Warning! Do not take ibuprofen!

[bigdano711]

In the end, don't doctors just prescribe blood thinners for heart attacks? Basically?

It's one thing to look at medicine and realize it's a racket. That's great. The food industry? Racket. Any kind of insurance? Racket. Legal system? Racket. Education? Racket. Everything is a freakin' racket.

This is the end result of capitalism. Hey, it was great....for a very few of us, put most of us in the poor house. Can we come to the conclusion that we gave capitalism a try, and it mostly sucked? I'm not advocating communism, just something other than capitalism.

[GypsyR]

I think the honking great scar my dad wore in the center of his chest for twenty years was the result of a bit more than blood thinners. You guys are kind of weirder than I thought. (Not that that is bad thing.)

[2LZ]

Yep. Heart and cancer patient here and I'm alive because of my fine and talented medical staff. I have all the faith in the world in my medical team. They know far more then me.
Worried about you Tom. Clogged arteries, especially if it's genetic like my family tree, don't just go away. Be careful, my friend.

[GypsyR]

I had to look up "naturopath". Interesting. Apparently there are zero qualifications, standards, or licenses required to be one. So I can say I am a naturopath or herbalist and BAM! I am one. Just like that.

Versus the four years of college, four years of med school, and at least three years of residency required before one is licensed to practice in the science of medicine.

Fun thing about scientific stuff, it either works or doesn't. No need for us to believe or have faith in it one way or the other. That doesn't affect the results.
Just throwing in how I personally look at things. I don't expect everyone to think about things the way I do. The world would be terribly boring if it were that way.

[Fast_Freddy]

Aspirin. If you think you're having a heart attack, take some aspirin and see a doctor immediately. Regardless of your feelings about western medicine, there are many health issues that it can treat very effectively. Stents add years to people's lives, as can bypass surgery.

Instead of oral NSAIDs like ibuprofen, consider diclofenac gel (Voltaren) for chronic joint pain.

[TominMO]

Originally Posted by bigdano711

I agree with just about everything, especially the not taking pills stuff. I don't live the healthiest or eat the healthiest, but I am absolutely not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of a pro-longed, painful death, but death itself? Nope. We all have an expiration date. Preventable? To a degree. Inevitable? Absolutely.

Agreed! What we do or don't do can affect the expiration date. But yeah, inevitable.
Even during the heart attack I was not all that concerned. While I would love to hang around a few more decades, I'm not afraid of death, and was accepting that two days ago might be the day. Had I had a PANIC ATTACK and called 911, I'd probably now have a medical bill in the many thousands, between the EMTs, hospital care and testing. And for nothing, as it turned out.

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Aspirin. If you think you're having a heart attack, take some aspirin and see a doctor immediately. Regardless of your feelings about western medicine, there are many health issues that it can treat very effectively. Stents add years to people's lives, as can bypass surgery.

Aspirin is good, and even better is a few drops of cayenne extract, from the peppers. Burns like crazy, but my health store lady (70 YO looks like 55, been in this business forever) says it will stop a heart attack in seconds. I trust her like Thumper trusts his doctor. You stop the burning by eating a cracker, or something a little greasy like chocolate or a tortilla.

As far as stents and bypassing surgery, my point is that if people would just eat healthy (and doctors were focused on nutrition instead of symptom management), there would be no need for stents or surgery. Or almost all medications.

Guys let's stay away from politics from now on. Hate to get this thread deleted.

[bigdano711]

Joe Rogan recently did a podcast with a guy named Gary Brecka. That's how I learned about the cyanocobalamin. I like the dude because he is a human biologist, NOT a doctor. What he had to say made a lot of sense. He focuses a lot on diet and he has a test that will tell you what your body is deficient in and recommend specific supplements targeting those deficiencies.


I started late in the year, but I have been "grounding" at first light, taking off my shirt and getting sun and doing some simple breathing exercises. Grounding is exactly as it sounds; bare feet to bare earth or grass and literally grounding the electrical current running through our bodies. Only a few days and I can tell it's making a difference. Just wish the temps were above freezing in the mornings.

[Sport Rider]

Originally Posted by bigdano711

J....He focuses a lot on diet and he has a test that will tell you what your body is deficient in and recommend specific supplements targeting those deficiencies.......

you think the health/supplement industry isn't just as much a "racket" as the medical industry? Capitalism at it's best. "There's a sucker born every minute". It sounds to me like that guy is trying to sell people his "test", and I bet he has his hand in the pie for the supplements he recommends. I don't trust people who aren't trained any more than you probably trust doctors. At least he's a biologist, but I bet that degree in itself doesn't pay all the bills.

[TominMO]

Originally Posted by Sport Rider

you think the health/supplement industry isn't just as much a "racket" as the medical industry? Capitalism at it's best. "There's a sucker born every minute". It sounds to me like that guy is trying to sell people his "test", and I bet he has his hand in the pie for the supplements he recommends. I don't trust people who aren't trained any more than you probably trust doctors. At least he's a biologist, but I bet that degree in itself doesn't pay all the bills.

While health food stores are also in the capitalist system, I have found that the people who work in these stores actually seem to care about people. Not something you can say about the Big Pharma-dominated US medical system. Medical school is expensive, and doctors are forced to toe the pharmacological line to stay in the system that employs them, to get those loans paid off. Expensive drugs, tests and surgery should not be the first line of defense against disease. It should be the universal promotion in schools and the doctor's office of healthy eating habits and exercise. Then when all else fails, the solutions that they currently do first. That would be a system worthy of respect.

Our current medical system is designed to keep you addicted to its services--treat the symptoms--not to make people whole and healthy. They are against any competing type of care which takes away their money and power.

I'm betting that the supplement industry "racket" as you call it will do much more for me, and far cheaper and more conveniently, than the Medical Establishment. Again, we shall see.

[bogieboy]

While i am an anti docter kind of guy, if not for western.medicine i wouldnt know i am leiden factor v, and would be dead over 10 yrs ago now.... i am a 3 time survivor of bilateral pulmonary emboli... and that only because of blood thinners.... my blood has a genetic predisposition to clotting, which means i am at major risk for heart attack, stroke or PEs.... if not for western medicine i would have died when i got the first round...

Probably not a bad idea to check in with a doctor... clot problems (like a heart attack) are not something to mess with at all.....

[TominMO]

Originally Posted by bogieboy

While i am an anti docter kind of guy, if not for western.medicine i wouldnt know i am leiden factor v, and would be dead over 10 yrs ago now.... i am a 3 time survivor of bilateral pulmonary emboli... and that only because of blood thinners.... my blood has a genetic predisposition to clotting, which means i am at major risk for heart attack, stroke or PEs.... if not for western medicine i would have died when i got the first round...

Probably not a bad idea to check in with a doctor... clot problems (like a heart attack) are not something to mess with at all.....

Not disagreeing with you or how you got your problem fixed. I will point out two things:
1. There is such a thing as epigenetics. This means that many health conditions lie dormant until triggered by poor nutrition (junk food, smoking, booze, other recreational drugs). If people didn't do those, they would not get medical conditions whose symptoms the medical establishment makes a lot of money from treating. Both good and poor health is (IMO) about 95% attributable to what we consume.
2. A good nutritionist and herbal wellness person could probably suggest natural remedies--not prescribing medication you understand, that would be illegal. More like a "try this, it works great for lots of people" situation. Just eating mostly healthy and taking a high quality vitamin/mineral formulation will do a lot. Then you supplement based on your particular situation.

3. Bonus point. The fact is that I am making a conscious decision to have nothing to do with the medical establishment (unless I get hit by a bus while crossing the street and texting, for example). I despise the corrupt racket that it is. While I'd like to live a long healthy life, I'll take health quality over longevity. Whatever anyone's religious beliefs are, or lack thereof, we all will die and it makes a lot of sense to come to terms with that.
I assure you that there are alternatives to the medical establishment that have high integrity.

Cue the Frank Sinatra song. You know which one.

[bogieboy]

Originally Posted by TominMO

Not disagreeing with you or how you got your problem fixed. I will point out two things:
1. There is such a thing as epigenetics. This means that many health conditions lie dormant until triggered by poor nutrition (junk food, smoking, booze, other recreational drugs). If people didn't do those, they would not get medical conditions whose symptoms the medical establishment makes a lot of money from treating. Both good and poor health is (IMO) about 95% attributable to what we consume.
2. A good nutritionist and herbal wellness person could probably suggest natural remedies--not prescribing medication you understand, that would be illegal. More like a "try this, it works great for lots of people" situation. Just eating mostly healthy and taking a high quality vitamin/mineral formulation will do a lot. Then you supplement based on your particular situation.

3. Bonus point. The fact is that I am making a conscious decision to have nothing to do with the medical establishment (unless I get hit by a bus while crossing the street and texting, for example). I despise the corrupt racket that it is. While I'd like to live a long healthy life, I'll take health quality over longevity. Whatever anyone's religious beliefs are, or lack thereof, we all will die and it makes a lot of sense to come to terms with that.
I assure you that there are alternatives to the medical establishment that have high integrity.

Cue the Frank Sinatra song. You know which one.

Not trying to argue or anything as i agree, 90% of americas health issues could be solved witha good diet and excersize....LOL however my case? First bout of PE was while training for a cross country bike ride...LOL talk about good eating and plenty of excersize....sometimes is just flat out (pardon the obvious pun here) bad blood lines....

[Bikenut]

I read this discussion and now I will toss in my 2 cents..... like it or don't... doesn't matter because I'm speaking for me and me alone.

Long ago I decided that since death was inevitable I only had two choices.. I could worry about my health taking great care of my body with eating healthy, exercising regularly, and avoiding any risky activities. Then one day I would die.

Or I could enjoy life with lots of great tasting food indulging in alcohol sometimes, lots of sex, riding my motorcycles, playing with my cars, and just actually living life without worrying about how long I might... or might not... live. And then one day I would die.

Well, I'm 75 years old and I'm still alive thanks to doctors using stents and a pacemaker. I've loved, been loved, still love deeply and am loved and still (thanks to doctors using modern surgical techniques) making love. I have, and still do, eat and drink what the hell ever I want when I want. I will have a drink occasionally and maybe more at home if I want. I ride sport bikes a bit too fast and take my cars on those same twisty roads often playing close to the edge. And one day I will die.

To each his own but when I do die I will know that........ I actually LIVED before I died.

[2LZ]

Croaked three times in one evening. Most peaceful place I've ever been. Not in a hurry to return because I know it's inevitable, and I still have shit to do here. As Bikernut says, it's all about living.

[TominMO]

@ Bikenut. I respect your decision because you made it consciously. Not just muddling through life like most people do. It's your life to live.