Bolt on no mods oil cooler? Any intrest?

[BlackBike]

All my money either goes to walm, or for fuel.

[kohburn]

if you are doing this it would be very preferable to have the thermal bypass built in to skip the oil cooler until it heats up.

['16 TT250]

I looked at the banggood which also comes with a valve cover but can't see the ports and they don't say how it flows. So is this taking the pressurized oil running it through the cooler then back to where it was going originally or is it a bypass type where the cooled oil is dumped into the head to drain down?

[Weldangrind]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

Yeah, that's right. A PCV valve is a great solution. May have to change to a more rigid hose too. Or use a short piece of rigid hose at the cranckase, plug in the PCV, and use the original hose from there on out.

For anyone who might not be clear about it, the end that normally pushes into a valve cover grommet would need to be inserted into the hose.

I'm not comfortable just letting pressure escape with no air being allowed to enter. I understand the principle on a V-8 that has cylinders phased every 45 degrees, but a single cylinder pumps air in as the piston rises and pumps air out as it falls. This action allows pressure to escape with no strain on seals and gaskets. A simple filter would accomplish the same thing with no (or very little) restriction. One would need to keep an eye on the filter and pack a spare. Once it is clogged, there would be no crankcase ventilation.

[kohburn]

and on V engine configurations there is a PCV to generate one direction of airflow through the crankcase drawing fresh air in through one bank and out through the other.


the outlet goes to the engine intake to burn the oil mist and fuel vapor for emissions elimination.




you don't want to build pressure or draw a vacuum in the crankcase or you will cause seals to fail.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

For anyone who might not be clear about it, the end that normally pushes into a valve cover grommet would need to be inserted into the hose.

I'm not comfortable just letting pressure escape with no air being allowed to enter. I understand the principle on a V-8 that has cylinders phased every 45 degrees, but a single cylinder pumps air in as the piston rises and pumps air out as it falls. This action allows pressure to escape with no strain on seals and gaskets. A simple filter would accomplish the same thing with no (or very little) restriction. One would need to keep an eye on the filter and pack a spare. Once it is clogged, there would be no crankcase ventilation.

You may be right on the subject of crankcase pumping. All I can say in defense of my position is that's the way its been done for over a hundred years on single cylinder engines. And V-twins as well. But those engines were either total loss oiling or dry sump. It is possible that it is no longer neccessary with wet sump engines. Lower crankase pressure reduces oil frothing and pressure leaks from the seals. Not to mention air pumping losses from moving 1000 cc of air for every firing impulse. To pump air takes power which we want to use for other purposes. Don't worry about lack of air in the crankcase, plenty of air gets in there during the power stroke. It gets past the rings under compression and from gas pressure. It was found long ago that all of that air whistling through the innards of an engine caused power losses due to oil swirling. Pumping aerated oil (oil mist) takes even more power than pumping pure air. Why? Because it is heavier.

[SeerAtlas]

Originally Posted by '16 TT250

I looked at the banggood which also comes with a valve cover but can't see the ports and they don't say how it flows. So is this taking the pressurized oil running it through the cooler then back to where it was going originally or is it a bypass type where the cooled oil is dumped into the head to drain down?

don't take this as gospel, but if i remember correctly, my impression was that the oil coming up the head from the pump goes out the cover thru a banjo to the cooler, then back into the cover through another banjo to drain, cools the top end then drains back down the normal path to the sump.

I "could" be wrong, but as Wolf pointed out, it goes thru the cooler with substantial flow. if you don't tighten things down correctly, you get a lot of oil exiting the connections, talking spray city

[Mudflap]

On a CG engine the oil pump picks up oil from behind the cleanable screen behind the screw cap. From there the oil stream splits 3 ways, one to the transmission, one through the centrifugal filter and into the crankshaft, and one up the cylinder into the valve cover where it is sprayed onto the rocker arms. The oil cooler would divert the rocker arm oil through the cooler then back to the rockers. Because the rockers don't need all that much oil, a slight restriction by the cooler won't be a problem.

['16 TT250]

Ahh, I assumed the rockers were pressure lubed.

I would be concerned that the cooler will drain back when parked unless that circuit has a check valve. Depending on where the restrictor is for the top end oil feed it could starve the engine for pressure while the cooler fills.

[mjstef]

Originally Posted by '16 TT250

Ahh, I assumed the rockers were pressure lubed.

I would be concerned that the cooler will drain back when parked unless that circuit has a check valve. Depending on where the restrictor is for the top end oil feed it could starve the engine for pressure while the cooler fills.

Oil squirts out tiny holes right over the rocker. Cooler design i am working on cannot drain back as the top of the cooler is below the in and out of the valve cover....

['16 TT250]

Originally Posted by mjstef

Oil squirts out tiny holes right over the rocker. Cooler design i am working on cannot drain back as the top of the cooler is below the in and out of the valve cover....

Siphon. The cooler doesn't have to be above the valve cover, just above the lowest point in the sealed feed line's end-aka the sump. As long as the inlet of the cooler is the upper hose it shouldn't completely drain, but if the upper is the inlet the cooler can hold air which would defeat some of it's cooling abilities. If the flow restriction of that circuit is the tiny holes in the VC then the whole system will be lacking pressure 'till oil gets to those holes.

[kohburn]

since the rockers are just being externally gravity lubed there is very little risk of oil starvation at start up. the oil they need will still be in the bearing areas for those 10 seconds until the system is filled up IF the oil drains out.


if you were really concerned about it then you could add an inline check valve easily enough. even easier would probably be a tiny bleed hole between inlet and outlet as a syphon break. you would lose a small percentage of the oil flow through the cooler, but its a very functional low tech solution.

[pete]

Originally Posted by kohburn

since the rockers are just being externally gravity lubed there is very little risk of oil starvation at start up. the oil they need will still be in the bearing areas for those 10 seconds until the system is filled up IF the oil drains out.


if you were really concerned about it then you could add an inline check valve easily enough. even easier would probably be a tiny bleed hole between inlet and outlet as a syphon break. you would lose a small percentage of the oil flow through the cooler, but its a very functional low tech solution.

This maybe possable...
On my XT660 when I put the cooler on I feed the oil into the top of the cooler
then out the bottom into the oil tank so the cooler couldn't drain...
only real diffrents is the XT is a dry sump motor and has a oil tank in the frame with
a inlet that is higher than the cooler....

but something along these line maybe worth looking at....

..

[kohburn]

if your cooler has both inlet and oulet on top then it will break vacuum/syphon as soon as the oil level inthe cooler drops below the top fin. so it will stay full all the time and only the lines have to fill back up.

[kohburn]

also if the attachment method is banjo fittings there are already check valve banjo bolts on the market and have been used on motorcycles for a number of years.