SG400 and Hayalon - Page 3

Falkon45 · 03-31-2022, 11:49 AM

Do the Ton!!!! Seriously, seeing a chinese bike do a legitimate 100mph would make me happy.

ChopperCharles · 03-31-2022, 10:33 PM

Also, at the bike also FEELS over-geared. Even if I don't make the ton with the SG400, it'll make my everyday riding full of shits and giggles

Charles.

ChopperCharles · 03-31-2022, 11:20 PM

Looks like a 520 version of the NC450 countershaft sprocket fits. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002100495051.html

Same 14 teeth, and supposed to fit the RX4, RE3, RZ3, and RX3S. Unless I'm horribly mistaken?

Charles.

wheelbender6 · 04-26-2022, 12:04 PM

Any updates on the SG400, CC? Sounds like you have tamed the rear end.

ChopperCharles · 04-27-2022, 01:50 PM

The 520 version of the NC450 sprocket does indeed fit. I installed it last night and will take it for a test run today.

Charles.

ChopperCharles · 04-28-2022, 09:52 AM

With a 13T front sprocket, my revs match up almost exactly with my speed in 6th gear. 80mph is 8000rpm. However extensive testing has concluded the SG400 has a hard rev limit at 9500 rpm. Not 10k rpm.This means my speed is limited to just over 94mph, at 9500 rpm, and then the rev limiter kicks in. 10k would give me the ton indicated.

The motor makes peak horsepower at 9000 rpm. Having the rev limiter kick on at 9500rpm seems artificially low. Most 500s I've ridden have the redline 1000-1500 rpm past the horsepower peak. That felt natural, you can feel the power start to drop off, and that's the signal to shift. The SG400/RE3 never drops power, it pulls hard until the rev limiter kicks in. I think the limiter is set artificially low.

I wonder how hard that is to change with some ecu tuning software...

Charles.

wheelbender6 · 04-29-2022, 06:07 AM

There was an article a few years back where a magazine modded a Yamaha SR400 to do the ton. I know it involved a Vetter fairing, but I have forgotten if they made changes to the ECU.
I searched for that article unsuccessfully this morning but I have a few more places that I can look for it, CC.

ChopperCharles · 05-02-2022, 11:59 AM

Latest changes to the SG400:

Rim tape came in, small grab handle installed, and I painted the new aluminum flyscreen to match the side covers.

Charles.

ChopperCharles · 05-05-2022, 11:15 AM

Here it is in the sun

This is a great all-around bike. Especially with the 13T countershaft sprocket. It's a rocket, it handles well (with aftermarket shocks), and I'm just having a blast commuting on it.

Charles

wheelbender6 · 05-22-2022, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

Having the rev limiter kick on at 9500rpm seems artificially low. Most 500s I've ridden have the redline 1000-1500 rpm past the horsepower peak. That felt natural, you can feel the power start to drop off, and that's the signal to shift. The SG400/RE3 never drops power, it pulls hard until the rev limiter kicks in. I think the limiter is set artificially low.

I wonder how hard that is to change with some ecu tuning software...

Charles.

I agree, CC. Both the Yamaha MT-03 and Kawasaki Versys 300x do the ton with significantly smaller engines. The SG400 will do the ton without that overly conservative rev limiter.

Doing the ton is not that important to me. Having some passing power while cruising at 70-75 mph is what I want the most.

ChopperCharles · 07-25-2022, 08:08 PM

So, anyone else noticing that CSC can't sell the Hayalon even at $3995? The Silver SG400s are all gone, there are some black left, but both colors of the hayalon are available and cheap right now. With shipping to the east coast and dealer fees the bike is $4905 out the door.

It's also interesting to see the SG400 has gone up in price. Mine was $5555 delivered. They're $5805 delivered now.

Charles.

wheelbender6 · 07-25-2022, 10:01 PM

That's wierd that the hayalons aren't selling like the SGs.
I don't think the average CSC buyer is too old to enjoy a naked street bike.

Falkon45 · 07-25-2022, 10:03 PM

Man, that's encroaching on, MT-03, z400, and 390 Duke prices. That may be the issue, honestly. I'm basing this on when I left the dealership with my rc390 back in 2018 for $60 over MSRP. The market has changed, tremendously though. My kid wanted a KTM 50 SX. The sales lady calculated the OTD price of $5900. The sticker was $4450. Lol

Had to break the little ones heart that day

ChopperCharles · 07-26-2022, 11:32 AM

Right. I think the motor in the SG400 is great, but the styling sells the bike. The Hayalon isn't anything special to look at, and judging by past Zongshen suspension experience, the shock is probably poorly-suited to the bike. The Benelli 302S has the looks and makes the same horsepower with 80 fewer CCs, for right around the same price. AND it's got really good suspension from the factory. The KTM 390 and MT-03 both blow the Hayalon out of the water performance-wise, for just a few more bills.

I wish they had spent their efforts getting the Norton-powered 650 adventure bike from Zongshen instead of the Hayalon. They had trouble selling naked ADV bikes, naked sport bikes, and now a naked street fighter. People don't want them when better performance is to be had for very little more money. The TT250 and SG250 sell because they're cheap. The SG400 sells because there's nothing else quite like it on the market, and probably won't be from the Japanese makers. It fills a niche that's currently not filled by anything else. The Hayalon tries to compete in a market that's already saturated with better bikes.

The competition for the SG400 is the discontinued SR400, XSR700, Z600RS, Enfield 650s, and Triumph Bonnevilles. Of those, only the XSR700 and Z600RS are Neo Retro bikes. (Modern design interwoven with nostalgic elements), and they're priced at quite a bit more than the SG400. The rest are retro through and through. There's no modern design, instead they're a current take on 1970s design and style, with better components and EFI.

So the SG400 is a bit of a stand out. I was seriously considering an Enfield 650 Interceptor as my next bike, but I'm glad I bought the SG400 instead. The looks sold me on it, and riding it is even better.

Charles.

Falkon45 · 07-26-2022, 01:00 PM

Very true. The naked bike category blew up over the last few years. It has to perform well, as they all kinda look the same. Especially in the small CC category.

I agree with you on the 650. That category is growing larger, now that the 600cc supersport is dying. They're filling that with sportier 650 parallel and vtwin 650s (except Honda, and they're 4cyl 650)

04-26-2022, 12:04 PM	#34
wheelbender6 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,902	Any updates on the SG400, CC? Sounds like you have tamed the rear end. __________________ "Its not WHAT you ride; its THAT you ride"
	0

04-29-2022, 06:07 AM	#37
wheelbender6 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,902	There was an article a few years back where a magazine modded a Yamaha SR400 to do the ton. I know it involved a Vetter fairing, but I have forgotten if they made changes to the ECU. I searched for that article unsuccessfully this morning but I have a few more places that I can look for it, CC. __________________ "Its not WHAT you ride; its THAT you ride"
	0

07-25-2022, 10:01 PM	#42
wheelbender6 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,902	That's wierd that the hayalons aren't selling like the SGs. I don't think the average CSC buyer is too old to enjoy a naked street bike. __________________ "Its not WHAT you ride; its THAT you ride"
	0

03-31-2022, 11:49 AM	#31
Falkon45 Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Savannah, Ga Posts: 759	Do the Ton!!!! Seriously, seeing a chinese bike do a legitimate 100mph would make me happy.
	0

03-31-2022, 10:33 PM	#32
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	Also, at the bike also FEELS over-geared. Even if I don't make the ton with the SG400, it'll make my everyday riding full of shits and giggles Charles.
	1

03-31-2022, 11:20 PM	#33
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	Looks like a 520 version of the NC450 countershaft sprocket fits. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002100495051.html Same 14 teeth, and supposed to fit the RX4, RE3, RZ3, and RX3S. Unless I'm horribly mistaken? Charles.
	1

04-27-2022, 01:50 PM	#35
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	The 520 version of the NC450 sprocket does indeed fit. I installed it last night and will take it for a test run today. Charles.
	0

04-28-2022, 09:52 AM	#36
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	With a 13T front sprocket, my revs match up almost exactly with my speed in 6th gear. 80mph is 8000rpm. However extensive testing has concluded the SG400 has a hard rev limit at 9500 rpm. Not 10k rpm.This means my speed is limited to just over 94mph, at 9500 rpm, and then the rev limiter kicks in. 10k would give me the ton indicated. The motor makes peak horsepower at 9000 rpm. Having the rev limiter kick on at 9500rpm seems artificially low. Most 500s I've ridden have the redline 1000-1500 rpm past the horsepower peak. That felt natural, you can feel the power start to drop off, and that's the signal to shift. The SG400/RE3 never drops power, it pulls hard until the rev limiter kicks in. I think the limiter is set artificially low. I wonder how hard that is to change with some ecu tuning software... Charles.
	2

05-02-2022, 11:59 AM	#38
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	Latest changes to the SG400: Rim tape came in, small grab handle installed, and I painted the new aluminum flyscreen to match the side covers. Charles.
	3

05-05-2022, 11:15 AM	#39
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	Here it is in the sun This is a great all-around bike. Especially with the 13T countershaft sprocket. It's a rocket, it handles well (with aftermarket shocks), and I'm just having a blast commuting on it. Charles
	1

07-25-2022, 08:08 PM	#41
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	So, anyone else noticing that CSC can't sell the Hayalon even at $3995? The Silver SG400s are all gone, there are some black left, but both colors of the hayalon are available and cheap right now. With shipping to the east coast and dealer fees the bike is $4905 out the door. It's also interesting to see the SG400 has gone up in price. Mine was $5555 delivered. They're $5805 delivered now. Charles.
	1

07-25-2022, 10:03 PM	#43
Falkon45 Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Savannah, Ga Posts: 759	Man, that's encroaching on, MT-03, z400, and 390 Duke prices. That may be the issue, honestly. I'm basing this on when I left the dealership with my rc390 back in 2018 for $60 over MSRP. The market has changed, tremendously though. My kid wanted a KTM 50 SX. The sales lady calculated the OTD price of $5900. The sticker was $4450. Lol Had to break the little ones heart that day
	0

07-26-2022, 11:32 AM	#44
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	Right. I think the motor in the SG400 is great, but the styling sells the bike. The Hayalon isn't anything special to look at, and judging by past Zongshen suspension experience, the shock is probably poorly-suited to the bike. The Benelli 302S has the looks and makes the same horsepower with 80 fewer CCs, for right around the same price. AND it's got really good suspension from the factory. The KTM 390 and MT-03 both blow the Hayalon out of the water performance-wise, for just a few more bills. I wish they had spent their efforts getting the Norton-powered 650 adventure bike from Zongshen instead of the Hayalon. They had trouble selling naked ADV bikes, naked sport bikes, and now a naked street fighter. People don't want them when better performance is to be had for very little more money. The TT250 and SG250 sell because they're cheap. The SG400 sells because there's nothing else quite like it on the market, and probably won't be from the Japanese makers. It fills a niche that's currently not filled by anything else. The Hayalon tries to compete in a market that's already saturated with better bikes. The competition for the SG400 is the discontinued SR400, XSR700, Z600RS, Enfield 650s, and Triumph Bonnevilles. Of those, only the XSR700 and Z600RS are Neo Retro bikes. (Modern design interwoven with nostalgic elements), and they're priced at quite a bit more than the SG400. The rest are retro through and through. There's no modern design, instead they're a current take on 1970s design and style, with better components and EFI. So the SG400 is a bit of a stand out. I was seriously considering an Enfield 650 Interceptor as my next bike, but I'm glad I bought the SG400 instead. The looks sold me on it, and riding it is even better. Charles.
	1

07-26-2022, 01:00 PM	#45
Falkon45 Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Savannah, Ga Posts: 759	Very true. The naked bike category blew up over the last few years. It has to perform well, as they all kinda look the same. Especially in the small CC category. I agree with you on the 650. That category is growing larger, now that the 600cc supersport is dying. They're filling that with sportier 650 parallel and vtwin 650s (except Honda, and they're 4cyl 650)
	0