

david3921 · 01-30-2022, 09:39 PM

Loads of useful information from 1cylinderwonder and Choppercharles in regards to the Buccaneer. BTW, the Buc has a 250cc motor based on the Yamaha V star 250. Some engine parts (all?) swap over and there is also a big bore available to bump up the displacement to 314cc or 334cc depending on who does the math (post #24 in the below thread).

http://chinariders.net/showthread.ph...ight=Buccaneer

Based on the above, you get Lifan engine quality either way you go but a larger engine with room to grow with the Buccaneer. Your riding style will dictate your choice.

Megadan · 01-31-2022, 02:27 AM

I think you would be happy with either bike IMHO.

Performance wise they are close in terms of power to weight. The twin will have slightly better top end over a single, but it's not going to be an enormous difference. The KPM does have an extra gear to work with, and is water cooled vs. the air/oil cooled Bucc. The Bucc also has some small aftermarket support out in the world thanks to it being sold in other countries under other names, if that matters to you.

The thing that would help the most in deciding would honestly be being able to simply sit on the bikes. One might fit you better than the other in terms of ergos. The hard part is finding the bikes to have a sit.

**JerryHawk250** · 01-31-2022, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TominMO

One video on fast throttle modding:

I've done this same mod on all my china bikes. Cheap and easy.

ChopperCharles · 03-08-2022, 01:05 AM

Big bore kit is no longer produced, and the company went under. I should have bought it when I wanted it, but I was short on money at the time.

So, the KPM's top speed is 78mph indicated according to youtube videos. Also according to reviews and videos the speedometer is off 4.5% (68mph indicated was 65mph gps). So that brings the true top speed to 74.5 mph.

I don't remember what the Buccaneer's error was, but I documented it somewhere. I have reprogrammed the speedometer to my GPS, so it's accurate within 1mph at 70mph. I have had my buccaneer to 80mph actual frequently. It can do it easily in traffic, if you draft, with the stock gearing. To get it to actually do 80mph by itself, you'll have to do the 525 chain and sprocket upgrade and drop a tooth on the front sprocket. (Technically you can drop a tooth without upgrading the chain and sprockets, but it'll be a 530 chain running on a Virago's 525 countershaft sprocket. Won't hurt anything. But you also won't get the benefit of losing 8 pounds of unsprung rotating mass). With this setup I can hit 80-81mph, and I'm a 280 pound fat guy with the surface area of a barn door. A thinner guy on a less clapped-out engine will probably do better.

Note that aftermarket tires will slow you down, as they're considerably heavier than stock. Heavy duty tubes will also add some weight. When it's a little bike and you're a fat guy, every pound counts.

Finally, the bike runs much better with the Lexmoto Vendetta exhaust on it. Alternatively, get a 2019+ Italjet or CMC buccaneer exhaust. The 2017 is the only us model, and the rear exhaust tube meets the front exhaust tube at 90 degrees, with no expansion in the tube diameter. The 2019+ models overseas had a proper y-shaped pipe feeding into a larger pipe before connecting to the muffler.

Stock US-spec exhaust (look under the brake pedal to see the 90 degree attachment)

Later-model upgraded stock exhaust (look at the same place and see it's a proper 2-into-1 header arrangement)

Now, I'm not sure what performance mods there are for the KPM200, but if it can hit 75mph without a gearing change, then it's doing pretty well. It does have an extra gear though, so my money is on the buccaneer being a little faster.

I currently have over 13,000 miles on my Buccaneer. I made the mistake of "upgrading" the air filter with a genuine K&N pod filter. Gave me a couple mph on the top end, but I rode the bike in the dirt. A lot. My bike started smelling like oil. I kept getting wifts of it at a stop. My buddy following my said it smells like oil. Next time I serviced the bike I took the K&N off to clean and re-oil it... and there was a TON of gritty dirty oily crap all inside the intake. The K&N might work fine for the street, but not for the dust clouds that riding on gravel and dirt produce. It basically sandblasted my rings and cylinder walls.

So the buccaneer needs a ring job right now. It'll still do 73mph or so, maybe 75. So it's not too far down on power, but it's definitely a little down on power. I also have big heavy knobby tires on it, so that robs a few mph as well. Also after 10k miles or so it started occasionally popping out of 4th and dropping back to 3rd. Only rarely. And do realize I'm a fatass who rides this thing like it's a dragster. I put an XV250 Barnett kevlar clutch and springs kit in it just so I could lift the front wheel in first gear. (and a bit in second too).

Stock, the buccaneer's gearing sucks. But $15-$20 will get you a virago front sprocket to fix that. It's still a five speed, whereas the KPM is a 6-speed.

The Buccaneer has a higher top speed with the proper gearing, and likely a couple horses more. There are proven performance mods for the bike, including air filter and K&N exhaust. (Just see my previous caveats about the filter).

Parts availability for the KPM is unknown to me. For the Buccaneer, SSR keeps all the parts in a warehouse and I've never waited more than a week for anything other than the turn signals, which had to go through a re-design to keep them from failing. (That took several months to get the new signals into the country and off the boat). The 250 motor also can be repaired with any part from a virago.

A lot of shops won't work on Chinese bikes because of parts availability. Having a bike that's half virago is a definite plus there.

Buccaneer has a 30" seat height and the same rider's triangle as a Guzzi stornello. So it's suitable for taller folks, but still approachable for new riders.

I'm not sure about the lifan's suspension, but the rear suspension on the Buccaneer is the best I've had on a street bike pretty much ever. (But all my previous street bikes were Hondas from the 80s and 90s so take that with a grain of salt). It also has 8 inches of ground clearance.

As far as which is better... well it really comes down to which one speaks to you more. Performance is pretty similar, so unless you're trying to squeeze the most performance out of your budget, get the one that you think looks cooler or fits you better, or that you just bond with.

Charles.

Falkon45 · 03-09-2022, 11:58 AM

Me, at about 280 with all my gear only hit 60 mph on the GPS. A max of 73 iirc. And that was going downhill and drafting. You being able to hit those speeds on the bucc puts it at an advantage over the KPM. Lol.

wheelbender6 · 03-12-2022, 12:42 PM

Does the KPM 200 have any off pavement capability? I'm thinking about dirt roads and gravel roads. Not single track trails.

Falkon45 · 03-12-2022, 01:35 PM

It's not bad on gravel roads, as long as you have proper tires. The fork had decent enough travel, but the shock bottoms out pretty easily. I've done a little off-roading on mine, but with the normal street tires, second gear and slow throttle control was required.

Coloradogoose · 03-13-2022, 04:27 AM

Honestly, I think the Buccaneer would serve you better on dirt. My KPM is fine on gravel/dirt, but I put proper dual sport tires on it. The stock tires were scary on dirt roads around here. If your "back roads" are going to include a lot of gravel/dirt, you'd likely need to invest in tires for the KPM to feel safe.

ChopperCharles · 03-14-2022, 04:22 PM

The problem with the buccaneer for dirt is the tire sizes. A 15" rear and 17" front mean you're stuck with the OEM dual sport tread, which is very street biased. It's better than a full street tread, but there's not a lot of options out there. I went on aliexpress and bought a 17x3.00 rear rim and a 19x2-something front rim, and had buchanan make me custom spokes. (They're in the database so you can order them from buchanan). This did make the bike heavier, and thus a little slower. I also had to change sprockets, as the bigger tire really affected gearing.

FWIW I'm over 300 lbs now (covid+breakup=get fat) and the Buccaneer's shock is amazing. It never bottoms. The front forks I've bottomed in rock gardens, but for the most part they're fine. I was asking more of the buccaneer than most people ask out of their full-on trail bikes.

Charles.

01-29-2022, 10:09 PM	#1
7RC Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 5	KPM200 vs SSR Buccaneer? This may be posted somewhere, but I couldn't find anything. For the price, which of these machines is the better buy? I just want a comfortable bike for back roads, no highways. Thanks!
	0

01-30-2022, 11:21 AM	#3
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,035	I like Lifan, but the Buccaneer uses the sweet-sounding Lifan V-twin engine, so you are covered either way. Chopper Charles has had a lengthy ownership of his Buccaneer, and loved it, but has several other toys to play with, now. I do believe he still owns his Buccaneer, however. I understand the KPM might be a bit uncomfortable since it uses a flat seat (for looks). The KP or KPR might be a bit more comfortable, although I believe the 198cc engines might have slight differences to the KPM, with the advantages going to the KPM. I doubt you could go wrong with either one as long as you really want a minimalist bike, which it sounds like (small-displacement, lower speed, low drama bike=minimalist). __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	0

01-30-2022, 07:04 PM	#5
TominMO Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: De Soto, MO Posts: 1,869	One video on fast throttle modding: __________________ 2021 Lifan Xpect--sold 2022 Lifan KPX 1972 Honda CT90--The Carrot 1969 Honda CT90--The Tomahto Cheesy is the WDK (workplace drama king). Now retired. Nope, back in the saddle. Climate: The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A24fWmNA6lM How our government really works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjadCd0VRBw Question all authority.....think for yourself
	3

01-30-2022, 09:39 PM	#6
david3921 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,030	Loads of useful information from 1cylinderwonder and Choppercharles in regards to the Buccaneer. BTW, the Buc has a 250cc motor based on the Yamaha V star 250. Some engine parts (all?) swap over and there is also a big bore available to bump up the displacement to 314cc or 334cc depending on who does the math (post #24 in the below thread). http://chinariders.net/showthread.ph...ight=Buccaneer Based on the above, you get Lifan engine quality either way you go but a larger engine with room to grow with the Buccaneer. Your riding style will dictate your choice. __________________ 2012 Kawasaki Versys 1984 Honda Magna V65 2016 Rhino 250 2016 Tao Tao 125D
	1

01-31-2022, 02:27 AM	#7
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 7,990	I think you would be happy with either bike IMHO. Performance wise they are close in terms of power to weight. The twin will have slightly better top end over a single, but it's not going to be an enormous difference. The KPM does have an extra gear to work with, and is water cooled vs. the air/oil cooled Bucc. The Bucc also has some small aftermarket support out in the world thanks to it being sold in other countries under other names, if that matters to you. The thing that would help the most in deciding would honestly be being able to simply sit on the bikes. One might fit you better than the other in terms of ergos. The hard part is finding the bikes to have a sit. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	0

01-29-2022, 10:53 PM	#2
wheelbender6 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,902	Good question. The KP is more modern and agile, but the Buccaneer is classic cool. I don't know how they match up performance wise. __________________ "Its not WHAT you ride; its THAT you ride"
	0

01-30-2022, 06:59 PM	#4
Falkon45 Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Savannah, Ga Posts: 759	I have the KPM. It's fairly comfortable for me, but hard seats don't effect me much. The bucc has 1 more HP, and the v twin probably sounds a little better. I enjoy the KPM a lot, though. I hate the long throttle twist, though. And the aftermarket is slim, unless you order from China.
	1

03-08-2022, 01:05 AM	#9
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	Big bore kit is no longer produced, and the company went under. I should have bought it when I wanted it, but I was short on money at the time. So, the KPM's top speed is 78mph indicated according to youtube videos. Also according to reviews and videos the speedometer is off 4.5% (68mph indicated was 65mph gps). So that brings the true top speed to 74.5 mph. I don't remember what the Buccaneer's error was, but I documented it somewhere. I have reprogrammed the speedometer to my GPS, so it's accurate within 1mph at 70mph. I have had my buccaneer to 80mph actual frequently. It can do it easily in traffic, if you draft, with the stock gearing. To get it to actually do 80mph by itself, you'll have to do the 525 chain and sprocket upgrade and drop a tooth on the front sprocket. (Technically you can drop a tooth without upgrading the chain and sprockets, but it'll be a 530 chain running on a Virago's 525 countershaft sprocket. Won't hurt anything. But you also won't get the benefit of losing 8 pounds of unsprung rotating mass). With this setup I can hit 80-81mph, and I'm a 280 pound fat guy with the surface area of a barn door. A thinner guy on a less clapped-out engine will probably do better. Note that aftermarket tires will slow you down, as they're considerably heavier than stock. Heavy duty tubes will also add some weight. When it's a little bike and you're a fat guy, every pound counts. Finally, the bike runs much better with the Lexmoto Vendetta exhaust on it. Alternatively, get a 2019+ Italjet or CMC buccaneer exhaust. The 2017 is the only us model, and the rear exhaust tube meets the front exhaust tube at 90 degrees, with no expansion in the tube diameter. The 2019+ models overseas had a proper y-shaped pipe feeding into a larger pipe before connecting to the muffler. Stock US-spec exhaust (look under the brake pedal to see the 90 degree attachment) Later-model upgraded stock exhaust (look at the same place and see it's a proper 2-into-1 header arrangement) Now, I'm not sure what performance mods there are for the KPM200, but if it can hit 75mph without a gearing change, then it's doing pretty well. It does have an extra gear though, so my money is on the buccaneer being a little faster. I currently have over 13,000 miles on my Buccaneer. I made the mistake of "upgrading" the air filter with a genuine K&N pod filter. Gave me a couple mph on the top end, but I rode the bike in the dirt. A lot. My bike started smelling like oil. I kept getting wifts of it at a stop. My buddy following my said it smells like oil. Next time I serviced the bike I took the K&N off to clean and re-oil it... and there was a TON of gritty dirty oily crap all inside the intake. The K&N might work fine for the street, but not for the dust clouds that riding on gravel and dirt produce. It basically sandblasted my rings and cylinder walls. So the buccaneer needs a ring job right now. It'll still do 73mph or so, maybe 75. So it's not too far down on power, but it's definitely a little down on power. I also have big heavy knobby tires on it, so that robs a few mph as well. Also after 10k miles or so it started occasionally popping out of 4th and dropping back to 3rd. Only rarely. And do realize I'm a fatass who rides this thing like it's a dragster. I put an XV250 Barnett kevlar clutch and springs kit in it just so I could lift the front wheel in first gear. (and a bit in second too). Stock, the buccaneer's gearing sucks. But $15-$20 will get you a virago front sprocket to fix that. It's still a five speed, whereas the KPM is a 6-speed. The Buccaneer has a higher top speed with the proper gearing, and likely a couple horses more. There are proven performance mods for the bike, including air filter and K&N exhaust. (Just see my previous caveats about the filter). Parts availability for the KPM is unknown to me. For the Buccaneer, SSR keeps all the parts in a warehouse and I've never waited more than a week for anything other than the turn signals, which had to go through a re-design to keep them from failing. (That took several months to get the new signals into the country and off the boat). The 250 motor also can be repaired with any part from a virago. A lot of shops won't work on Chinese bikes because of parts availability. Having a bike that's half virago is a definite plus there. Buccaneer has a 30" seat height and the same rider's triangle as a Guzzi stornello. So it's suitable for taller folks, but still approachable for new riders. I'm not sure about the lifan's suspension, but the rear suspension on the Buccaneer is the best I've had on a street bike pretty much ever. (But all my previous street bikes were Hondas from the 80s and 90s so take that with a grain of salt). It also has 8 inches of ground clearance. As far as which is better... well it really comes down to which one speaks to you more. Performance is pretty similar, so unless you're trying to squeeze the most performance out of your budget, get the one that you think looks cooler or fits you better, or that you just bond with. Charles. Last edited by ChopperCharles; 04-11-2022 at 12:18 PM.
	1

03-09-2022, 11:58 AM	#10
Falkon45 Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Savannah, Ga Posts: 759	Me, at about 280 with all my gear only hit 60 mph on the GPS. A max of 73 iirc. And that was going downhill and drafting. You being able to hit those speeds on the bucc puts it at an advantage over the KPM. Lol.
	0

03-12-2022, 12:42 PM	#11
wheelbender6 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,902	Does the KPM 200 have any off pavement capability? I'm thinking about dirt roads and gravel roads. Not single track trails. __________________ "Its not WHAT you ride; its THAT you ride"
	0

03-12-2022, 01:35 PM	#12
Falkon45 Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Savannah, Ga Posts: 759	It's not bad on gravel roads, as long as you have proper tires. The fork had decent enough travel, but the shock bottoms out pretty easily. I've done a little off-roading on mine, but with the normal street tires, second gear and slow throttle control was required.
	1

03-13-2022, 04:27 AM	#13
Coloradogoose Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 91	Honestly, I think the Buccaneer would serve you better on dirt. My KPM is fine on gravel/dirt, but I put proper dual sport tires on it. The stock tires were scary on dirt roads around here. If your "back roads" are going to include a lot of gravel/dirt, you'd likely need to invest in tires for the KPM to feel safe.
	0

03-14-2022, 04:22 PM	#14
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	The problem with the buccaneer for dirt is the tire sizes. A 15" rear and 17" front mean you're stuck with the OEM dual sport tread, which is very street biased. It's better than a full street tread, but there's not a lot of options out there. I went on aliexpress and bought a 17x3.00 rear rim and a 19x2-something front rim, and had buchanan make me custom spokes. (They're in the database so you can order them from buchanan). This did make the bike heavier, and thus a little slower. I also had to change sprockets, as the bigger tire really affected gearing. FWIW I'm over 300 lbs now (covid+breakup=get fat) and the Buccaneer's shock is amazing. It never bottoms. The front forks I've bottomed in rock gardens, but for the most part they're fine. I was asking more of the buccaneer than most people ask out of their full-on trail bikes. Charles.
	0