Oil Contaminant Separator (OCS) Orientation: The Official Word - Page 3

rjmorel · 05-04-2016, 03:47 PM

I flipped mine around also and saw the kinky hose. I can push the kink of hose together about 1/8" just by pushing down on the top of the kink so I know it's not kinked flat shut. I will ride it a few weeks and see how it goes and flip it back if something undesirable happens. rj

detours · 05-09-2016, 01:56 AM

Joe Berk posted some interesting information about the OCS in this CSC blog post ...

http://californiascooterco.com/blog/?p=21317

He recently changed his OCS to the official orientation and has gotten no liquid in the tube like he used to.

I'm interested in his results because they were the opposite of mine. I wonder if his results will be consistent over time and if he is certain his catch tube is well sealed at the bottom. many people think they aren't collecting fluid because it leaks out around the plug.

I tested three scenarios last year with the OCS, and the unofficial position collected the least amount of fluid.

My test conditions:

Clean and sand the bottom cap to ensure a good seal.
Take the same route to work (about 40 miles round trip).
Maintain approximately the same speed during each commute. mixed city and highway from 35 mph to 60 mph.
Travel at approximately the same time and temperatures.

My results:

Official position (cup-shaped filter open at the top) -> about 3/4 filled.
Official position with filter wall drilled through -> almost full.
Unofficial position (cup-shaped filter open at the bottom) -> about 1/2 full.

My conclusions:

With two filter surfaces (side and top) in the unofficial position, I collected the least fluid. With one filter wall (side only, open at top), I collected some fluid. With no filter wall (drilled through), I collected the most fluid.

My data indicates an inverse relationship between the amount of filter material in the OCS and the amount of fluid collected. Spud theorized that the reduced filter material from drilling a hole in the media increases the speed of the gases from the crankcase, lowering vapor pressure and increasing condensation ... which would explain why the tube fills faster with less filter media in the way.

Increasing the amount of filter media, by passing crankcase gases through two filter walls in the unofficial orientation, slows down the vapor. This raises vapor pressure, reduces condensation and sends more fuel vapor to the air intake to be burned during combustion ... leaving less liquid in the catch tube.

SpudRider · 05-09-2016, 02:30 AM

I agree with you completely, amigo.

I suspect the plug is leaking on Joe's bike. If he seals the plug and keeps checking for an extended period of time, I'm sure he will see the same results as you.

You followed a scientific approach, and tried to keep all variables the same, except for the orientation of the OCS.

No one else has followed your disciplined, scientific method of examining this issue.

Incidentally, RJMorel has also verified your results.

http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....5&postcount=57

keithmaine · 05-09-2016, 10:32 AM

detours

I would just like to

for all the testing and reporting back with great information. It is guys like you, Spud and several others that make this forum such an asset.

AdventureDad · 05-09-2016, 10:54 AM

There is an interesting post on ADV rider on the RX3 thread about this, and something for everyone to watch out for... seems his hoses to the seperator gave up the ghost due to becoming hard and brittle. He also modified it with initial major improvement.

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...#post-29372699

detours · 05-09-2016, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdventureDad

There is an interesting post on ADV rider on the RX3 thread about this, and something for everyone to watch out for... seems his hoses to the seperator gave up the ghost due to becoming hard and brittle. He also modified it with initial major improvement.

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...#post-29372699

Very interesting. I'll have to check my OCS hoses for damage too.

I've considered a straighter shot to the airbox. On the one hand, fuel and water condensation could drip back into the crankcase. On the other hand, on long runs where the crankcase stays hot, fuel and water vapor will be continuously drawn into the airbox. Pros and cons either way.

detours · 05-09-2016, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpudRider

I agree with you completely, amigo.

I suspect the plug is leaking on Joe's bike. If he seals the plug and keeps checking for an extended period of time, I'm sure he will see the same results as you.

You followed a scientific approach, and tried to keep all variables the same, except for the orientation of the OCS.

No one else has followed your disciplined, scientific method of examining this issue.

Incidentally, RJMorel has also verified your results.

http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....5&postcount=57

Thanks, but my test really only determines which method collects more fluid in the tube ... Not how efficiently vapor is scavenged or how much vapor makes it to the airbox without condensing. It's possible that the unofficial 'upside down' position blocks airflow and leaves more fuel in the oil. A systematic oil test with the OCS in each position would tell us for sure.

But I'm not sure it matters. Of course I don't want fuel in my oil, but as far as the environment goes, less fuel in the tube means less poured on the ground. The rest is either burned in combustion or recycled in my regular oil changes before it can damage my engine.

SpudRider · 05-09-2016, 01:00 PM

I have never changed the orientation of my OCS since I received it from CSC. As with many other RX3 bikes, my OCS was installed in the "unoffical" orientation from the factory. I'm pleased to report my used engine oil is always in excellent condition.

rjmorel · 05-09-2016, 01:17 PM

My hose has cracks on the outside of it that showed up when I flipped the osc last week also.

I was watching a MX race on TV this weekend and the announcer was pointing out the steam coming out of the bikes breather hose , looked like a cappuccino machine so much was coming out from the hot motors. They showed several bikes doing this. I think they would of filled up the tube in 1 race.

SpudRider · 05-09-2016, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keithmaine

detours

I would just like to

for all the testing and reporting back with great information. It is guys like you, Spud and several others that make this forum such an asset.

Thank you, Keith.

We appreciate having helpful, polite members such as yourself, who contribute knowledge to this forum.

Unfortunately, we occasionally encounter people who eagerly gather information from others without acknowledging the source, yet they contribute little or nothing themselves. Instead, they insist on starting arguments, and insulting others. Needless to say, we are fortunate when these people leave, either voluntarily, or involuntarily.

Lee R · 05-09-2016, 02:28 PM

I just flipped my OCS back to the "official" position which was the way it came from the factory, the hose was still in good shape after 1000 miles but I'll continue checking for cracks as it may be fuel vapor/fuel sensitive.

It'll be interesting to see if the tube still fills after the bikes had a bit more mileage. I have another oil change at 2000 miles and I'm getting the oil analyzed again to see if it's still got an abnormal amount of fuel in it.

detours · 05-09-2016, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee R

I just flipped my OCS back to the "official" position which was the way it came from the factory, the hose was still in good shape after 1000 miles but I'll continue checking for cracks as it may be fuel vapor/fuel sensitive.

It'll be interesting to see if the tube still fills after the bikes had a bit more mileage. I have another oil change at 2000 miles and I'm getting the oil analyzed again to see if it's still got an abnormal amount of fuel in it.

Hey Lee, I found your oil analysis in the other thread, and it shows 4.5% fuel content. Was that your bike's first oil change? And was your OCS in the official position for that oil change interval?

Lee R · 05-09-2016, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detours

Hey Lee, I found your oil analysis in the other thread, and it shows 4.5% fuel content. Was that your bike's first oil change? And was your OCS in the official position for that oil change interval?

That was the second oil change, oil had 500 miles on the sample between mileage 500-1000. OCS was in "official" position at that time, I flipped it @ 1000 miles. Both the initial and second oil change smelled strongly of fuel.

I spoke to Gerry about it while I was in California in person and he said it's normal and should be OK after break in. I'll be sending another sample to be sure at the 2000 mile mark this week.

pyoungbl · 05-09-2016, 04:35 PM

Just a thought...as the piston rises and falls the crankcase goes through a pressure/partial vacuum cycle twice for every time the plug fires. Now, that's only 249cc moving around but it's still pumping/sucking really quickly. I'm wondering if the OCS has a secondary purpose, to dampen these waves as any blowby heads to the airbox. This should not be a steady push of gas unless the rings are shot, more like the vibration you get from the head of a drum. If I'm correct the water/fuel/oil particles get stripped on each push/suck, falling into the clear tube. I still do not understand why we get so much water in the tube but then, I did not do good in college chemistry either.

Peter Y.

RX3James · 05-10-2016, 10:50 PM

I've been reading a lot about the orientation of the OCS lately. So today I decided to take a look at mine. As you can see it's not in the correct position. Only one time did I ever notice any fluid build up in the tube and it was when I was doing the break in oil change. It is pretty obvious with the discoloration of the tube that there has been fluid going through the tube for some time. I suspect its not building up in the tube because the plug isn't exactly water tight. So here's the real question..... I have not noticed any real issue with the bike. It runs and rides just fine. I think now that I've finally broken 2000 miles on it that I've worked out most of the bugs. So should I even worry about he orientation? Should I even spend the 5 minutes to flip it? What is it going to hurt if I just let it roll like it is? If there is no real benefit then I think I'm going to just leave it be. What do you guys and gals think?

Ride safe friends!

05-04-2016, 03:47 PM	#31
rjmorel Join Date: May 2007 Location: Warshington Posts: 928	I flipped mine around also and saw the kinky hose. I can push the kink of hose together about 1/8" just by pushing down on the top of the kink so I know it's not kinked flat shut. I will ride it a few weeks and see how it goes and flip it back if something undesirable happens. rj __________________ Live Zong, and Prosper
	1

05-09-2016, 01:56 AM	#32
detours Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Arvada, CO Posts: 1,004	Joe Berk posted some interesting information about the OCS in this CSC blog post ... http://californiascooterco.com/blog/?p=21317 He recently changed his OCS to the official orientation and has gotten no liquid in the tube like he used to. I'm interested in his results because they were the opposite of mine. I wonder if his results will be consistent over time and if he is certain his catch tube is well sealed at the bottom. many people think they aren't collecting fluid because it leaks out around the plug. I tested three scenarios last year with the OCS, and the unofficial position collected the least amount of fluid. My test conditions: Clean and sand the bottom cap to ensure a good seal. Take the same route to work (about 40 miles round trip). Maintain approximately the same speed during each commute. mixed city and highway from 35 mph to 60 mph. Travel at approximately the same time and temperatures. My results: Official position (cup-shaped filter open at the top) -> about 3/4 filled. Official position with filter wall drilled through -> almost full. Unofficial position (cup-shaped filter open at the bottom) -> about 1/2 full. My conclusions: With two filter surfaces (side and top) in the unofficial position, I collected the least fluid. With one filter wall (side only, open at top), I collected some fluid. With no filter wall (drilled through), I collected the most fluid. My data indicates an inverse relationship between the amount of filter material in the OCS and the amount of fluid collected. Spud theorized that the reduced filter material from drilling a hole in the media increases the speed of the gases from the crankcase, lowering vapor pressure and increasing condensation ... which would explain why the tube fills faster with less filter media in the way. Increasing the amount of filter media, by passing crankcase gases through two filter walls in the unofficial orientation, slows down the vapor. This raises vapor pressure, reduces condensation and sends more fuel vapor to the air intake to be burned during combustion ... leaving less liquid in the catch tube. __________________ Red 5 standing by! 2015 CSC red RX3 with 19" front wheel, Shinko 804/805, skid plate, tall seat, 13T/45T sprockets, progressive shock, Winyoochanok windshield, GENSSI LED headlight, SW-Motech tankbag, Shorai Lithium battery 2014 Ural Patrol Last edited by detours; 05-09-2016 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Clarity
	7

05-09-2016, 02:30 AM	#33
SpudRider Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 25,054	I agree with you completely, amigo. I suspect the plug is leaking on Joe's bike. If he seals the plug and keeps checking for an extended period of time, I'm sure he will see the same results as you. You followed a scientific approach, and tried to keep all variables the same, except for the orientation of the OCS. No one else has followed your disciplined, scientific method of examining this issue. Incidentally, RJMorel has also verified your results. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....5&postcount=57 __________________ Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894
	0

05-09-2016, 10:32 AM	#34
keithmaine Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: White Mtns. NH Posts: 488	detours I would just like to for all the testing and reporting back with great information. It is guys like you, Spud and several others that make this forum such an asset. __________________ 2016 Versys 650 LT, 2015 RX3 Red, 2011 Ural GearUp,
	1

05-09-2016, 01:00 PM	#38
SpudRider Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 25,054	I have never changed the orientation of my OCS since I received it from CSC. As with many other RX3 bikes, my OCS was installed in the "unoffical" orientation from the factory. I'm pleased to report my used engine oil is always in excellent condition. __________________ Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894
	1

05-09-2016, 10:54 AM	#35
AdventureDad Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: South Mississippi Posts: 253	There is an interesting post on ADV rider on the RX3 thread about this, and something for everyone to watch out for... seems his hoses to the seperator gave up the ghost due to becoming hard and brittle. He also modified it with initial major improvement. http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...#post-29372699
	0

05-09-2016, 01:17 PM	#39
rjmorel Join Date: May 2007 Location: Warshington Posts: 928	My hose has cracks on the outside of it that showed up when I flipped the osc last week also. I was watching a MX race on TV this weekend and the announcer was pointing out the steam coming out of the bikes breather hose , looked like a cappuccino machine so much was coming out from the hot motors. They showed several bikes doing this. I think they would of filled up the tube in 1 race. __________________ Live Zong, and Prosper
	0

05-09-2016, 02:28 PM	#41
Lee R Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 343	I just flipped my OCS back to the "official" position which was the way it came from the factory, the hose was still in good shape after 1000 miles but I'll continue checking for cracks as it may be fuel vapor/fuel sensitive. It'll be interesting to see if the tube still fills after the bikes had a bit more mileage. I have another oil change at 2000 miles and I'm getting the oil analyzed again to see if it's still got an abnormal amount of fuel in it.
	1

05-09-2016, 04:35 PM	#44
pyoungbl Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA Posts: 632	Just a thought...as the piston rises and falls the crankcase goes through a pressure/partial vacuum cycle twice for every time the plug fires. Now, that's only 249cc moving around but it's still pumping/sucking really quickly. I'm wondering if the OCS has a secondary purpose, to dampen these waves as any blowby heads to the airbox. This should not be a steady push of gas unless the rings are shot, more like the vibration you get from the head of a drum. If I'm correct the water/fuel/oil particles get stripped on each push/suck, falling into the clear tube. I still do not understand why we get so much water in the tube but then, I did not do good in college chemistry either. Peter Y.
	0