KLR650 budget competitor

[Tbone3366]

so im looking at using the rotating assembly for a ford 240 i6 to make a single cyl 661cc or a 300 to make an 880? ish cc engine and machine a gear box, i want to shoot for a 3500 buck goal, i want to use the first cyl and first set of cam lobes for it and machine the rest of the crank and cam off, my question is, should i design the frame similar to the KLR or more akin to my old YZ85 style of frame? and should i go with 6 or granny low and 6 gears?

[MICRider]

If you are budgeting about $3500 I would just go out and buy a used KLR650. The machine work alone for a project like this would be excessive.

[Tbone3366]

Originally Posted by MICRider

If you are budgeting about $3500 I would just go out and buy a used KLR650. The machine work alone for a project like this would be excessive.

i do all my own machine work and welding, thats not my problem, i also priced out the metal to make it, just the gear box design and trouble is my only concern

[TominMO]

This kinda sounds like building an ocean liner to cross a lake. But if you're just doing it for the challenge, and what you will learn as you have to design everything from the ground up, then go for it.

[Tbone3366]

Originally Posted by TominMO

This kinda sounds like building an ocean liner to cross a lake. But if you're just doing it for the challenge, and what you will learn as you have to design everything from the ground up, then go for it.

thats pretty much it, i bet against my buddy who said i couldnt

[TominMO]

Originally Posted by Tbone3366

thats pretty much it, i bet against my buddy who said i couldnt

After how many beers?

[Tbone3366]

Originally Posted by TominMO

After how many beers?

try after 6 bottles of crown and a lot of work on my 83 f150 over the week and banter about his KLR

[Tbone3366]

Originally Posted by TominMO

After how many beers?

anyway the goal is to be able to cruise at 75, and be able to go offroad, while returning decent fuel mileage, i decided to go with the 300s 4inch crank for that extra tq going down the road giving me 819ccs for a single cyl

[TominMO]

Originally Posted by Tbone3366

anyway the goal is to be able to cruise at 75, and be able to go offroad, while returning decent fuel mileage, i decided to go with the 300s 4inch crank for that extra tq going down the road giving me 819ccs for a single cyl

Pffft. Why think small? Use the entire motor and auto trans. You're gonna be building a frame anyway. So the frame components are a bit longer and thicker......

(Tbone drinks a couple more beers)
Yeah, that's a great idea!

[Tbone3366]

Originally Posted by TominMO

Pffft. Why think small? Use the entire motor and auto trans. You're gonna be building a frame anyway. So the frame components are a bit longer and thicker......

(Tbone drinks a couple more beers)
Yeah, that's a great idea!

sounds about right hahaha, anyways, i was challenged to a single cyl so i have to do so, but im gonna be cheeky and use the first cyl for a chevy LS since you can work them to fit and i have them already but can be bought for 40 to 200 bucks on ebay

[Tbone3366]

Originally Posted by TominMO

Pffft. Why think small? Use the entire motor and auto trans. You're gonna be building a frame anyway. So the frame components are a bit longer and thicker......

(Tbone drinks a couple more beers)
Yeah, that's a great idea!

anyway, to add a little bit of background, we both screw around the machine shop for an airport making/fixing parts for the planes and also i have my degree in CAD and networking so blueprinting is a cakewalk lol

[Sport Rider]

following, but with absolutely no useful input.



FWIW, I'm thinking smaller is better. 800+ cc will be bigger and heavier. the KLR concept is for off-road, etc. Weight is important. One of the reasons I'm thinking KLR style myself is to offset the weight of the ADV types.

Looking forward to following this though. pics along the way would be appreciated!

[Thumper]

There are liquid cooled NC300 4 valve OHC engines for sale that make 30+ horsepower, which is plenty of power to make 90mph or more. Heck, go for a 450cc engine! The problem is that they put these engines in more expensive bikes. These engine have 6 speed transmissions with gearing appropriate for a dirt bike, dual purpose, or road bike, and LOTS of useful torque.

This would be a great starting point for such a project. There would be plenty of need for fabrication and frame modification if you get a used dual sport with a bad engine. There are lots of those out there, but hard to find because they are not worth much and just sitting in the garage or under a tarp. You would need a radiator or two. The benefit of motorcycle engine design is thin walled aluminum case halves (significant weight considerations), internal stator/rotor, ignition trigger, Internal clutch, integrated gearbox. ALL of these things help keep weight way down, but also allow room for a carburetor in the frame space.

We have some threads about adapting (motorcycle) engines to frames on this forum. These projects can take a year or more! I guess my point is that you are proposing to build an albatross that won't really be good as a dual purpose bike. It could be better as a road bike, and maybe that is OK. Frankly, I am having trouble envisioning the process of taking a cylinder from an i6 block. That engine uses accessory belt(s) for alternator (etc), don't even have a stator with a CDI setup, including an ignition trigger. You are truly reinventing an entire engine before you even get to the point of adapting it to the frame. It will be nothing like a KLR. Are you thinking of using an accessory belt for generating voltage to power the charging system and ignition? And then there is the intake and exhaust issues. You would have to somehow engineer and fabricate the intake manifold (single carb) plate on the head, as well as a single exhaust port both with mounting studs. You would have to fabricate the exhaust as well.

Also, those i6 blocks have much thicker crankcase walls (iron! = weight) and cooling ducts. You will have to have a radiator if you can seal up the block. And where is the water pump going to be? I guess you can use the end of the engine that does have the external pulley and set up an accessory belt with water pump. This is going to be heavy and large! Gee! And as I said, then you have to get it into the frame! Aside from the cooling, ignition, charging system, there will be a gearbox bolted to this engine, and a clutch between them! Whoa. Maybe I am missing something here, but integrating that cylinder and crank with all of this seems impractical, if not nearly impossible.

I guess if Allen Milliard can adapt two cylinders from a Pratt and Whitney radial airplane engine into a 5L V-twin, I guess anything is possible! It doesn't look like a dual purpose bike though lol!

[Tbone3366]

Originally Posted by Thumper

There are liquid cooled NC300 4 valve OHC engines for sale that make 30+ horsepower, which is plenty of power to make 90mph or more. Heck, go for a 450cc engine! The problem is that they put these engines in more expensive bikes. These engine have 6 speed transmissions with gearing appropriate for a dirt bike, dual purpose, or road bike, and LOTS of useful torque.

This would be a great starting point for such a project. There would be plenty of need for fabrication and frame modification if you get a used dual sport with a bad engine. There are lots of those out there, but hard to find because they are not worth much and just sitting in the garage or under a tarp. You would need a radiator or two. The benefit of motorcycle engine design is thin walled aluminum case halves (significant weight considerations), internal stator/rotor, ignition trigger, Internal clutch, integrated gearbox. ALL of these things help keep weight way down, but also allow room for a carburetor in the frame space.

We have some threads about adapting (motorcycle) engines to frames on this forum. These projects can take a year or more! I guess my point is that you are proposing to build an albatross that won't really be good as a dual purpose bike. It could be better as a road bike, and maybe that is OK. Frankly, I am having trouble envisioning the process of taking a cylinder from an i6 block. That engine uses accessory belt(s) for alternator (etc), don't even have a stator with a CDI setup, including an ignition trigger. You are truly reinventing an entire engine before you even get to the point of adapting it to the frame. It will be nothing like a KLR. Are you thinking of using an accessory belt for generating voltage to power the charging system and ignition? And then there is the intake and exhaust issues. You would have to somehow engineer and fabricate the intake manifold (single carb) plate on the head, as well as a single exhaust port both with mounting studs. You would have to fabricate the exhaust as well.

Also, those i6 blocks have much thicker crankcase walls (iron! = weight) and cooling ducts. You will have to have a radiator if you can seal up the block. And where is the water pump going to be? I guess you can use the end of the engine that does have the external pulley and set up an accessory belt with water pump. This is going to be heavy and large! Gee! And as I said, then you have to get it into the frame! Aside from the cooling, ignition, charging system, there will be a gearbox bolted to this engine, and a clutch between them! Whoa. Maybe I am missing something here, but integrating that cylinder and crank with all of this seems impractical, if not nearly impossible.

I guess if Allen Milliard can adapt two cylinders from a Pratt and Whitney radial airplane engine into a 5L V-twin, I guess anything is possible! It doesn't look like a dual purpose bike though lol!

the bet is if i could make my own engine and bike from the ground up, buying parts like the suspension and chain etc... is acceptable