2018 Brozz 250cc

[Its_not_a_honda]

I really don't get that. If he wants to sell something, it is his decision to charge what he wants.

[Its_not_a_honda]

Originally Posted by PeaceSportsAtlanta

Thats a negative on that. He bought a single unit from us from and has them listed for sale. I will ask the owner if we will stop allowing him to buy or force him to raise his prices. Something will absolutely change on this though. No dealer will retail online lower than the importer.

I just can't get over someone saying something like that. Just turned me against even looking at the brozz.

[PeaceSportsAtlanta]

Originally Posted by Its_not_a_honda

I really don't get that. If he wants to sell something, it is his decision to charge what he wants.

Originally Posted by Its_not_a_honda

I just can't get over someone saying something like that. Just turned me against even looking at the brozz.

Not true. Why? We have dealer agreement contracts just like other importers and manufacturers that clearly state you can only advertise product prices a certain percentage below MSRP. If you want to carry our stuff, you must follow the rules. If not, absolutely we can and will end your business with us. Now if advertised for $2k and a guy walks in and the dealer lowers it to $1k just to make a sale, by all means he can sell the thing and lose money if he chooses. But we have to maintain the value of what we carry, including our other products than just the brozz. The brozz is certainly worth more than roughly the cost of a 150cc scooter.

An example is the tanking of scooter prices in Miami recently due to such an influx of volume sellers. I've had dealers show me prices from competitors about brand new $550 50cc scooters. I can assure you there is less than $100 profit on a $550 scooter for the seller which causes some just to stop carrying a brand or even a type of vehicle just based on what they can make.

With all that said, still consider a brozz if it suits your needs. I personally don't know or talk to the guy at APSC and its nothing personal against him. Its just bad for business.

[Its_not_a_honda]

Originally Posted by PeaceSportsAtlanta

Not true. Why? We have dealer agreement contracts just like other importers and manufacturers that clearly state you can only advertise product prices a certain percentage below MSRP. If you want to carry our stuff, you must follow the rules. If not, absolutely we can and will end your business with us. Now if advertised for $2k and a guy walks in and the dealer lowers it to $1k just to make a sale, by all means he can sell the thing and lose money if he chooses. But we have to maintain the value of what we carry, including our other products than just the brozz. The brozz is certainly worth more than roughly the cost of a 150cc scooter.

An example is the tanking of scooter prices in Miami recently due to such an influx of volume sellers. I've had dealers show me prices from competitors about brand new $550 50cc scooters. I can assure you there is less than $100 profit on a $550 scooter for the seller which causes some just to stop carrying a brand or even a type of vehicle just based on what they can make.

With all that said, still consider a brozz if it suits your needs. I personally don't know or talk to the guy at APSC and its nothing personal against him. Its just bad for business.

So if I walk in he can sell it for whatever he wants. If he sells online it is price fixed.

Still don't get it but good luck with that.

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by Its_not_a_honda

So if I walk in he can sell it for whatever he wants. If he sells online it is price fixed.

Still don't get it but good luck with that.

That's what I read too. So technically he could advertise the bike without a price or MSRP of $2000 and have contact for pricing?

[PeaceSportsAtlanta]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

That's what I read too. So technically he could advertise the bike without a price or MSRP of $2000 and have contact for pricing?

A dealer has that option. And he has the option to sell a bike for $5. Were not big brother having camera wherever our vehicles are sold...

BUT

Doesn't mean he should or its what Peace would prefer and has listed in his contract and if we find out he broke the contract, the owner will decide if action will be taken or to let it slide.

[2LZ]

Indeed Peace. My long-term CB dealer couldn't go a specified percentage lower than MSRP as to not kink the other dealers in Nor Cal and steel sales on the long term. He could have "sales" (ex: if he needed to dump some old stock or if he changed products or Christmas or whatever) but not permanently.
This was NOT the case on products he purchased outright, but if he was contracted as a dealer with floor stock, he had to play the game. It's how the manufacturers/importers protect their dealer networks from a rogue dealer....at least that's what he expressed to me.
We had a Honda dealer long ago who totally undercut all other Honda dealers, then went out of business and left the other dealers holding the bag for warranty work on a ton of bikes they didn't sell.

[culcune]

Originally Posted by timcosby

if you look at the pics they show both a hawk and a brozz hard telling what you will get!

That's the problem with some of these dealers...bait and switch, even with the Enforcer vs. the Hawk.

[culcune]

I completely understand what Peace is stating. Look at all the crap some of these dealers put members through, including APSC. Some of these guys got baited and switched and/or waiting forever on the MSO. The Brozz has a cult following, and Peace wants to keep the market going with a quality bike. Hence the $2k MSRP. You know you will be getting a Brozz is the payoff, vs. a Hawk, Storm, Enforcer, etc. Not that those are not good bikes for less $, but it seems that with the bait and switch, more and more people will be sent a Hawk whether they want one or not from some of these dealers.

The price game is another negative for some distributors. What I mean by that is like what 2LZ mentioned as well as dumping overall. It dilutes the value of bikes trying to establish themselves. Back to the Hawk; that is a great bike for the money, and there are plenty of them, but some brands like Bashan are trying to establish themselves through distributors like Peace; Bashan already sends their Storm and Enforcer through another distributor who contribute to the 'dumping' so I kind of wish that Peace could carry all of them rather than just the Brozz (the Shark, a great companion to the Brozz is no longer available) which would help out Bashan to establish themselves at a slightly 'higher' level of bike than the Hawk which has its appeal as a bare-bones kit bike that everyone knows needs some improvements out of the box.

I hope I don't offend Hawk owners, but you guys know you have a fantastic bike for the money which needs a few things; part of the appeal, and actually a bike I was considering when I lived in Arizona, but thanks to the catch-22 of low pay, even a sub-$1500 bike was a 'luxury' and now that I moved to the restrictive state of California (unless I was undocumented, then I would be more equal than equal with very few restrictions), all these bikes are a moot point, LOL

[letsride]

Originally Posted by Cravin01

The Brozz they are showing doesn't have inverted forks.

No they DO NOT! What they did is import left over 2014 Brozz's. The SAME bike I bought a year ago. And I have a sneaky suspicion the MSO will say 2014. The 2015 and up Bashan Brozz has / had the same forks that are on the Storm. Is there anything wrong with that, NOPE! Same forks the Hawk has. Or if you consider the bike may have been in a crate in a container for 4 years. OR maybe Bashan ran out of USD forks and bought up some traditional forks. Who knows. At any rate, I will not be paying 2 grand for one. With all that said, my the 2014 Brozz I gave to my son has been OUTSTANDING so far.

[JerryHawk250]

This is the Brozz everyone is looking for. Notice the USD forks and rear rack?

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by culcune

which would help out Bashan to establish themselves at a slightly 'higher' level of bike than the Hawk which has its appeal as a bare-bones kit bike that everyone knows needs some improvements out of the box.

I hope I don't offend Hawk owners, but you guys know you have a fantastic bike for the money which needs a few things; part of the appeal, and actually a bike I was considering when I lived in Arizona, but thanks to the catch-22 of low pay, even a sub-$1500 bike was a 'luxury' and now that I moved to the restrictive state of California (unless I was undocumented, then I would be more equal than equal with very few restrictions), all these bikes are a moot point, LOL

The funny thing is, the Bashan bikes of late have been proving to have just as many flaws, and even similar flaws, as the Hawk. I think that is part of the problem with the Bashan bikes catching on. The Hawks seem to have more issues, but you also need to remember, there are a LOT of Hawks here compared to all of the others. When you have a sample size of 20 to 1, you will see more issues of one compared to the others. It's a strength in numbers things.

Yes, they come with slightly better carb tuning, and a carb that actually can be tuned more easily (no goofy pilot jet like the Hawk). Yes, they come with better out of the box gearing - but new sprockets are $30... not a big selling point. The chains are the same quality, so that's a wash. The tubes - an unknown, but let us assume they are a better quality tube than the Hawk for arguments sake. Still 20-40 bucks for aftermarket tubes and you end up with something better than either stock tubes.

Chassis and brake wise - kind of a moot argument since it's all the same quality.

Not saying the Bashan's aren't better, but they aren't THAT much better, and not really any better in the ways that count.

The Bashan bikes only have one big advantage over the Hawks, and that is 49 state legality for not much more money (Hawk vs. Enforcer since it is apples to apples.) Pick what you like, fix what needs fixing because they are all going to have issues, and roll with it.

[china007]

The storm also has the counter balance. This topic has made for an interesting discussion. I really enjoy my Storm and the Enforcer was great also. We are finally getting some great sunny weather so I will enjoy some ride time...

[culcune]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Not saying the Bashan's aren't better, but they aren't THAT much better, and not really any better in the ways that count.

When I was in Yuma, I was considering a Hawk over the Bashans because I actually like the idea of a 'kit bike' in a box. I think that Bashan should have been leaning to setting up dealers of fully-built bikes rather than compete for Hawk customers in the mail-order realm. Or at least try something like CSC where they send fully assembled, road-ready bikes. Heck, I wouldn't mind spending TT250 money for a Brozz sent by CSC!! As it stands right now, unless I have a bike sent to my home in Yuma and figure out the loophole of getting it into California (6 months of ownership I believe), I am relegated to the TT250 if I want an air-cooled, simple enduro/dual-sport bike.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by china007

The storm also has the counter balance. This topic has made for an interesting discussion. I really enjoy my Storm and the Enforcer was great also. We are finally getting some great sunny weather so I will enjoy some ride time...

Thr counterbalanced engine isn't much of a plus in my eyes. The standard motor isnt that bad with vibes to begin with. Just my oen opinion anyway. Counterbalancers mean more moving parts, which is more things to go wrong.