Oil cooler install

[BBOWL10]

Originally Posted by BBOWL10

JerryHawk250,
Did you pay direct to them with your credit card? I went through the whole set up process and they confirmed the order. There is a tab to click for payment but it is not a PayPal link but it looks similar to PayPal. When I click it, it immediately asks for my CC info when usually it would direct me to PayPal and then back to the merchant. I don't feel comfortable giving out my info to an offshore merchant. Seems fishy to me. Please advise. I also sent you a PM

I figured it out. You have to recharge your account with them from PayPal and then use the funds to pay for the actual order you placed. It still seems a little convoluted.

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by BBOWL10

I figured it out. You have to recharge your account with them from PayPal and then use the funds to pay for the actual order you placed. It still seems a little convoluted.

Glad you got it figured out.

[mvaldo]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

Yes I still have the kit installed and works well. I have the filter installed on the suction side which is the line that will run to the center of the adapter. But honestly I don't think it matters which one you put it on. Here's a thread where I installed an oil temperature gauge to monitor the temps. http://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=22409

Thank you JerryHawk250 . I just realized now that you answered my question. I really appreciate it. I didn’t check the forum for a long time. I installed the cooler, and I think it works (the radiator is hot). I will see this summer. Still the head cover and crank case of my motorbike become hot (but I think a little less).

mvaldo

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by mvaldo

Thank you JerryHawk250 . I just realized now that you answered my question. I really appreciate it. I didn’t check the forum for a long time. I installed the cooler, and I think it works (the radiator is hot). I will see this summer. Still the head cover and crank case of my motorbike become hot (but I think a little less).

mvaldo

The valve cover is going to be hot because it's an air cooled bike, oil flows through it, and the head is the hottest part of a bike. The engine will always feel hot, even with an oil cooler. The main purpose of the oil cooler is to prevent viscosity loss due to the engine oil getting too hot. This means the oil lasts longer and does its job better which results in longer internal parts life, up to and including the clutch.

[NzBrakelathes]

Your thoughts on this design from head?

[pete]

needs to be a full flow system...
but better than nothing..


.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

Your thoughts on this design from head?

It's simple and effective for most peoples needs. It cools the oil right before going to the hottest part of the engine, making it a decently effective method for cooling said engine and as a whole would contribute to lower overall operating temps.

As Pete said, it still is not as good as a total flow system that cools the oil off of the oil pump. This ensures that all parts of the engine receive oil that has been cooled.

I was originally going to run a dual cooler setup based on the pump system, but decided to actually change paths and run both. I do like the idea of cooling the oil once more right before it goes to the valves and cylinder head on my engine with its higher compression ratio.

My one real critique of either system is that the intended cooler placement on the down tube of the frame makes it interfere with the front fender. Many of us make our own cooler mount using a length of flat bar or L shaped steel or aluminum. so the coolers can be placed in the direct airflow to the side, and hidden by the tank plastics.

[NzBrakelathes]

I enquirers today about a clutch cover that has the oil cooler outlets like some of the OHC engines but..... can’t even custom make some
Kinda feel that is the better way and use a cooler and line setup that’s more common.

[JerryHawk250]

The oil coolers definitely work. I have a hard time getting temperatures above 140f right now with the temperatures in the 60's. Highest I seen were in the 170's on 90+ degree day and running it hard.

[mvaldo]

Originally Posted by Megadan

The valve cover is going to be hot because it's an air cooled bike, oil flows through it, and the head is the hottest part of a bike. The engine will always feel hot, even with an oil cooler. The main purpose of the oil cooler is to prevent viscosity loss due to the engine oil getting too hot. This means the oil lasts longer and does its job better which results in longer internal parts life, up to and including the clutch.

How many degrees do the valve cover, and the two crankcase covers reach on these engines, on the outside?


mvaldo

[upgasgas1224]

Originally Posted by mvaldo

How many degrees do the valve cover, and the two crankcase covers reach on these engines, on the outside?


mvaldo

for the tt250 basically the same thing as the hawk i was reading 210 degrees Fahrenheit i just ordered my oil cooler and am hopeing to get readings of 170-180 these bikes definitly run hot and should be liquid cooled but they arnt so the best way to keep them cool is doing an oil cooler add

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by mvaldo

How many degrees do the valve cover, and the two crankcase covers reach on these engines, on the outside?


mvaldo

He gave you an exact answer, but I can tell you that it is plenty hot enough to burn you, even riding on a cool day.

Even liquid cooled engines are still too hot to really touch after running. Oil is a lot less efficient at thermal transfer than water/coolant. The oil coolers main function is to help keep the oil at a stable operational temperature. As a side benefit, it also helps to keep the engine temps lower and a little more stable.

If you really want to go all-in to keep that oil at as stable of a temp. as possible, then you could always install a remote oil cooler thermostat. These are designed to bypass most of the oil flow back to the engine until it reaches 180-200 degrees (depending on manufacturer etc.). If you plan to ride in colder temps, then this is actually a good idea. I plan on installing one on my setup in the future when I install my second cooler.


The real balancing act is to keep the oil at a low enough temperature to not experience thermal breakdown - usually around 250 to 300 degrees, but also hot enough that condensation and water vapor from combustion will evaporate to help prevent the water from mixing with the oil and combustion byproducts from blow by (creating acids). This means that the sump oil temperature needs to reach at least 212 degrees.

In Jerry's case, it is quite possible that on cooler days his dual setup may actually be working too well, but the only way to know for sure would be for him to notice condensation mixed with his oil, which as of this point I don't believe he has. If that was the case, then that is where the previously mentioned thermostat would come into play.

Given how small the oil capacity is on these motors, and how hard they have to work, it is unlikely. They don't have the benefit of a water jacket taking away the majority of the heat from the cylinder, so the oil that gets splashed on to the cylinder walls and piston is going to see a lot more heat than a water cooled engine would under the same load.

[mvaldo]

Originally Posted by Megadan

He gave you an exact answer, but I can tell you that it is plenty hot enough to burn you, even riding on a cool day.

Even liquid cooled engines are still too hot to really touch after running. Oil is a lot less efficient at thermal transfer than water/coolant. The oil coolers main function is to help keep the oil at a stable operational temperature. As a side benefit, it also helps to keep the engine temps lower and a little more stable.

If you really want to go all-in to keep that oil at as stable of a temp. as possible, then you could always install a remote oil cooler thermostat. These are designed to bypass most of the oil flow back to the engine until it reaches 180-200 degrees (depending on manufacturer etc.). If you plan to ride in colder temps, then this is actually a good idea. I plan on installing one on my setup in the future when I install my second cooler.


The real balancing act is to keep the oil at a low enough temperature to not experience thermal breakdown - usually around 250 to 300 degrees, but also hot enough that condensation and water vapor from combustion will evaporate to help prevent the water from mixing with the oil and combustion byproducts from blow by (creating acids). This means that the sump oil temperature needs to reach at least 212 degrees.

In Jerry's case, it is quite possible that on cooler days his dual setup may actually be working too well, but the only way to know for sure would be for him to notice condensation mixed with his oil, which as of this point I don't believe he has. If that was the case, then that is where the previously mentioned thermostat would come into play.

Given how small the oil capacity is on these motors, and how hard they have to work, it is unlikely. They don't have the benefit of a water jacket taking away the majority of the heat from the cylinder, so the oil that gets splashed on to the cylinder walls and piston is going to see a lot more heat than a water cooled engine would under the same load.

I can see that you are using the same unit of measurement than I do.
Before installing the oil cooler, after 30 min. or riding I could not touch the valve cover and could not hold my hand for more than 3 seconds on the crank-case covers.
Now with the oil cooler, after 30 min of riding I can just hold my hand on the crank-case covers, and for less than 3 seconds on the valve cover, therefore I am happy with the oil cooler.

The last time I owned a motorbike was 25 year ago, therefore I can not remember how hot the engine would get. What surprised me was the heat of the crank-case covers (I can feel the heat in my feet). I thought that it was a problem of my motorbike, since I bought it used and the previous owner put 2.5 liters of oil in it, but from what your are telling me it looks like this is normal for these engines.

mvaldo

[upgasgas1224]

ordered my oil cooler a few days ago ill try and give you guys ir readings of the whole bike before and after the install

[OneLeggedRider]

Well.. I wouldn't fault anybody for putting an oil cooler on, it's probably a good idea. That being said, these little motors were designed to handle that heat. From the research I've found Honda designed the CG engine without an overhead cam because the people using them didn't change the oil and might even be using vegetable oil or worse for lubrication. I started out on air cooled XRs and ATCs and we would putt putt these things around in the woods for hours with almost no air passing over the motor. Even today I have a 94 FourTrax 200D that still runs the original factory spark plug and centrifugal clutch. Just change the oil, often.