New member looking at 2020 Hawk 250 DLX with EFI

[posplayr]

I just joined after discovering the Hawk DLX EFI. have not bought yet but exploring how to do EFI tuning after porting and other modifications.

I'm also looking for the Hawk to do some desert camping trail riding with a light full-sized bike. My plan is to carry it on the back of my Ford E-350 van that I'm converting to a camper van.

After playing/spending a bunch of money on a $1500 83 GS 1100ED Suzuki restro mod, I'm happy to report I'm still alive but would like a slower smaller bike; just hope it is not gutless

I can not see spending $6K plus for that for a name brand bike of $3500+ for a quality EMTB. Not looking for anything for riding much on the street other than as necessary.

I have been reading about the significant gains that can be obtained with

• some porting
• raising the CR to 10:1
• 4 degree advance

I emailed Cory at LFR Powersport Performance & Repair last night and he suggested the following mods for a carbureted Hawk 250.

>>>If you decide to go with the Carb Model, I think you will be happiest with
a Nibbi Carb, Intake, Single Layer Head Gasket, and a Trail Port.

So the question in my mind is can the Hawk DLX EFI be modified relatively easily to accommodate the engine mods? I'm pretty much set against changing all the OEM wiring to put in a new controller unless the stock setup can't be modified in which case I could revert back to a carbureted bike.

Anyway back to EFI. Another member just joined recently Gimpster who has set up a website dedicated to the Hawk DLX. He seems to be leading the charge on Hawk DLX EFI.

https://www.ecimulti.org/hawk250/

I much appreciate him chasing down the part numbers and sources for most of the DLX EFI components. I also he is debating between the Delphi MT5 and other Speeduino ECU's. I hope to pick his brain as much as he will allow.

Gimpster>>>>I am still considering converting the bike over to using a Speeduino though vs. the Delphi MT05.2 for more control, and it should be somewhat trivial to do.

BTW I'm also a EE with some Arduino/ARM microcontroller design experience. never actually worked on an EFI system, but familiar with the tech.

[tknj99]

As was recommended to me, i will also recommend to you: Joe Henner, unbeatable pricing for port/polish work and very well known. He's working on mine as i type this and look forward to writing a positive review not only on the experience but on the work and requisite gains.

[posplayr]

Thanks, tknj99, I'm just looking to get some confirmation of being able to tune the EFI on the DLX before pulling the trigger.

[Gimpster]

First of all, welcome ... not that I've been registered a long time. I've used this site as a resource for years though, back when I had a TaoTao Hellcat. Finally just had a reason to post and share some stuff.

I figured I'd reply to you here re: why I might go Speeduino for all to see. It really has no bearing on the Delphi ECU efforts. I just wanted to see what was possible with the Delphi ECU before going off half cocked.

Can the Delphi ECU run your bike? The answer is a resounding yes, the issue (in my eyes, and this is common in ECU tuning) is the tools and availability defining the calibration. Ultimately the Delphi ECU is like any other computer, its only as good as the software on it and supporting it.

BitEdit is a big unknown right now to me, since nobody I've asked (I am on a BitEdit group on Facebook) has been willing to show me any available maps on the Hawk's bin. I emailed BitEdit and their response simply was '"we support this bin" and wouldn't give me a map list. It's not a ton of money, but I find it obnoxious to have to buy a physical dongle, a license AND the app phones home (internet required) without even knowing what I can / can't do with it.

The folks on the Facebook group, rightly to be fair, realized I kinda know what I'm doing and don't want to "spill the beans" or watch me create my own calibration definitions with TunerPro. I get it, whatever... the commercial tuning world is very fickle in that way. From what I can tell, MT05.x tuning is quite prevalent in the developing world where you find more bikes using this ECU.

The other huge factor, that honestly I was reminded of when I dumped the .bin on my bike, is this thing operated at 10400 baud which is....... not optimal in the year 2020. Imagine trying to do a dyno session and waiting 10-15 minutes for every write?

Going to a Speeduino (or even say a MicroSquirt based ECU) would make live tuning possible, updates in seconds, bluetooth... and on and on. I would likely also convert the bike to some sort of modern stick coil too at the same time.

The hard parts all been done for EFI on the bike (fuel system specifically), so I feel like I don't have much to lose.

If you are curious, I am specifically consdiering putting on a "NO2C" variant of Speeduno:

https://wtmtronics.com/product/no2c-v0-2-x/

Its just a small shield that has 2 injector and 2 ignition output, .. super simple. I have used TunerStudio on a number of project with MegaSquirt, so for me.. the learning curve is nil.

In short: I am concerned about throwing money at a (literal in this case) black box.

[TxTaoRider]

Jim, is that you from Gsresources?
This is TxGsrider. I've still got some of your parts on my gs.
I bought one of these little bikes a few months ago when I got the itch to do some cheap adventure/trail riding.
Welcome to the site!

[Gimpster]

Man, you guys are going to make me want to dust off the GPz1100... can't handle all this GS1100 reunion!

[posplayr]

Originally Posted by TxTaoRider

Jim, is that you from Gsresources?
This is TxGsrider. I've still got some of your parts on my gs.
I bought one of these little bikes a few months ago when I got the itch to do some cheap adventure/trail riding.
Welcome to the site!

Yea it's me. I was looking for an E MTB but for $3500 I would rather have a gas motor at 1/2 the price .

This video doesn't make the DLX seem toooo bad but adding 25% power with some porting would really help.



Which bike do you have?

The other thing is i got rid of my O2 sensor data logger setup for a song. With modern EFI it all comes built it. So i did not really want to go back to jetting.

I spoke to Bill (Chef1366) yesterday, he wants to go camping also LOL. he has an 1150 daily rider and a Bandit but sounds interested in a small trail bike as well.

I almost pulled the trigger on Sunday for a KLR650 for $2500 but it was sold. I'm glad based on reviews it is also slow andbut weighs #433 wet (UGH)

[posplayr]

Originally Posted by Gimpster

The hard parts all been done for EFI on the bike (fuel system specifically), so I feel like I don't have much to lose.

If you are curious, I am specifically consdiering putting on a "NO2C" variant of Speeduno:

https://wtmtronics.com/product/no2c-v0-2-x/

Its just a small shield that has 2 injector and 2 ignition output, .. super simple. I have used TunerStudio on a number of project with MegaSquirt, so for me.. the learning curve is nil.

In short: I am concerned about throwing money at a (literal in this case) black box.

After spending the day investigating this, the "black box" maybe only 1/2 the problem. I'm convinced, if you can do a direct wire up the pin for the pin at the connector then that is much simpler and looks like only blue sky.

The good news is that with an Arduino and source code you can fix the problem you were mentioning earlier like cold start surge or whatever.

I have an Arduino extension for Visual Studio so I just do all my code development there. Don't need an embedded compiler like Rowley Crossworks (which I already have for $1500).

And then I guess just use the Tuner for table development.

[posplayr]

Originally Posted by Gimpster

Man, you guys are going to make me want to dust off the GPz1100... can't handle all this GS1100 reunion!

Since you mentioned it I put my 1100 ED into my signature (all loaded up)

[posplayr]

Here is a better picture in final form

https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...866#post938866

[Megadan]

I will just make this observation. EFI is great for several reasons, I have nothing against it at all, and I can't wait to see what tuning solutions get figured out for it.

That said, when it comes to a "roughing it" kind of bike, especially when you are getting far away from society, it's hard to beat a simple carbureted motorcycle. Once you have the jetting dialed in, it's usually not that much work to make any adjustments that may be needed. I personally don't find myself rejetting until the atmospheric changes are rather significant (40-50 degree temp change, or over 5000ft in elevation). Plus, there is a lot less in the way of electronics to go wrong, and the AC CDI of the standard Hawk means you can run it with no battery if needed. The only thing the standard Hawk could really use is the forks from the DLX, but I have my standard forks working a treat with the fork valves and a brace.

One place where EFI would really shine though would be colder temps (40 degrees and lower). No need for fiddling with choke/enrichment, no fluctating running conditions as the engine swings through a wider operating temp range during low speed or sitting (Traffic) and then blasting along at highway speeds. Plus, if you aren't a dedicated tinkerer like many of us carby guys are, EFI is really nice for the "Just start it and go" aspect, and the overall better fuel economy. I have to give it the credit where it is due.

[TxTaoRider]

Originally Posted by posplayr

Yea it's me. I was looking for an E MTB but for $3500 I would rather have a gas motor at 1/2 the price .

This video doesn't make the DLX seem toooo bad but adding 25% power with some porting would really help.



Which bike do you have?

The other thing is i got rid of my O2 sensor data logger setup for a song. With modern EFI it all comes built it. So i did not really want to go back to jetting.

I spoke to Bill (Chef1366) yesterday, he wants to go camping also LOL. he has an 1150 daily rider and a Bandit but sounds interested in a small trail bike as well.

I almost pulled the trigger on Sunday for a KLR650 for $2500 but it was sold. I'm glad based on reviews it is also slow andbut weighs #433 wet (UGH)

I stuck with the carbureted tao tbr7. I knew I'd be changing exhaust and probably headwork and didn't know the limitations of the efi on the FI bikes.

I did weld up a bung on my exhaust for the wideband, and if you decide to go with a carb and use the wideband, use a long bung or a spacer. If you don't you'll find the o2 sensor becomes a very significant blockage in the tiny headpipe on these bikes and about 5000 rpm the readings show rich and gets worse fast (and the bike falls off fast). If you space it out some the readings come back in line.

I also liked the simplicity of the carbed bikes. I didn't need fuel pump issues or sketchy electrical gremlins messing up my rides. And besides it takes about 5 minutes, a 10mm wrench, and a couple screwdrivers to change or adjust the jetting.

Guys, if Posplayr becomes part of this group he will become the electrical guru here and have us fixing issues we don't even know we have yet. Lol! His knowledge of electrical systems will be a real benefit to everyone.

[Gimpster]

The trail bike being carb is a valid concern some folks have brought up. Judging from the picture of your Suzuki (which looks like an amazing build!) and the back/forth we've had about EFI... you don't strike me as someone who'd just buy this and hope for the best on the trail.

I only locally trail ride (mostly old rail, power line trails.. etc), and I felt it important to install a digital volt meter on my bike and replace the battery with a quality AGM battery. I mean with a high pressure fuel system, if the charging system takes a crap or your battery is damaged/dies... good luck to you. With the voltmeter, at least I can at least start heading back out of the bush if I see the charging system go south.

If I was going to get SERIOUS about trail riding this in the deep bush, I'd likely also swap the fuel pump out for something not from Alibaba. The pump is pretty standard early form factor on a lot of bikes, so putting like a genuine Honda or Suzuki part would make me feel a whole lot better. There have already been a couple people with failed pumps on the Facebook group.

I figure if I can at least bring some of the components up in quality, these are the same issues you'd have on any other EFI dualsport from Japan.

[posplayr]

Originally Posted by Megadan

I will just make this observation. EFI is great for several reasons, I have nothing against it at all, and I can't wait to see what tuning solutions get figured out for it.

I can't argue with anything you are saying, it is more a matter of preference.

I have a friend here in Tucson that told me he was getting rid of all his carburated bikes because with the heat, carb bowls dry out quickly and he gets plugged jets requiring pulling carbs.

With EFI the higher pressure blows out the jest if/when the crabs dry out.

This is certainly what was going on with my GS1100ED. On the coast in 70-80 degree weather, this is really not a problem. 100-115 well to is a problem.

As far as DLX USD forks. That is a major plus. I don't know if they have cartridge valving, but I suspect they will always be a bit better than those spindly RSU shocks.

[posplayr]

Originally Posted by TxTaoRider

I stuck with the carbureted tao tbr7. I knew I'd be changing exhaust and probably headwork and didn't know the limitations of the efi on the FI bikes.

I did weld up a bung on my exhaust for the wideband, and if you decide to go with a carb and use the wideband, use a long bung or a spacer. If you don't you'll find the o2 sensor becomes a very significant blockage in the tiny headpipe on these bikes and about 5000 rpm the readings show rich and gets worse fast (and the bike falls off fast). If you space it out some the readings come back in line.

I also liked the simplicity of the carbed bikes. I didn't need fuel pump issues or sketchy electrical gremlins messing up my rides. And besides it takes about 5 minutes, a 10mm wrench, and a couple screwdrivers to change or adjust the jetting.

Guys, if Posplayr becomes part of this group he will become the electrical guru here and have us fixing issues we don't even know we have yet. Lol! His knowledge of electrical systems will be a real benefit to everyone.

With the EFI there is no need for data logging and WBO2, but obviously, this is still a work in progress.

I see the tao tbr7 has the smaller wheels whereas the Hawk is 21/18 in. I'm not looking for a big bike, but it needs to fit so I'm probably going to find a local dealer that has some of these bikes so I can just sit on one.

The biggest problem with the GS's obviously is the charging and just being old. I wonder if these newer bikes are using Series R/R's? Some of the CDC RS3 and RS4 bikes claim 300 watts.