15W40 4T engine oil -unobtainium?

[China Rider 27]

Originally Posted by Boatguy

Why is the T4 better than the full synthetic T6 stuff for our bikes?

(I think it was T6 that’s full synthetic)

Most I think, if not all, at least that I have seen here on the forum, use non synthetic T-4 for break in, with many then switching to full synthetic T6. The idea is by using dino oil you allow these poorly machined motors to break rings in easier and smoothen up the gears etc. Frankly, it might be a superstition of the internet as I have seen no information to indicate that using a synthetic oil from the get go prevents piston ring seal. I think now the new cars come with full synthetic oil. Despite my doubts, I too subscribed to the superstition and used dino oil for break in but not a minute longer moving to synthetic. After 1000 kmh my transmission shifts smooth as butter almost to smooth?

[ChillRider]

Well, for me the difference between a mineral and (semi)synthetic is just 200-300 km more between change intervals, and less thickening for cold starts. As I said before, mineral == 600 km tops, semi-synthetic: 800, maybe 900. Mostly city/highway commuting riding, BTW.


Maybe a true, full synthetic would stretch by an extra 200, reaching maaaybe 1200 without the transmission feeling like total cr@p by the time you decide "it's time for an oil change". We're talking about air-cooled, hot-running and ridden-hard little motors, after all

[China Rider 27]

I don't run synthetic for a longer oil change interval, I use if for its heat protection capabilities and other superior qualities, and don't think much about the change interval as the way I see it a quart of oil no matter the cost for 500 miles of riding is cheap no matter how you cut it and I just change it. If oil cost or availability is an issue, and/or you drive and change oil a lot, then a cost benefit analysis is needed dino versus synthetic worth the cost.

[ChillRider]

Keep in mind that a fully synthetic motor oil, aka not just a "semi synthetic" or "synthetic blend" is gonna cost quite more compared to a basic mineral or synthetic blend oil. Like 2-3 times more, not just a few extra dollars. And, well, paying Eur 15 a bottle for e.g. Castrol Power1 Racing 10W50 4T for a chinabike sounds a bit overkill

The wording on the packaging can also be misleading: just "synthetic" or "synthetic technology" usually indicates a blend/semi-synthetic, which could very well be a 90% mineral base and 10% synthetic thrown in for good measure. "Fully synthetic" or "100% synthetic" is better, as long as they don't further murk the waters with stuff like "100% synthetic blend"

Then again, an oil with an extended viscosity range such as 0W-40 or 5W-40 or even 10W-50 is quite likely fully synthetic (I don't even think it's possible to go beyond 5W-30, 10W40 or 15W50 with a semi-synthetic). A fully synthetic oil in common grades such as 10W40 will command somewhat of a premium. With straight mineral oils it doesn't seem possible to go beyond 15W40, 20W50 or monotype oils (e.g. straight 20, straight 30 etc.)

[Boatguy]

Ok. I think I was just getting confused about the break in oil vs the forever oil.

I like synthetic in everything. I run the full synthetic Rotella in my diesel and love it. I even run full synthetic in little lawnmower small engines and it quiets them down and let’s them run so smoothly!

I was hoping I could do the same with the China bike and I’m glad I can.

Looking forward to a bit smoother shifting but I only have about 20 miles on this thing so it’s just the beginning of break in

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Boatguy

Ok. I think I was just getting confused about the break in oil vs the forever oil.

I like synthetic in everything. I run the full synthetic Rotella in my diesel and love it. I even run full synthetic in little lawnmower small engines and it quiets them down and let’s them run so smoothly!

I was hoping I could do the same with the China bike and I’m glad I can.

Looking forward to a bit smoother shifting but I only have about 20 miles on this thing so it’s just the beginning of break in

The biggest issue with most modern synthetic oils is they don't have much zinc in them, which for the flat tappet style cam followers can potentially mean accelerated wear. One big reason the Rotella oils are such a good choice for engines with tappets is the fact that they have one of the highest zddp levels of any oil on the market. Ranging from 1100 to 1300 ppm.

My bikes loves the 15w40 T6.

[Bacchus]

How long is the break in period? Or when should one switch to the t6?

[Midnyte Ryder]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

How long is the break in period? Or when should one switch to the t6?

One oil change past initial breakin, for those who are opposed to break in with synthetics.

In my personal experience, conventional oil not only benefits from more zinc, but it has a tendency to catch and carry metal from the initial breakin better than synthetic. Meaning using conventional through the first oil change does a better job of getting that breakin metal out of the engine. My personal opinion only.

Synthetic oil is also "slicker" than conventional, so it runs off of parts faster than conventional oil. Something to consider.

As for synthetic oil preventing ring seal, it is a myth. When properly broken in, the cylinder pressure that actually seats the rings couldnt care less if the oil is conventional or synthetic. Another personal opinion however backed by much R&D.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

How long is the break in period? Or when should one switch to the t6?

I switched my bike to T6 after 500 miles. By that point the vast majority of the break in is done. Although some could argue to wait 1k miles.

[Wild Dog]

For what is worth, it seems that Rotella meets the specs for JASO

Taken from Shell website




But in the other hand it seems that Shell never submitted the oil to be tested by the Japanese.
Here is the list with oils that were submitted, tested and certified (last update March 1 2021)

http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf

[Wild Dog]

"What we've got here is failure to communicate"
Sorry i had to quote it.


I think this is just a big misunderstanding. While is true that Rotella meets Jaso spec, is not actually rated by JASO.

This is a label from an oil that is actually certified by the Japanese.

As we can see there is box with the Jaso rating, in this case is MA and the Jaso oil code "M081YMC600"




Midnyte Ryder is talking about the oil being rated by JASO, rather than being specced to JASO norms

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Wild Dog

"What we've got here is failure to communicate"
Sorry i had to quote it.


I think this is just a big misunderstanding. While is true that Rotella meets Jaso spec, is not actually rated by JASO.

This is a label from an oil that is actually certified by the Japanese.

As we can see there is box with the Jaso rating, in this case is MA and the Jaso oil code "M081YMC600"

Attachment 24115


Midnyte Ryder is talking about the oil being rated by JASO, rather than being specced to JASO norms

See, thats how one presents a proper argument, and I accept that argument. Thank you for being clear and concise.

[tknj99]

I've always stayed out of oil discussions, ive seen how heated they can get.. I think its great to share ideas and knowledge but no need to argue to the point it gets disrespectful, I think we are all here to share and learn.. I know I am, as I have always been on this and many other vehicle forums..

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by tknj99

I've always stayed out of oil discussions, ive seen how heated they can get.. .

Ironic isn't it?? Because the main function of oil is to reduce friction, make things cooler, make everything a bit more smoth.

[XLsior]

to quote Castrol marketing, "Oils Ain't Oils"