new hawk 250 issues - Page 2

**JerryHawk250** · 11-02-2017, 11:30 AM

CSC has some great Tutorials on the TT250 which is very similar to the Hawk 250. Here's a link to there site. http://www.cscmotorcycles.com/TT250-Tutorials-s/283.htm FYI the valve adjustment can be done without removing the tank.

Weldangrind · 11-02-2017, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehawk

...just got stationed back in the good ol USA...

Welcome! Military, I presume; if so, thanks for your service.

To put a finer point on the oil question, the dipstick is indeed incorrect. Use the sight glass only.

I encourage you to follow the guidance that these fine gentlemen have provided.

Ariel Red Hunter · 11-02-2017, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

Middle of the sight glass while it is not running.

Also, I didn't forget the valve lash. I just wanted to give somebody else a chance to throw forth some knowledge... I swear!

As far as the valve lash. Set it now. That waiting until break in is a bad idea. Why? Because as the engine breaks in the valve stems stretch a bit, so that means less clearance. Your red exhaust pipe and idle/running issues are likely being caused by one or both valves not seating fully.

Set the lash on the loose side, sau .004 inch. ntake and exhaust, and after a couple hundred miles check the lash. Adjust if needed, then go another couple hundred and check it again. At that point you can set the lash a bit tighter, minimum is .002inch. I have mine set at .002 intake and .003 exhaust currently. In the hotter months I go to .003 intake and .004 exhaust

The other reason to do the valve clearances right away has to do with the exhaust valve and seat. The exhaust valve is heated by a wind of 700 degrees on its way out of the cylinder. Its major cooling is the period it is in firm contact with the valve seat. That is why it is imperitive to adjust the valves right away. .....ARH

thehawk · 11-02-2017, 09:50 PM

Thank you all for your information. I didn't get off work until late tonight so didn't get much done, but I did purchase a feeler gauge so I can ASAP, and I did correct the oil level, and took another look at the bike. I also rode it up and down the street once just because I soooo wanted to ride it (I'm sure you understand).
I noticed a tick,tick,tick and so started looking the bike over and found 2 more odd things. on the front forks, opposite side of the break there is an oil leak. It looks like its coming from the speedometer?? Does this even have oil?
The other thing I noticed, is that the rear wheel is crooked. Not by a whole lot, but it is. The seal on one side of the axel is protruding and not flush, the other side is sunken in. Both side of the rim are the same. And it rotates with the wheel. I think the one protruding seal side hits the frame a little and that's the tick as it rotates. Also the bottom chain guard is bent onto the chain eating it away (probably an easy fix of bending it out so long as it don't break, but I wonder how on earth it ended up like this).

pistolclass · 11-02-2017, 10:16 PM

For adjusting the carb folks have gone a couple of ways. Some crack open the tamper proof screws and shim needles and rejet. Other (myself included) buy a $34 Mukini (it is a total fake but works great) from Ebay and a $12 jet kit and tinker from there. Either way is fine.

The $34 one I bought has groves on the needle so you don't need to shim you just adjust the needle by changing a little washer thingy's position on the needle.

Buying it was a little bit of a hedge for me because if I totally boogered up the adjustment on the replacement I could always just put the stock one back in.

Without a doubt the most noticeable changes were the valve adjustment and the new/rejetted carb for me. I have a 110 main and the stock 20 pilot in it with the needle set at the lowest (richest) position. I'm 2 turns out on the mixture screw. I realize that my pilot is still a little lean but I'm making up for it with the mixture screw. It is not the textbook way to do it, but my bike really runs good and I don't want to mess with it running so well. BTW I'm completely stock on the Airbox and exhaust. Once you start openning those up you will need more fuel.

The valve adjustment really helped the Hawk start up quickly. I had to crank it over longer before it would run, but once the valves are set properly it started much quicker.

**JerryHawk250** · 11-02-2017, 10:21 PM

You will have to post a few pictures of the issues so we can help. Sounds like the dealer just through it together and didn't really assemble it. The oil could be from the fork itself. Either the screw on the bottom or from a fork seal. If the seal leaks usually you can pump them a few times and will seat the seals.

timcosby · 11-02-2017, 10:49 PM

1/2 way on the sight glass and thats not super critical anything from 1/4 to 3/4 will work

pete · 11-03-2017, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehawk

Silly question, the glowing red exhaust pipe off the header, if I let it run too long is that going to melt or explode?

it is not going to melt or go bang...
this quite common with stainless steel exhaust pipes
Stainless has a lower melting point than steel...
and stainless pipes tend to be thinner as stanless is
more exspensive than steel..
So thin stainless will glow red if the bike is left running
while standing still with no air flow over the pipe..
but i'm not saying your carb is not on the lean side
as that would just compound the glowing exhaust issue..

by the way both my yamaha's will make there pipes glow
if left to idle for to long...

Megadan · 11-03-2017, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehawk

Thank you all for your information. I didn't get off work until late tonight so didn't get much done, but I did purchase a feeler gauge so I can ASAP, and I did correct the oil level, and took another look at the bike. I also rode it up and down the street once just because I soooo wanted to ride it (I'm sure you understand).
I noticed a tick,tick,tick and so started looking the bike over and found 2 more odd things. on the front forks, opposite side of the break there is an oil leak. It looks like its coming from the speedometer?? Does this even have oil?
The other thing I noticed, is that the rear wheel is crooked. Not by a whole lot, but it is. The seal on one side of the axel is protruding and not flush, the other side is sunken in. Both side of the rim are the same. And it rotates with the wheel. I think the one protruding seal side hits the frame a little and that's the tick as it rotates. Also the bottom chain guard is bent onto the chain eating it away (probably an easy fix of bending it out so long as it don't break, but I wonder how on earth it ended up like this).

Front Fork situation - I agree with Jerry, both on the pictures and other advice. Most "Assembly" work is done by whomever was free to slap it together. It is very likely that you will have to take the bike apart to do things correctly as well as fix many of the little problems commonly found by those of us who assembled the bike ourselves. The nice thing is, these bikes are really simple to take apart, so I wouldn't sweat that too much.

The rear wheel seal being seated poorly is something I ran into on my bike when I first uncrated it. I managed to pop both seals out and save them, but if you do need new seals you can either try to file a warranty claim or pick up some new seals. This requires taking the rear wheel off. Then again, if that wheel seal is hitting the frame, then something is very wrong. Much like the fork issue, a couple of good clear up close pictures would say 1000 words.

Take that rear wheel off, and I highly recommend checking for/doing 2 things.
1. Check the rear wheel bearings. Myself and others had poorly installed rear wheel bearings. If you cannot turn those bearings with your finger while they are installed in the wheel, then I suggest replacing them with a good quality pair of bearings. SKF, Nachi, or All Balls Racing. They aren't super expensive, ranging from 5 to 10 bucks a piece. I tried to reseat mine in the hopes of saving them, but the ball bearing cages of mine were bent by the factory installation, and caused them to fail within 800 miles.

2. Check the rear sprocket. First, loosen, and then re-tighten the sprocket nuts. Torque them back down in a diagonal pattern (like a wheel) to around 30-35lb-ft. Next, check for play in the sprocket. If that sprocket wiggles around between the snap ring that retains it, and the hub behind it, then I have a post on here covering this issue. To summarize that post here, I put very small, thin, wave washers on the back side of the sprocket between it and the face of the studs. With the wave washers in place, secure the nuts again with a dab of blue loctite on each.

Here is the previously mentioned Post. http://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=19265

Honestly, at this point I would highly recommend that you go through your bike and check everything. Pick yourself of a small bottle of Loctite 242 or 243 (blue, easily found at parts stores). Go over every bolt on this bike, put a dab of loctite on them, and tighten down again. I also recommend removing the rear swing arm when you take the wheel off and greasing not only the bolt that goes through it, but get some grease inside the pivots of said swing arm. This will extend the life of those bushings quite a bit. Don't forget to loctite the rear shock nuts and bolts when putting them back on.

Also, search about chain guide fixes. This is another notorious little issue for most owners, and easily solved.

I know this might be annoying, or even a little frustrating. You had somebody else assemble it, so you would think they did all of this for you, but the reality is they usually slap them together in a few hours and call them good to go.

By comparison, I spent no less than 12 hours putting my bike together. I tore it down to frame and engine. Greased all of the axles, pivot points, and even the head stock bearings. I Drained, flushed, and re-filled the front forks with fork oil, flushed and bled the front and rear brakes with new brake fluid, check all of my wheel bearings - correcting the rear. Set up the carb., put antiseize on my exhaust studs and installed them back into the head, etc. I even re-routed the wiring harness in a few places, including the rear brake switch wires to keep them from melting from the exhaust, put dielectric grease on most of the electrical connectors to try and seal out water, and sprayed my battery terminal and ground strap terminals with anti-corrosion spray. Then when I re-assembled it, I attacked every bolt with Loctite. Especially critical fasteners like brake caliper mounting bolts, rear sprocket nuts and the shock bolts (as previously mentioned) and even the engine mount bolts. I also took both wheels and checked them for trueness and then tightened the spokes - something I HIGHLY recommend doing, as all of mine were not tightened down very well.

It's a lot of work, but trust me when I say that if you spend this time and effort now going over everything, you will not only save yourself headaches down the road, but also literally save yourself from a potential disaster. There is a reason these bikes are cheap. While they are generally decent out of the crate, they really require this kind of attention to be GOOD.

thehawk · 11-03-2017, 06:26 AM

Good morning, you all are awesome to take the time to help out.

The rear wheel is hard to take pictures that get what I am talking about, but it seems you already understand which is a sigh of relief because I didn't understand how on earth to describe it. As for the ticking, I couldn't see where it was hitting, but did notice marks on the side of the wheel and so am wondering. Of course I guess it could have been the chain rubbing, but the chain seems to rub uniformly so maybe not?

Please take a look at the attached pictures and maybe they can tell you more than I could explain.

I will check the sprocket and search for chain guide fixes when I get home from work tonight.

**JerryHawk250** · 11-03-2017, 07:58 AM

Seals are defiantly in crooked. The chain guard mount just needs to be bent back in place. Follow the advise of Megadan, This is why I got mine unassembled so I could go through everything as I put it together. One word of advise on the stock chain. Take it off and clean it then soak it in a synthetic gear oil. Lots on here claim these chains are junk. But there not. The manufacture use very littler grease and lubricant. I have over 2000 miles on the stock chain with very little stretch. Still within spec. As Megadan stated, pull apart and grease axles and swing arm bolt. Me personally I would request a refund on the so called assembly. When I bought my bike it came with free assembly and I told them not to assemble it. It would of only delayed the shipment and I didn't want to wait. lol

Megadan · 11-03-2017, 04:53 PM

As far as that lower chain guard goes, I agree with Jerry. The mount tabs simply look bent. Likely they got bent inward during shipping or assembly, but you can gently bend those back straight. That should get the guard off of the chain.

The wheel seals look exactly like mine did. If you take the wheel off, you can use a pair of flathead screwdrivers and patiently try to push them out from the inside. Put the head through the hole of the seal and try to get it under the back side of the seal edge and pry up. At minuum you can work the seals until they are even in their respective holes.

As far as hitting the frame, it doesn't look like it to me, but the right side definitely looks like it gets close to the brake caliper bracket/axle spacer. This side has less room than the left side with the sprocket by nature, so it's not a bit deal.

timcosby · 11-03-2017, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

Seals are defiantly in crooked. The chain guard mount just needs to be bent back in place. Follow the advise of Megadan, This is why I got mine unassembled so I could go through everything as I put it together. One of advise on the stock chain. Take it off and clean it the soak it in a synthetic gear oil. Lots on here claim these chains are junk. But there not. The manufacture use very littler grease and lubricant. I have over 2000 miles on the stock chain with very little stretch. Still within spec. As Megadan stated, pull apart and grease axles and swing arm bolt. Me personally I would request a refund on the so called assembly. When I bought my bike it came with free assembly and I told them not to assemble it. It would of only delayed the shipment and I didn't want to wait. lol

that pic of the chain confirms what we suspected that the chains were coming without a smidgen of any lubricant so they got hot and stretched from friction.

Ariel Red Hunter · 11-03-2017, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timcosby

that pic of the chain confirms what we suspected that the chains were coming without a smidgen of any lubricant so they got hot and stretched from friction.

You are absolutly correct. That photo explains all the chain trouble people have had with their stock chains from the git go of Hawk distribution. Chains don't really stretch. They have premature wear on the rollers and pins caused by no/poor lubrication. It is up to the individual whether to use heavy gear oil (240 weight Model A Ford steering box oil is easy to get), or the hot wax with graphite stirred in routine. Either will work...ARH

thehawk · 11-04-2017, 12:40 PM

Thanks for all the information guys, it looks like I got my work cut out for me. To be honest, this could be fun if I had a garage to do it in (I will in 2 weeks, I'm so excited). But not today, today is my sons birthday so I got to spend some time with him. I'll start looking into getting the parts and figuring out how to remove the wheel and chain tomorrow.

I did bend back the chain guard, and sprayed a healthy coat of chain greese on the chain. After which I couldn't help myself but took it for a ride up and down the street yesterday (put like 1 mile on the bike during 3/4 trips to the corner of the street and back).

I will take your advise (that's the reason I was asking) and will either dip the chain into oil if I can find some, or purchase a new chain if the price is negligibly different. Just sprayed it with oil now because I had already bought some and have not taken the wheel off yet.

I did notice two more things, the idle is sporadic, it revs high and then the next time you come to a pause from running a little it almost dies without any consistency after running for a while and being warmed up. during cold it is hard to keep running, but then afterwards when it is warmed it either revs really high, or really low. giving it extra gas to see if the idle will set at a more neutral place does nothing. but it you ride it for a minute and come back it will be the opposite most likely, then next time you move it and come back it will be the opposite side, sometimes (like once) it idled where I thought it should after moving it. Turning the idle screw on the carbarator will adjust it, but that does not help if the next time it is idling at opposite because now it is worse on the opposite end.

The front tire originally it had oil under the speedometer sensor next to the wheel. I wondered where it was from but wiped it off because surely the sensor doesn't have oil in it right?? but then when checking it again it I found more. It is dark brown oil (not grease) and looks like it is coming from the open space right next to the speedometer sensor (opposite the front brake) where I would imagine the front wheel bearings are located inside. Its a space between the tire and the axel. I will get pictures and upload them.
Also, I checked the rear sprocket, you are correct, it wiggles. Not really really loose, but it does. the odd thing about that is that the screws seem to wiggle with it too.
I also checked the chain guide, it is rubber and seems to be in the place it is supposed to be. BUT, the chain rides directly on top of it. I can see how this may not last long as I imagine that chain would eat up that guide pretty quickly once the bike is actually being used. I will get pictures for you and post them.
I hope you all are having a great weekend!!

11-02-2017, 11:30 AM	#16
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,553	CSC has some great Tutorials on the TT250 which is very similar to the Hawk 250. Here's a link to there site. http://www.cscmotorcycles.com/TT250-Tutorials-s/283.htm FYI the valve adjustment can be done without removing the tank. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
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11-02-2017, 10:16 PM	#20
pistolclass Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: connecticut Posts: 978	For adjusting the carb folks have gone a couple of ways. Some crack open the tamper proof screws and shim needles and rejet. Other (myself included) buy a $34 Mukini (it is a total fake but works great) from Ebay and a $12 jet kit and tinker from there. Either way is fine. The $34 one I bought has groves on the needle so you don't need to shim you just adjust the needle by changing a little washer thingy's position on the needle. Buying it was a little bit of a hedge for me because if I totally boogered up the adjustment on the replacement I could always just put the stock one back in. Without a doubt the most noticeable changes were the valve adjustment and the new/rejetted carb for me. I have a 110 main and the stock 20 pilot in it with the needle set at the lowest (richest) position. I'm 2 turns out on the mixture screw. I realize that my pilot is still a little lean but I'm making up for it with the mixture screw. It is not the textbook way to do it, but my bike really runs good and I don't want to mess with it running so well. BTW I'm completely stock on the Airbox and exhaust. Once you start openning those up you will need more fuel. The valve adjustment really helped the Hawk start up quickly. I had to crank it over longer before it would run, but once the valves are set properly it started much quicker. Last edited by pistolclass; 11-02-2017 at 10:20 PM. Reason: beecuzz Im huuked on fonicks.
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11-02-2017, 10:21 PM	#21
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,553	You will have to post a few pictures of the issues so we can help. Sounds like the dealer just through it together and didn't really assemble it. The oil could be from the fork itself. Either the screw on the bottom or from a fork seal. If the seal leaks usually you can pump them a few times and will seat the seals. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
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11-02-2017, 10:49 PM	#22
timcosby Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: robertsdale alabama usa Posts: 1,007	1/2 way on the sight glass and thats not super critical anything from 1/4 to 3/4 will work __________________ 1991 harley heritage softail classic 2016 hawk kaw h1 400 tripple 13' long chopper in progress 2009 johnny pag bar hog 2004 hd electra glide ultra classic shriner edition 1997 harley davidson 1200 sportster 1972 harley davidson amf sx250
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11-03-2017, 07:58 AM	#26
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,553	Seals are defiantly in crooked. The chain guard mount just needs to be bent back in place. Follow the advise of Megadan, This is why I got mine unassembled so I could go through everything as I put it together. One word of advise on the stock chain. Take it off and clean it then soak it in a synthetic gear oil. Lots on here claim these chains are junk. But there not. The manufacture use very littler grease and lubricant. I have over 2000 miles on the stock chain with very little stretch. Still within spec. As Megadan stated, pull apart and grease axles and swing arm bolt. Me personally I would request a refund on the so called assembly. When I bought my bike it came with free assembly and I told them not to assemble it. It would of only delayed the shipment and I didn't want to wait. lol __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel Last edited by JerryHawk250; 11-03-2017 at 07:49 PM.
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11-02-2017, 09:50 PM	#19
thehawk Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 62	Thank you all for your information. I didn't get off work until late tonight so didn't get much done, but I did purchase a feeler gauge so I can ASAP, and I did correct the oil level, and took another look at the bike. I also rode it up and down the street once just because I soooo wanted to ride it (I'm sure you understand). I noticed a tick,tick,tick and so started looking the bike over and found 2 more odd things. on the front forks, opposite side of the break there is an oil leak. It looks like its coming from the speedometer?? Does this even have oil? The other thing I noticed, is that the rear wheel is crooked. Not by a whole lot, but it is. The seal on one side of the axel is protruding and not flush, the other side is sunken in. Both side of the rim are the same. And it rotates with the wheel. I think the one protruding seal side hits the frame a little and that's the tick as it rotates. Also the bottom chain guard is bent onto the chain eating it away (probably an easy fix of bending it out so long as it don't break, but I wonder how on earth it ended up like this).
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11-03-2017, 04:53 PM	#27
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 7,986	As far as that lower chain guard goes, I agree with Jerry. The mount tabs simply look bent. Likely they got bent inward during shipping or assembly, but you can gently bend those back straight. That should get the guard off of the chain. The wheel seals look exactly like mine did. If you take the wheel off, you can use a pair of flathead screwdrivers and patiently try to push them out from the inside. Put the head through the hole of the seal and try to get it under the back side of the seal edge and pry up. At minuum you can work the seals until they are even in their respective holes. As far as hitting the frame, it doesn't look like it to me, but the right side definitely looks like it gets close to the brake caliper bracket/axle spacer. This side has less room than the left side with the sprocket by nature, so it's not a bit deal. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
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11-04-2017, 12:40 PM	#30
thehawk Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 62	Thanks for all the information guys, it looks like I got my work cut out for me. To be honest, this could be fun if I had a garage to do it in (I will in 2 weeks, I'm so excited). But not today, today is my sons birthday so I got to spend some time with him. I'll start looking into getting the parts and figuring out how to remove the wheel and chain tomorrow. I did bend back the chain guard, and sprayed a healthy coat of chain greese on the chain. After which I couldn't help myself but took it for a ride up and down the street yesterday (put like 1 mile on the bike during 3/4 trips to the corner of the street and back). I will take your advise (that's the reason I was asking) and will either dip the chain into oil if I can find some, or purchase a new chain if the price is negligibly different. Just sprayed it with oil now because I had already bought some and have not taken the wheel off yet. I did notice two more things, the idle is sporadic, it revs high and then the next time you come to a pause from running a little it almost dies without any consistency after running for a while and being warmed up. during cold it is hard to keep running, but then afterwards when it is warmed it either revs really high, or really low. giving it extra gas to see if the idle will set at a more neutral place does nothing. but it you ride it for a minute and come back it will be the opposite most likely, then next time you move it and come back it will be the opposite side, sometimes (like once) it idled where I thought it should after moving it. Turning the idle screw on the carbarator will adjust it, but that does not help if the next time it is idling at opposite because now it is worse on the opposite end. The front tire originally it had oil under the speedometer sensor next to the wheel. I wondered where it was from but wiped it off because surely the sensor doesn't have oil in it right?? but then when checking it again it I found more. It is dark brown oil (not grease) and looks like it is coming from the open space right next to the speedometer sensor (opposite the front brake) where I would imagine the front wheel bearings are located inside. Its a space between the tire and the axel. I will get pictures and upload them. Also, I checked the rear sprocket, you are correct, it wiggles. Not really really loose, but it does. the odd thing about that is that the screws seem to wiggle with it too. I also checked the chain guide, it is rubber and seems to be in the place it is supposed to be. BUT, the chain rides directly on top of it. I can see how this may not last long as I imagine that chain would eat up that guide pretty quickly once the bike is actually being used. I will get pictures for you and post them. I hope you all are having a great weekend!!
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