Vader stalls when pushed - Page 2

4T_Goblin · 11-14-2021, 01:05 PM

Here is a short version
https://youtube.com/shorts/p4Wb7tKB930?feature=share

Here is a longer version with bonus footage of nasty oil from the bottom valve cover

dirtbkr188 · 11-14-2021, 02:37 PM

I have two things I'd like to mention...

1. I have to agree with Jeffrey and what he stated above, The lever for the fuel enrichener si supposed to be UP when the plunger is closed. Pushing the lever DOWN opens the plunger, allowing extra fuel to enter during a cold start. The pic below shows what I mean.

2. I also have to agree with everyone who questioned why you went from a #35 pilot jet to a #15, when there are 7 jet sizes in between the #35 and the #15 pilot jets. You cannot jet a carb with such drastic, radical jet size changes; usually it puts the carb so far out of whack that you can't dial it in. Here is the size chart for the VM22/210 pilot jets.

Just my 2¢...

4T_Goblin · 11-14-2021, 03:35 PM

Ok then I definitely had the thing running properly thinking that I had the choke on.

I went to 15 because I read others having similar issues but that's null now because I've been doing it wrong by missing the direction on the choke

So that would explain the extra fuel in the cylinder, dumping gas in with the choke open.

In going to try again. Starting with 35 pilot

david3921 · 11-15-2021, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtbkr188

I have two things I'd like to mention...

1. I have to agree with Jeffrey and what he stated above, The lever for the fuel enrichener si supposed to be UP when the plunger is closed. Pushing the lever DOWN opens the plunger, allowing extra fuel to enter during a cold start. The pic below shows what I mean.

2. I also have to agree with everyone who questioned why you went from a #35 pilot jet to a #15, when there are 7 jet sizes in between the #35 and the #15 pilot jets. You cannot jet a carb with such drastic, radical jet size changes; usually it puts the carb so far out of whack that you can't dial it in. Here is the size chart for the VM22/210 pilot jets.

Just my 2¢...

The difference of the chokes between the standard carb and this one is pretty important news. I would have assumed (as 4T probably did) that carbs would be standardized in regard to chokes. Thanks for the info.

dirtbkr188 · 11-14-2021, 05:23 PM

May I suggest a baseline setting to start from? With the #100 main and #35 pilot jet, try setting the air screw OUT 1.5 turns from seated, then ride the bike to see what it does. With an air screw (like you have) turning it IN richens the mixture, make the adjustments a 1/4-turn at a time, and ride the bike. If it stumbles or sputters, try another 1/4-turn IN and test ride. If it blubbers, make the 1/4-turn adjustment the opposite way (OUT) to lean the mixture.
The air screw controls from idle to 1/4-throttle, the jet needle controls from 1/4 to 3/4-throttle, and the main jet is from 3/4 to full throttle...BUT they overlap each other, that's why you have to ride the bike after an adjustment to see what it does throughout the whole throttle range.
If you get to within a 1/4-turn from having the air screw seated, then you need to go up one size on the pilot jet, and if you get to 2-3/4-turns OUT, you need to go one size down on the pilot jet.

4T_Goblin · 11-14-2021, 06:11 PM

Thank you everyone for your interest, time, and good suggestions. Its usually something simple, and in this case it was too. I was trying to tune the bike with the choke on, or enrichment plunger open. I thought the lever was the other way, so I was doomed from the start.

I went back in with AF at base 1.5 out, 105 main, 30 pilot, float bowl 26mm, valves adjusted to .003" intake and .005" exhaust, new gasket at the intake/head and spacer at the intake/carb that i thought i had lost. I tested the float valve by letting gas through and gently closing the float, effectively stopping the flow.

I had good idle off the rip, leaning high revs with choke on, good idle with choke off. It takes a little bit of throttle on start up, no problem.

It is amazing what some food and sleep will do for troubleshooting.

there is some tinking now from the tappets so ill go back and maybe do .004" on the exhaust and check both.

I had good idle already yesterday but i missed it thinking it was idling well with choke on. oops.

the bike drove around the block, it handled it well. It does idle a little low when pulling up to a stop and shifting down to 1st, a little throttle helped. it never died on me. There is a little bit of hesitation somewhere in the range but ill get to that another day. Plug chop to be done tomorrow, the sun went down and I had put everything away already.

dirtbkr188 · 11-15-2021, 08:09 AM

The Mikuni VM22-clone carb made in SE Asia has the "lever down - OFF" design, as seen here:

http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....48&postcount=1

4T_Goblin · 11-15-2021, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtbkr188

The Mikuni VM22-clone carb made in SE Asia has the "lever down - OFF" design, as seen here:

http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....48&postcount=1

Big shout out to dirtbkr188 and Jeffrey for the choke identification

I am glad that I bought a genuine carb, or as genuine i can tell

dirtbkr188 · 11-16-2021, 08:10 AM

Glad to see that you were able to get it sorted out and dialed in.

4T_Goblin · 11-22-2021, 08:34 AM

The bike runs great, got to 56mph this past weekend on some downhill action with a little twisty on it.

I'm still fine tuning but it's going great

dirtbkr188 · 11-22-2021, 02:45 PM

4T_Goblin · 11-27-2021, 09:59 AM

https://youtube.com/shorts/YLWKR58rA9I?feature=share

Here it is now. I may go up in pilot to 32.5. It acts weak after long runs or long riding in general. Could be getting too lean? I have to give it just a little throttle sometimes on long stops after long run.

Maybe needle to 5th, or I'll go up to 110 main. I need to get some audio off it during a ride. To hear the Crack when I'm WOT and shifting from 3rd to 4th.

Gonna tighten the valves up some, my top speed is still only 53 to 56 on downhills.

4T_Goblin · 11-14-2021, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffrey

It looks like you have the fuel enrichment lever or choke on. Lever down is on lever up is off. Thats what I could see in your video. But I could be wrong.

In this video it is down, or off. It's a short throw lever. Barely moves up when it's up.

The bike did go back and forth between running with choke on and not when off, and running with no choke only, as I was changing jets

11-14-2021, 01:05 PM	#1
4T_Goblin Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 239	Here is a short version https://youtube.com/shorts/p4Wb7tKB930?feature=share Here is a longer version with bonus footage of nasty oil from the bottom valve cover
	0

11-14-2021, 02:37 PM	#2
dirtbkr188 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 512	I have two things I'd like to mention... 1. I have to agree with Jeffrey and what he stated above, The lever for the fuel enrichener si supposed to be UP when the plunger is closed. Pushing the lever DOWN opens the plunger, allowing extra fuel to enter during a cold start. The pic below shows what I mean. 2. I also have to agree with everyone who questioned why you went from a #35 pilot jet to a #15, when there are 7 jet sizes in between the #35 and the #15 pilot jets. You cannot jet a carb with such drastic, radical jet size changes; usually it puts the carb so far out of whack that you can't dial it in. Here is the size chart for the VM22/210 pilot jets. Just my 2¢...
	2

11-14-2021, 03:35 PM	#3
4T_Goblin Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 239	Ok then I definitely had the thing running properly thinking that I had the choke on. I went to 15 because I read others having similar issues but that's null now because I've been doing it wrong by missing the direction on the choke So that would explain the extra fuel in the cylinder, dumping gas in with the choke open. In going to try again. Starting with 35 pilot
	0

11-14-2021, 05:23 PM	#5
dirtbkr188 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 512	May I suggest a baseline setting to start from? With the #100 main and #35 pilot jet, try setting the air screw OUT 1.5 turns from seated, then ride the bike to see what it does. With an air screw (like you have) turning it IN richens the mixture, make the adjustments a 1/4-turn at a time, and ride the bike. If it stumbles or sputters, try another 1/4-turn IN and test ride. If it blubbers, make the 1/4-turn adjustment the opposite way (OUT) to lean the mixture. The air screw controls from idle to 1/4-throttle, the jet needle controls from 1/4 to 3/4-throttle, and the main jet is from 3/4 to full throttle...BUT they overlap each other, that's why you have to ride the bike after an adjustment to see what it does throughout the whole throttle range. If you get to within a 1/4-turn from having the air screw seated, then you need to go up one size on the pilot jet, and if you get to 2-3/4-turns OUT, you need to go one size down on the pilot jet.
	1

11-14-2021, 06:11 PM	#6
4T_Goblin Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 239	Thank you everyone for your interest, time, and good suggestions. Its usually something simple, and in this case it was too. I was trying to tune the bike with the choke on, or enrichment plunger open. I thought the lever was the other way, so I was doomed from the start. I went back in with AF at base 1.5 out, 105 main, 30 pilot, float bowl 26mm, valves adjusted to .003" intake and .005" exhaust, new gasket at the intake/head and spacer at the intake/carb that i thought i had lost. I tested the float valve by letting gas through and gently closing the float, effectively stopping the flow. I had good idle off the rip, leaning high revs with choke on, good idle with choke off. It takes a little bit of throttle on start up, no problem. It is amazing what some food and sleep will do for troubleshooting. there is some tinking now from the tappets so ill go back and maybe do .004" on the exhaust and check both. I had good idle already yesterday but i missed it thinking it was idling well with choke on. oops. the bike drove around the block, it handled it well. It does idle a little low when pulling up to a stop and shifting down to 1st, a little throttle helped. it never died on me. There is a little bit of hesitation somewhere in the range but ill get to that another day. Plug chop to be done tomorrow, the sun went down and I had put everything away already.
	2

11-15-2021, 08:09 AM	#7
dirtbkr188 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 512	The Mikuni VM22-clone carb made in SE Asia has the "lever down - OFF" design, as seen here: http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....48&postcount=1
	1

11-16-2021, 08:10 AM	#9
dirtbkr188 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 512	Glad to see that you were able to get it sorted out and dialed in.
	1

11-22-2021, 08:34 AM	#10
4T_Goblin Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 239	The bike runs great, got to 56mph this past weekend on some downhill action with a little twisty on it. I'm still fine tuning but it's going great
	2

11-22-2021, 02:45 PM	#11
dirtbkr188 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 512
	1

11-27-2021, 09:59 AM	#12
4T_Goblin Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 239	https://youtube.com/shorts/YLWKR58rA9I?feature=share Here it is now. I may go up in pilot to 32.5. It acts weak after long runs or long riding in general. Could be getting too lean? I have to give it just a little throttle sometimes on long stops after long run. Maybe needle to 5th, or I'll go up to 110 main. I need to get some audio off it during a ride. To hear the Crack when I'm WOT and shifting from 3rd to 4th. Gonna tighten the valves up some, my top speed is still only 53 to 56 on downhills.
	0