05-01-2017, 02:48 AM | #46 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 25,054
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Since the valve recession was obvious, I didn't remove any of the valves for inspection. I wanted to ship the untampered cylinder head to Gerry for his inspection. I also didn't care to do the extra work.
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Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894 |
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05-01-2017, 03:54 AM | #47 | |
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ChCh , NZ
Posts: 2,266
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Quote:
parts are made in batchs not one offs..... So if it's not a assembly issue from the factoy !!! Spuds bike was one of the first so any other bikes in the same shipment could have parts from the same batch... So read into that what yer want... ....
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05-01-2017, 06:12 AM | #48 |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: FL, GA, NC
Posts: 771
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Thanks Jay and Pete.
Pete, what do you "read into that"? I was hoping Spud still had the cylinder head. It shouldn't be too difficult to have a lab do a hardness test on the valve seats. I suspect my RX3 engine has a similar condition, in addition to other problems. At ~8,500 miles both intake valves went to zero clearance within 1,000 miles. The lock nuts on the threaded adjusters were still tight. My RX3 is from the second US shipment. As of now, I have decided to "test the engine to failure". Then I will open it up to see what is going on. jb
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05-01-2017, 06:55 AM | #49 | |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: FL, GA, NC
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Quote:
jb
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2016 Honda CB500F......2017 Triumph Street Twin 2014 XT 250........ |
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05-01-2017, 09:56 AM | #50 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 25,054
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Yes, of course we chatted after he received the cylinder head. As I could tell from a visual inspection, he verified the intake valves had significant valve recession. He also said CSC was contacting Zongshen regarding this issue. We arranged for the delivery of the replacement parts, et cetera. I rebuilt the engine, and I have not chatted with him again regarding this matter. With over 3,000 miles ridden since the repair, the engine is running great.
Soon I am going to purchase more items from Taobao. Among those items I am going to order a spare, empty cylinder head for 320 Yuan ($46.39 USD). As long as one is capable and willing to do the engine repairs, the replacement parts from China are very inexpensive. Here are two links to Taobao vendors selling the cylinder head. https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...cket=20#detail https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...cket=20#detail
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Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894 |
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05-01-2017, 10:14 AM | #51 |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: FL, GA, NC
Posts: 771
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Thanks for the info, Spud.
I am glad to hear that CSC is contacting Zongshen about the issue. jb
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05-01-2017, 10:57 AM | #52 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 25,054
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Quote:
In case anyone wonders, I do not work for CSC Motorcycles. I paid the same price as everyone else for my RX3 motorcycle, and I have never received any monetary compensation from CSC. I am merely a fan of Zongshen motorcycles, since I own a ZS200GY-2 with almost 80,000 miles on the odometer, and a ZS250GY-3 with over 25,000 miles on the odometer. I bought my first Zongshen motorcycle in 2008, long before CSC became the dealer for these motorcycles in North America. I certainly don't want to harm CSC motorcycles. Quite to the contrary, I wish for them to succeed. CSC Motorcycles is an honest business which provides excellent customer service. Indeed, I was somewhat reluctant to post this thread. However, I believe very few riders in North America have logged as many miles on an RX3 motorcycle as I. Therefore, I felt a moral obligation to report this problem. I posted this thread as a friendly warning for others to be watchful for this problem. I don't have a crystal ball. Therefore, I don't know if anyone else is going to encounter this problem. It is impossible to manufacture every vehicle perfectly. Many excellent vehicles from many different manufacturers, both foreign and domestic, have occasional mechanical problems. Only time will tell whether this particular problem with this particular vehicle is rare, or not. The Zongshen RX3 is not the only motorcycle with this engine. The NC250 (ZS177MM) engine is installed in a number of different street bikes and dirt bikes sold by Zongshen and other manufacturers. Surely many Chinese owners of the RX3 motorcyle have logged more miles than I. Nevertheless, I haven't heard of this problem occurring before. Perhaps this problem has occurred previously, but I am unaware of it, personally. If the NC250 engine has problems, I'm confident these problems will be resolved by Zongshen, and honestly covered under warranty by CSC Motorcycles. Therefore, if anyone suspects he is having this problem, I strongly encourage him to to take advantage of the excellent warranty coverage offered by CSC.
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Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894 |
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05-01-2017, 11:02 AM | #53 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 25,054
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You're welcome.
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Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894 |
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05-01-2017, 11:33 AM | #54 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 25,054
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Doing a little more searching on Taobao, I found an empty cylinder head selling for 270 Yuan ($39.15 USD).
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Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894 |
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05-01-2017, 12:25 PM | #55 |
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Volcano, Ca
Posts: 7,112
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Spud, do you have ethanol gas up there? I know it's hard on rubber parts but it can also cause engine damage by increasing exhaust temps.....which would directly effect the valves.
Odd thing is my intakes never needs adjusting, just the exhausts. Of course, I don't put on the miles you do.
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05-01-2017, 01:18 PM | #56 |
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Warshington
Posts: 928
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Question about receding valves? What are the causes? Is the valve seat hammering into the aluminum head? Seat hole in head machined to deep allowing it to get hammered in farther till it bottoms out in hole? Seat or valve material to soft so angles wear out prematurely. Running bad gas? Freeway driving where throttle is close to wide open most of the day?
I take it ,it mostly isn't something an owner would do to cause it? Can't say how my vales are behaving cause I think I went about 7000 miles between last adjustment and it ran fine, but was occasionally dying when coming to a stop on Baja trip. Had CSC adjust them when we got back and runs great at 14,200 miles on it now. Mine was 2nd batch when price went from $2895 to $3495. Still the most fun money I've ever spent. rj
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05-01-2017, 01:47 PM | #57 | ||
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: FL, GA, NC
Posts: 771
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't think of it as being a bearer of bad news, but as something that rider's should be aware of.... ....especially on a product that is expected to be "rider maintained". As a consumer, I want as much info on the product as possible. Both good and not-so-good.......and to know if a problem is a simple fix, or more involved and costly. I hope people don't misinterpret all my questions as being negative to CSC. Quite the contrary. CSC has consistently gone above and beyond in supporting the RX3. However, in one of CSC Dude's blog posts, he said that they would prefer problems to be discussed directly with CSC, and NOT on the "forums". I think open discussion is beneficial to solving problems. For example: Because of open discussion, I was able to correct several potential issues on my DR 650 that could have become serious and expensive problems. ...neutral indicator bolt ...counter shaft seal retainer ...upper chain roller All simple fixes, if done before they become an issue. Not sharing this information would have been a disservice to DR owners. IMO, reporting issues openly, by actual owner/riders, not the "keyboard commandos", is beneficial to all owners. jb
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2016 Honda CB500F......2017 Triumph Street Twin 2014 XT 250........ |
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05-01-2017, 03:20 PM | #58 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 25,054
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Quote:
Your two RX3 motorcycle came on the first shipment from China, just like mine. It's interesting that your intake valves have stabilized, but your exhaust valves have not, while my experience was just the opposite. I'm tempted to experiment with one of the fuel additives, especially the Lucas UCL (Upper Cylinder Lubricant), but I also want to see if the valve lash will stabilize in the new cylinder head without using a fuel additive.
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Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894 |
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05-01-2017, 04:18 PM | #59 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 25,054
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As usual, you are welcome.
Quote:
I also agree with your positive comments regarding the customer service from CSC. Quote:
I knew you were having some mechanical issues, and I also knew you were nearing the end of your warranty coverage. Therefore, I felt morally obligated to advise you, and others in your situation, of the possible consequences which might occur if your valve clearances will not stabilize. I appreciate the excellent customer service from CSC, and I truly want them to succeed and prosper. However, I feel an even greater obligation to my fellow RX3 owners, such as yourself. I have had several mechanical problems with my RX3. You might remember the problem which occurred when the crankshaft nut loosened, and cracked the right crankcase on my motorcycle. As far as I know, nobody else has encountered this problem, probably because CSC notified everyone else and advised them to perform a maintenance check at 10,000 miles. As with resolving that problem, I also didn't want to perform a top end rebuild of this engine. However, to their credit, in both instances CSC honored their unlimited mileage, 2-year warranty. Many of us on this forum, and other forums, have contributed a great deal to the improvement of the CSC Cyclone RX3. We are dedicated enthusiasts of this motorcycle, so we naturally will continue to inform fellow owners of potential problems, upgrades, and modifications. This normal process of sharng information is universal for owners of all motor vehicles from all vendors, whether big or small, foreign or domestic. Despite having several mechanical problems, I am still glad I purchased a Zongshen RX3 motorcycle from CSC. The more I ride my Zongshen RX3, the more I enjoy riding it, especially after I installed the lighter spring (now standard) on my Progressive shock, and switched to a 21-inch front wheel.
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Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894 |
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05-11-2017, 02:52 PM | #60 |
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: England
Posts: 382
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Spud, what a bad stroke of luck, that sucks.
but resulted in a great tutorial from you There is a detailed service manual available on the AJP website for the PR5, you and others already know, It uses the same engine as ours. so is seems quite relevant. (I don't think we have had this one on here before ) It contains a number of procedures, specs, service wear limits and torque settings in regards to the engine and fuel system. It Might serve as a good companion to your tutorials. http://motoajp.com/ajp-support/pr-service-manuals/ |
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