Templar X 250

[NCtemplar250]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Only 3-4hp? I guess that is something anyway. The Zongshen NC300 (4 valve, liquid jacket) engine has 74mm x 64mm (279cc) and it is rated at ~25hp. That is stock, with not ported head. I guess the 4 valve head helps.

This suggest that my OTM 265 kit might make 2-3hp, but only if I get a cam and port the head. Hmmm.

289cc kit- $350
cam- $165
head porting- $150

That is about $700 with shipping.

That doesn’t seem worth it. You’d probably be better off to get on a diet and lose 30lbs lol

It would be cheaper and have better returns.

[Okierider]

Originally Posted by NCtemplar250

That doesn’t seem worth it. You’d probably be better off to get on a diet and lose 30lbs lol

It would be cheaper and have better returns.

Lol! I wish it was that easy! I’ll probably put on 30 lbs in the near future when I get the home gym set back up and start powerlifting again.

Eh, if we can get to spitting distance of a crf300l power wise, for less than half the price, that ain’t bad.

[tknj99]

I'm guessing the biggest bang for the buck may be gutting the catalytic out of the exhaust as we've seen with the other bikes and which i have on my to-do list. That's how it was on my Brozz, although i just changed out the whole exhaust, for the same effect, it definitely was felt in the seat of the pants. Everything beyond that adds up for cumulative gains at a cost.

[Thumper]

The Otom kit cost me just over $115. Otom's larger bore kit could cost $150 or $175, If I could find one. That would make the whole package a little more worthwhile. I don't think they make one (I wonder who makes the 289cc kit?).

FYI, I think it isn't the water cooling. It is the 4 valve head that makes the bigger difference. It is just a hotter engine and needs the liquid cooling.

I will eventually do the install, but I have much higher priorities and problems to deal with. I think the Otom kit is well made, and good quality, but a 1-2 hp gain on an engine with less than 500 miles on it isn't the time to dismantle this perfectly good stock 172FMM-3A. Also, I need to put this money elsewhere at the moment, and just installing the Otom kit is only a part of the complete upgrades. It will have to wait.

I just checked and the kit I got is now $140 !! I look at it this way... a modest increase in displacement along with the head work and a cam, and opening up the exhaust will probably bring a couple of horse power more in the midrange. I think it is worth it, once I have a few thousand miles on the bike. But rather than buying another engine, I think I will focus on either a 250 2-stroke or 450-4 stroke. Either of those DOUBLE the hp that the stock 172FMM makes. The latter engines are closer to 50hp.

[Okierider]

Thumper the 289 kit he sells is made in house by him.
That’s the problem with his pistons, he makes it sound like they are made for him, not an off the shelf item.

Ya know, 4hp would amount to about 20% increase in power. You spend A LOT more than $1000 bucks for that on a Chevy small block.
This thing with 20% more power/torque would be a ton of fun.
After that though, I’m thinking DR 650.

[Thumper]

All true. 20% is significant. And I appreciate the art of extracting power from a stock engine with upgrades.

If I had lots of cash and time, I would be all in on the 172FMM. But the bike is great as is, and I want to save up for a new bike.

Maybe the Otom kit was an impulsive buy And finding out that this 300cc kit is a 15cc upgrade to 265cc is disappointing.

Pound for pound, my time and money is focusing on a much more powerful Enduro. It is within reach

I will eventually see what I can get out of that 172FMM block. It's OK for now.

[Imposing Will]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I have seen posts here where people ask if anyone has tried a pod filter on the Templar X. I don't know about the Templar and Templar M, but the carb on the Templar X aims at the rear shock spring, and there just isn't any room for a pod filter.

But, the snorkel has a nice smooth internal surface that snakes around to a VERY LARGE opening with a BIG OILED DOME FILTER. I don't think a pod filter would be better even if you COULD get it in there! In fact, a pod filter might be more restrictive. That dome filter offers a lot of surface area and it is very porous. Air must flow past that dome filter quite freely, and the large surface area allows for good filtering as well.

I think the answer is to keep the dome filter clean, and replace it if it gets too fouled to clean.

If you install a different carb, good luck on mating the snorkel. If you changed your carb, have you got a picture of this????

I put a Nibbi PE28 clone on mine. 125/42 I believe jetting wise, didn't touch the needle. Air/fuel @ 1.5ish out on the fuel screw. Runs really really good now, idle is consistent, and no more stalling. Plug looks great. I had it running fine with the stock carb, rejetted with similar settings-but it absolutely runs better with the Nibbi.
Ironically-the Nibbi on my Kayo K2 is finicky. ?? I'll try to get good pics of mine on the X, but it fit perfectly. No issues, maybe a little better honestly.

[Okierider]

Originally Posted by Thumper

All true. 20% is significant. And I appreciate the art of extracting power from a stock engine with upgrades.

If I had lots of cash and time, I would be all in on the 172FMM. But the bike is great as is, and I want to save up for a new bike.

Maybe the Otom kit was an impulsive buy And finding out that this 300cc kit is a 15cc upgrade to 265cc is disappointing.

Pound for pound, my time and money is focusing on a much more powerful Enduro. It is within reach

I will eventually see what I can get out of that 172FMM block. It's OK for now.

I think I know what you’re talking about and if you actually get it here I’m going to tell my wife the hole in our bank account is your fault lol.

That’s why I bought the spare/mod motor. This thing runs so damn well as is, I don’t want to mess it up. Better to have a spare engine to play with at my leisure and still have a rideable bike.

[NCtemplar250]

Originally Posted by Okierider

Lol! I wish it was that easy! I’ll probably put on 30 lbs in the near future when I get the home gym set back up and start powerlifting again.

Eh, if we can get to spitting distance of a crf300l power wise, for less than half the price, that ain’t bad.

I have a home gym in the garage for olympic lifting and kettlebell workouts. Nothing better than moving iron. Keeps me sane.

Yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to you guys testing out the big bore stuff, but I think I like the logic of waiting for a couple thousand miles before doing the upgrade. This thing just rides/runs so well already, and I can't wait to see what she's like with more appropriate jetting and a 42T rear sprocket.

[NCtemplar250]

Originally Posted by Imposing Will

I put a Nibbi PE28 clone on mine. 125/42 I believe jetting wise, didn't touch the needle. Air/fuel @ 1.5ish out on the fuel screw. Runs really really good now, idle is consistent, and no more stalling. Plug looks great. I had it running fine with the stock carb, rejetted with similar settings-but it absolutely runs better with the Nibbi.
Ironically-the Nibbi on my Kayo K2 is finicky. ?? I'll try to get good pics of mine on the X, but it fit perfectly. No issues, maybe a little better honestly.

Could you share a link to the specific Nibbi you purchased? I've decided I'm not going to mess with modifying the stock carb, and instead I'll just buy a replacement to swap in when I change the jetting on my bike.

Were you able to use the stock choke cable/lever with the Nibbi, or did you just leave the choke lever on the carb?

[Okierider]

Originally Posted by NCtemplar250

Could you share a link to the specific Nibbi you purchased? I've decided I'm not going to mess with modifying the stock carb, and instead I'll just buy a replacement to swap in when I change the jetting on my bike.

Were you able to use the stock choke cable/lever with the Nibbi, or did you just leave the choke lever on the carb?

Good question-in for answer

[Imposing Will]

Originally Posted by NCtemplar250

Could you share a link to the specific Nibbi you purchased? I've decided I'm not going to mess with modifying the stock carb, and instead I'll just buy a replacement to swap in when I change the jetting on my bike.

Were you able to use the stock choke cable/lever with the Nibbi, or did you just leave the choke lever on the carb?

Stock choke, everything lines right up.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265936679080

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Imposing Will

I put a Nibbi PE28 clone on mine. 125/42 I believe jetting wise, didn't touch the needle. Air/fuel @ 1.5ish out on the fuel screw. Runs really really good now, idle is consistent, and no more stalling. Plug looks great. I had it running fine with the stock carb, rejetted with similar settings-but it absolutely runs better with the Nibbi.
Ironically-the Nibbi on my Kayo K2 is finicky. ?? I'll try to get good pics of mine on the X, but it fit perfectly. No issues, maybe a little better honestly.

Can you post a photo of the carb in place? Seeing the intake and airbox connections lining up would be useful. Also, the choke is in exactly the same place, but would like to see it installed. Even the fuel intake is in the same place!

[Thumper]

Oh crap. I ordered a CB250-F head. What the heck am I thinking
I guess I can do the head work while I plot my 40-50hp enduro plan

I am SOooooo inconsistent, and cheap

[Imposing Will]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Can you post a photo of the carb in place? Seeing the intake and airbox connections lining up would be useful. Also, the choke is in exactly the same place, but would like to see it installed. Even the fuel intake is in the same place!

I'll take some pics Saturday. Been working late the last few days, tomorrow will likely be the same. It's a perfect fit, though. Including the choke assembly.