Hawk Talk

[Ariel Red Hunter]

I'm reasonably sure that after doing a a super sano job of cleaning and re-greasing the steering head bearings, you decided you might as well pull the front and rear axle spindles and the swing arm hinge bolt and re clean and grease them since you were already dirty, so might as well. And now you have time to make sure that the centerline of the wheels are exactly on the center line of the frame. That is important for handling and safty, especially on paved roads at traffic speeds. Have you replaced the fuel hoses yet? This is pretty much a must do even if you are running non-ethenol treated gas, absolutely essential if you have been using pump regular. Pump regular has 10-15% ethenol in it, and it destroys Chinese made fuel hose. What you decide to do about tires is up to you, but the tires that come on the bike are adequete, but not much more. Tubes MUST be replaced, unless you've done that already. New rim straps are a good idea as well. Adjust, but do not over-tighten the spokes before you change the tubes so you can file off ane spoke portrubance above the nipples....ARH

[Ariel Red Hunter]

If you are thinking of doing porting work on your Hawk this winter, I recommend that you study the Hawk Down file by jerryhawk250. Read it all carefully, and really examine the pictures. The latest picture up, by jerryhawk, really shows quality work...ARH

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

If you are thinking of doing porting work on your Hawk this winter, I recommend that you study the Hawk Down file by jerryhawk250. Read it all carefully, and really examine the pictures. The latest picture up, by jerryhawk, really shows quality work...ARH

All the credit goes to Silva as he's the one that lit the fire under Megadan and I's butts to move forward. lol . Nothing like a little peer pressure We have another member here doing some headwork and installing an oil cooler but I'll wait till he post up what he has done. I think he is waiting to get everything done before posting.

[Megadan]

Dang, no love for my work. I may as well melt down my bike and use it as a paper weight.

Granted, I admit mine isn't as pretty looking, and my exhaust side isn't as in depth in shaping the front side of the valve guide on the exhaust side, but that can always change....I have nothing but time lol.

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Dang, no love for my work. I may as well melt down my bike and use it as a paper weight.

Granted, I admit mine isn't as pretty looking, and my exhaust side isn't as in depth in shaping the front side of the valve guide on the exhaust side, but that can always change....I have nothing but time lol.

Its all your fault. Your pressured me into doing it. Honestly It doesn't have to be that pretty. As long as it opens up the bottle necks and let it flow freely. Anyone can do it. I wasn't planning on going this far with it. But I had a lot of time on hand so figured why not?

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

Its all your fault. Your pressured me into doing it. Honestly It doesn't have to be that pretty. As long as it opens up the bottle necks and let it flow freely. Anyone can do it. I wasn't planning on going this far with it. But I had a lot of time on hand so figured why not?

It's a vicious chain of peer pressure. I posted a thread that put ideas in peoples heads, then someone beat me to it so I had to get around to it with mine...

I know it doesn't have to be that pretty. I wouldn't call mine ugly though. I focused on maintaining cross sections without cutting back the valve guides (as you know). I also focused on improvements with as minimal material removal as possible, which means the area just in front of my valve guide will never look pretty, and I may sacrifice a little flow because of it, but in the grand scheme of things it is a very very small percentage over what I will see over the stock port shape.

I know you don't fall into this category, but I think too many people focus on pretty finishes and shiny surfaces over the actual elements that matter. I learned from Mr. Smithberg, who owns on of the best porting and performance shops in my area. While I am not him, I used a lot of the techniques and tools he showed me, including telescopic gauges. One big lesson he taught me is that sometimes an ugly finish with the right dimensions is better than a pretty finish that is too big. He actually had a couple of heads as examples that he had dynoed, both SBC heads dynoed on the same short block. The pretty heads made less power across the powerband than a set of heads he had done and left "ugly" but with the right overall shape and volumes.

[JerryHawk250]

Correct, It's not about the finish but removing the right amount in the right places. You did a great job on yours. All that pretty shinny stuff don't mean squat if it's not ported right. Between you, Silva and I we have three different out comes of what we have done. Just curious on the difference in performance of each one. Looks like the weather will warm up for the weekend so i'll be able to test it out. Thanks for putting the idea in my head lol I love this kind of stuff.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

Correct, It's not about the finish but removing the right amount in the right places. You did a great job on yours. All that pretty shinny stuff don't mean squat if it's not ported right. Between you, Silva and I we have three different out comes of what we have done. Just curious on the difference in performance of each one. Looks like the weather will warm up for the weekend so i'll be able to test it out. Thanks for putting the idea in my head lol I love this kind of stuff.

Yeah, we did end up with 3 very different approaches. Silva's is what I consider a good basic port job, I guess we can call it stage 1. I went all "stage 2" and opened up around the guides. You wen't all stage 3 and reshaped the port roof and guide area.

I wouldn't recommend anybody try what you did without a spare head (or knowing what they are doing), because it is very easy to screw up that kind of work.

I would have already installed my head if I were not wanting to actually quantify the change with a dyno before and after.

What would be really awesome to see is a side by side of all three bikes vs. an unmoded Hawk head ( my baseline).

Heck, even the most basic work like Silva's is more than enough to see a huge improvement. The protrusion of the port roof on the top side of the valve guide, especially on the exhaust, is a massive choke point. To anybody consdering trying to port their heads, but may be nervous about doing this kind of work, that is something that anybody can do very cheaply, and almost impossible to screw up. Very cheap and easy way to pick up a couple of HP. A 1 1/2 increase in main jet size is nothing to sneeze at.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Dang, no love for my work. I may as well melt down my bike and use it as a paper weight.

Granted, I admit mine isn't as pretty looking, and my exhaust side isn't as in depth in shaping the front side of the valve guide on the exhaust side, but that can always change....I have nothing but time lol.

Hey, it isn't a contest. Your work is fine. But JH250's shows a goal to shoot for. But shortening intake side valve guide doesn't hurt anything, but I don't like shortening the guide on the exhaust side....ARH

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

Hey, it isn't a contest. Your work is fine. But JH250's shows a goal to shoot for. But shortening intake side valve guide doesn't hurt anything, but I don't like shortening the guide on the exhaust side....ARH

I need to measure the guides total length, but my apprehension with the intake side is making to too short. I don't like going shorter than 2 inches on valve guides.

I know my work is fine btw. I was just goofing around.

[Azhule]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Yeah, we did end up with 3 very different approaches.

Just wait till I get motivated to work on the Bashan Cylinder Head, you will see a 4th way to do things

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by Azhule

Just wait till I get motivated to work on the Bashan Cylinder Head, you will see a 4th way to do things

Any we will all be waiting to see the results. 90mph???? we shall see.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Azhule

Just wait till I get motivated to work on the Bashan Cylinder Head, you will see a 4th way to do things

I am actually looking forward to it. I enjoy seeing other peoples work, and it would be nice to see more people hop on the porting wagon.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

Any we will all be waiting to see the results. 90mph???? we shall see.

Speed in the lower to mid 80's is possible. My AJS 250 CSR would run out at 83 on a level, no wind road. Or that's what the Trooper with the radar gun said. LOL....ARH

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

Speed in the lower to mid 80's is possible. My AJS 250 CSR would run out at 83 on a level, no wind road. Or that's what the Trooper with the radar gun said. LOL....ARH

Azhule is already running 80+ mph. Can only get faster.