why is the KPX250 75 pounds heavier than a Templar X?

[Discoveror]

Comparing website 'Net Weights', KPX250 (333 pounds) - Templar X (258 pounds) = 75 pounds!


I recall reading that the Templar X has a pretty stout/thick frame and includes a bash plate.

Neither is water-cooled.

Gas tanks are nearly the same size ((3 - 2.3 gallons) * 6.1 pounds per gallon = 4.27 pounds) ... not that that should matter since 'net weight' is dry i.e. without gas and lubricants.


What's 75 pounds, among friends? Well, 75 pounds / 258 pounds = 29% ... which strikes me as a pretty significant increase over the Templar X for the KPX250.


I'm puzzled ??? (as usual)

[Thumper]

I don't think that a KPX250 weighs more than 280-290 with a full tank. Maybe 300, but I'd be surprised if that much. But I also think the Templar is comparable.

I can look at the Templar X and see alloy footpegs,

but a magnet sticks to
the frame, the swingarm, the luggage rack,
-but not the front fork tubes or triple clamps, and not the handlebars either. And all of the controls on the handlebar are also alloy (or plastic) aside from stainless steel bolts everywhere (and I do mean everywhere, all of them are stainless, except the gear shift bolt).

But my guess is that this is the same on the KPX. So my assumption is that there is something different about the way that weight is calculated (full tank?) or something.

On the trail, I have picked it up many times and I don't think it is more than 275 with gas in the tank. No really. I have picked it up many times, and I know my strength (weakness).

Could the Zongshen engine have more alloy than the Lifan? Those engines look so similar. I swear they are from the same specifications (maybe not entirely, but almost).

[Megadan]

May be some small discrepancies in how they were weighed. It's always hard to say because manufacturers all tend to state weights differently. Some do completely dry, some define dry as no fuel. etc.

The KPX is more of a full road bike than the Templar, so it's frame is likely heavier. Extra bracing, full frame, thicker steel tubing. etc. It weighs close to the same as what most of the Hawk style bikes weigh, which to me makes sense. As also pointed out, the use of steel on more parts instead of aluminum.

[Discoveror]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I don't think it is more than 275 with gas in the tank.

I estimated the Templar X 'wet' weight as:

258 net pounds +(2.3 gallons * 6.1 pounds per gallon) + 3 pounds lubricants = 275 pounds 'wet'

The 258 "net" number is right off the PSM website.

Your arms seem to have a Good built-in weight scale!

[Discoveror]

Originally Posted by Megadan

The KPX is more of a full road bike than the Templar, so it's frame is likely heavier. Extra bracing, full frame, thicker steel tubing. etc.

Following up on your 'hint', MegaDan, I looked up the Templar X "weight capacity", stated as 440 pounds on the PSM site.

However, "Weight Capacity" is not stated for the KPX250 on either the PSM or Venom sites. Perhaps someone can see KPX 250 "weight capacity" on a bike sticker (e.g. the swing-arm?) or in the manual?

Fuel + lubricants may explain a 20 - 25 pound difference, but there's still a significant 50 pound mystery?


` still puzzled?

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by Discoveror

Following up on your 'hint', MegaDan, I looked up the Templar X "weight capacity", stated as 440 pounds on the PSM site.

However, "Weight Capacity" is not stated for the KPX250 on either the PSM or Venom sites. Perhaps someone can see KPX 250 "weight capacity" on a bike sticker (e.g. the swing-arm?) or in the manual?

Fuel + lubricants may explain a 20 - 25 pound difference, but there's still a significant 50 pound mystery?


` still puzzled?

The KPX is 352 lbs according to specifications. https://www.chinariders.net/showpost...11&postcount=1

[Discoveror]

Honda says their CRF300L weighs 306 pounds (wet vs. dry unspecified).
Kawasaki says their KLX300 weighs 302 pounds, wet.

I've read that manufacturers do cartwheels to shave a few pounds off these things; witness the skinny foot-pegs that every Reviewer chastises as "have to be replaced".

If the Japanese bikes (made in Thailand, these days) are using aluminum frames vs. steel frames on the Chinese bikes, that might explain a good deal of the weight differences???

It seems to me that the difference(s) between heavy/mid/light weight Adventure bikes is in the range of 75 pounds between categories. For example, light Adventure bikes seem to be in the 385 - 400 pounds range (e.g. KTM 390 Adventure, Kawasaki KLE300); mid-weight Adventure bikes seem to be about 450 - 475 pounds (e.g. Tenere 700, KLR650); heavy Adventure bikes seem to weigh north of 500 pounds (e.g. BMW's, Africa Twins etc.). People buy ... or don't buy, based upon these category weights ... in many cases. At 29% of the specified Templar X weight, 75 pounds is S I G N I F I C A N T !

Everything I've read says that the good riders learned on lightweight (usually dirt) bikes ... and advise learning on lightweight bikes, especially if one hopes to ride off-road. Everything I've read declares that "weight matters" - REALLY! Reviews dwell on top-heaviness and 'flickability' adnauseum.


Perhaps some kind soul(s) could verify their bikes' real weight, using the bathroom scale under each wheel ... and adding the two numbers - to get ballpark weights? ... noting whether or not the gas tank was full or empty, of course.

[Thumper]

I owned a V-Strom about 8-10 years ago. Nice road bike ("adventure-sport"). It was over 400 pounds fueled up, and badly top-heavy! I could ride it on a gravel/dirt on forest roads, but these bikes are not made for off road really. They are road bikes. Dual port tires on these things will slide right out on you easily. I did pick it up once. Nearly killed me! No one rides these bikes on a trail!

[Discoveror]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I owned a V-Strom about 8-10 years ago. Nice road bike ("adventure-sport"). It was over 400 pounds fueled up, and badly top-heavy! I could ride it on a gravel/dirt on forest roads, but these bikes are not made for off road really. They are road bikes. Dual port tires on these things will slide right out on you easily. I did pick it up once. Nearly killed me! No one rides these bikes on a trail!

EXACTLY i.e. consistent with what I've read - learning ... which seems to be why everyone says "weight matters".

It intrigued me that KTM started mounting plastic fuel tanks down on the side just behind the front wheel. Of course, KTM tested those fuel tanks - to be sure they wouldn't puncture/leak, when the bike was dropped. Low center of gravity matters, too! In contrast, I've seen numerous Tenere 700 complaints about it's being top-heavy ... as you described with your V-Strom. I've read numerous accounts of baggage (especially mounted up high - over the tail) making bikes noticeably more difficult off-road, too.



And, I'm told that those top-heavy bike are much harder to pick up, too? Of course, I would never think of dropping a nice bike; that's just what I heard! <G>


I remember seeing an Ohio fellow (on YouTube), WELL over 6' tall, who learned on a little Honda Grom. He could toss around that and other light-weight dirt bikes like nobody's business; he had learned to RIDE!
-------

To understand the 75 pound weight difference between a KPX250 and a Templar X 250, I think we, first, need to verify weights ... and, if those weight differences are real/true, try to figure out the source(s) of those weight differences. It is my understanding (correct me, if I'm wrong) that both the KPX250 and Templar X 250 employ steel (rather than aluminum) frames.

[Thumper]

Magnet sticks to the Templar frame, rear seat stays/swingarm. Not the handlebars, triple tree, shock works clamped in place, wheels, foot pegs, controls. The cast wheel hubs are not steel either.

Everything I can touch on the Zongshen engine is aluminum alloy, including the two main halves of the crankcase, the cylinder, and head. And stainless steel bolts so a magnet won't stick to the engine.

No I don't have a scale. I am looking around for a loading dock with a scale.

[Discoveror]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Magnet sticks to the Templar frame, rear seat stays/swingarm. Not the handlebars, triple tree, shock works clamped in place, wheels, foot pegs, controls. The cast wheel hubs are not steel either.

Thumper, would you please try weighing your Templar X, using the bathroom scale - sticking the scale under each wheel, then adding the two weight readings.

I know this method is imprecise; but, I hope it will provide some ballpark verification as to whether or not those Templar X 250's are anywhere near as light as the factory specs claim?

[tknj99]

Phew. glad you didn't ask me to do that as i only have one bath scale and would have had to figure out how to start a GoFundMe campaign to buy the second scale

[Discoveror]

Originally Posted by tknj99

Phew. glad you didn't ask me to do that as i only have one bath scale and would have had to figure out how to start a GoFundMe campaign to buy the second scale

well, ya could stand it up vertically on your one bathroom scale ... and balance it! ... like a true enduro rider!


Seriously though, one can just:

roll one wheel onto the scale, note the reading; then,

roll the other wheel onto the scale, note the reading ... and

add the two weight readings.


Obviously not accurate to the gram, but close enough for an order-of-magnitude perspective.

[Megadan]

Honda lists all weighs on their bikes as "ready to ride" - all fluids and equipment along with a full fuel tank. They state this as much on their website under all bike specs.

The KPX is so heavy because it's a full frame bike made out of steel, and constructed relatively "old school" in contrast to most modern bikes. Considering the KPX is meant to be as much a road bike as a trail bike, the extra few lbs don't bother me. A sub 300lb bike at 70mph being hit.with a cross wind makes for a lot of work lol.

[Discoveror]

` just guessing, here ... the weight that seems most suspect to me is the (distributor sites) claimed 'net' weight of the Templar X 250 because:

That the 'old school' heavy steel frame KPX250 design is maybe 25 pounds heavier than the Honda CRF300L and Kawasaki KLX300 makes sense (to me), knowing how hard those big bike makers work to trim weight.

Similarly, the notion that the Templar X 250 (275 pounds wet, estimated above in my earlier post) could weigh 25 - 30 pounds wet LESS than those Japanese bikes, which are around 305 - 310 pounds, is more suspect to me.


However, I'm not ready to call b.s. on the Templar X 250 'net' weight spec, prior to some (e.g. bathroom scale?) weight verification.

So, if someone would roll their Templar X 250 across a bathroom scale, as described above, ... for helping solve my mystery.