Zongshen parts direct from China

[sqwert]

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

...
6 speed should be fine but might need to special order or just order all parts to assemble the engine or change to 6 speed
No 6 speed isn’t an extra overdrive
It’s pretty much same 1st n top gear with more divisions in between

My experience is Yoshimura trans in Honda 100 and 125 and TT-R230 and XT 225 trans in TW200. Same. Set 1st same as OEM with final drive, 5th of the old trans will be about the same as 6th with the new trans.

Problem I had with the Hondas was half the displacement made about the same power as the TT. Stock, peak horses where 11,00rpm or so. My race engines put out about as much as a RX3, between 13k and 14k. Not enough powerband to handle the stock ratio gaps. This caused slow starts because 100CC bikes with tires small enough to spin out of the hole wore tires too small to put down power when sliding. Then, every shift took 2 or 3 seconds to get back in the power band. A 5 lap sprint would be lost before the 1st curve. The closer ratios from the extra gear fixed that acceleration problem, but had zilch effect on hole shot or top speed, resulting in fastest 3 getting to the 1st curve instead of dead last, every time. Great fun pissing of the 2-stroke riders.

The problem with TWs was 3-4 and 4-5 with the stock trans, the stock engine would shift right off the bottom of the powerband. Uphill and or headwind was often 4th gear/50mph. That's all she would pull. BUT, if you found a downhill and got her up to 70mph in 5th, she would stay there up the same hill that was 50mph 4th gear because she was making a lot more power at 7700rpm than at 5500 rpm. Same thing happened between 3rd and 4th. With a 6-speed, 4th was higher, so would wind up into the bottom of the powerband in 5th, then 5th was higher so would wind up into the bottom of the powerband in 6th. With no other change, the bike would then pull itself up to 70mph on hills it used to run max 50. Gearing is everything, folks.

This discussion reminds me of a '69 SS396 L89 Camaro my sister wrecked. Drove it on the street and did a ton of 1/8-mile drag racing. Hookers, 2 1.5 inch duals with crossover and turbo mufflers were the only mods to the engine. Yet this plated street car with stock interior, even 4-channel 8-track and air conditioning, and the baby's car seat, regularly dusted highly modified race only Hemi and Wedge 'Cudas, Boss and Cobra Jet Mustangs, other SS and Z28 Camaros, even an AMX, no problem, consistently, on street tires. How? 12-bolt rear, Estrada rebuilt positraction, and 5.38 gears. Everyone else ran 4.11 gears, better on the quarter where my stock block 396 would run out of RPM. On the eighth, they were consistently embarrassed by my wife's "grocery getter".

That's where I learned the importance of gear ratios, and that knowledge over the years won tons of races. It's one of the "secret" differences between a winner and a consistent also-ran.

[sqwert]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

6 speed has 2nd overdrive gear. Anything less than 1:1 is overdrive.

Here are the gear specifications.
6 Gear-Primary 3.33 1st Gear 2.909 2nd Gear 1.867 3rd Gear 1.389 4th Gear 1.15 5th Gear 0.95 6th Gear 0.80

5 speed specifications- "Primary: 3.333; first gear: 2.909,Second gear: 1.867; third gear: 1.389,Fourth gear: 1.150; fifth gear: 0.9545 "

I doubt most folks would feel the difference between 0.95 and 0.9545. Just guessing, but if you count the teeth, same numbers? I'm guessing since the first 4 match, the 5th does, too, so your only difference is rounding to how many places? First 5 of the 6-speed is almost exactly the same as the 5-speed. In this case, 6th is pretty much adding another overdrive. This is not what I found with the Yoshimura and Yamaha trans sets.

TW
1st 34/12 = 2.833
2nd 34/19 = 1.789
3rd 26/22 = 1.182
4th 26/25 = 1.040
5th 23/28 = 0.821

XT225
1st 34/11 = 3.091
2nd 30/15 = 2.000
3rd 30/21 = 1.429
4th 27/24 = 1.125
5th 27/25 = 1.080
6th 23/29 = 0.793

TT-R230
1st 38/13 = 2.923
2nd 31/18 = 1.722
3rd 30/21 = 1.429
4th 27/24 = 1.125
5th 27/25 = 1.080
6th 23/29 = 0.793

The XT225 is supposed to have the widest ratio 6-speed trans in the dual sport realm. Difference between highest and lowest ratios:

5-speeds:
2.3785 JH's bike.
2.012 TW

6-speeds:
3.1785 JH's bike with a 6th gear.
2.298 XT
2.130 TT

I would carefully test ride that bike because I'd expect unless it is a diesel it is going to have a difficult time keeping on the power band.

[NzBrakelathes]

theory all is theory
Every batch can change
No one knows for sure the details in stuff and that’s where it often goes wrong
Yes can do 6 speed but is the gear ratio as you say? Seller or warehouse won’t kniwband won’t ask cause it doesn’t sell.
Even bikes get sold with mix of 5 or 6 speed unknowingly

So us western folk ask too much in the minds of locals

Then if not the ratio you want I carry the can
Only so much a person can manage with a single engine sale
However you want a container you dictate each spec no worries
Simple stuff here is a nightmare if it’s not what is under their noses
Loads of experiences with mistakes time wasted and dramas

[JerryHawk250]

So in not so many words. Not all 6 speeds are created equal. And like most of the Chinese specification found, it may not be correct.

Originally Posted by sqwert

I doubt most folks would feel the difference between 0.95 and 0.9545. Just guessing, but if you count the teeth, same numbers? I'm guessing since the first 4 match, the 5th does, too, so your only difference is rounding to how many places? First 5 of the 6-speed is almost exactly the same as the 5-speed. In this case, 6th is pretty much adding another overdrive. This is not what I found with the Yoshimura and Yamaha trans sets.

TW
1st 34/12 = 2.833
2nd 34/19 = 1.789
3rd 26/22 = 1.182
4th 26/25 = 1.040
5th 23/28 = 0.821

XT225
1st 34/11 = 3.091
2nd 30/15 = 2.000
3rd 30/21 = 1.429
4th 27/24 = 1.125
5th 27/25 = 1.080
6th 23/29 = 0.793

TT-R230
1st 38/13 = 2.923
2nd 31/18 = 1.722
3rd 30/21 = 1.429
4th 27/24 = 1.125
5th 27/25 = 1.080
6th 23/29 = 0.793

The XT225 is supposed to have the widest ratio 6-speed trans in the dual sport realm. Difference between highest and lowest ratios:

5-speeds:
2.3785 JH's bike.
2.012 TW

6-speeds:
3.1785 JH's bike with a 6th gear.
2.298 XT
2.130 TT

I would carefully test ride that bike because I'd expect unless it is a diesel it is going to have a difficult time keeping on the power band.

[JerryHawk250]

Here are the specifications from Loncin which would confirm the 6th gear is a 2nd overdrive gear. I found one on Aliexpress but shipping is crazy high. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Modi...844968598.html

[NzBrakelathes]

Sure
Willing to put a deposit down while I source the motor and once I hand pay the balance then illl DHL ship

[sqwert]

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

theory all is theory
Every batch can change
No one knows for sure the details in stuff and that’s where it often goes wrong
Yes can do 6 speed but is the gear ratio as you say? Seller or warehouse won’t kniwband won’t ask cause it doesn’t sell.
Even bikes get sold with mix of 5 or 6 speed unknowingly

So us western folk ask too much in the minds of locals

Then if not the ratio you want I carry the can
Only so much a person can manage with a single engine sale
However you want a container you dictate each spec no worries
Simple stuff here is a nightmare if it’s not what is under their noses
Loads of experiences with mistakes time wasted and dramas

That is exactly why you are cherished. You look, you learn, and you speak something similar to American. My grandson's friend-who-is-a-girl and the only other kid in the class who is as smart as he is (how many 1st graders do you know who can do 100% of addition including multi digit addends, subtraction of similar values, answer multiplication facts 0 x 0 to 10 x 10 at least 4 different ways, and working on division?), born of Chinese citizens who now figured having 3 girls, China won't want them back, has a pretty cool daddy who has told me quite a bit about business in China, which is why he and his wife had 3 girls after coming here legally and now has an excuse for permanent residency and eventually citizenship? You will NOT be taken for granted.

My understanding is that very few Chinese children actually are as intelligent and well educated as the media espouses. Youngsters do what they are told and wear uniforms as instructed to avoid being beaten or going hungry. Every few years tests are administered and they are competitive--only the best move up to the next level of academics. The rest are shunted off to alternative training like trade schools or just shoved out in the street. Just like the rest of the world, with painful consequences for disrupting the learning environment. Great way to provide supreme educations for a few. Most of the rest of the world does exactly the same thing. Once heard a teacher in Japan had a letter put in his file for beating a kid to death, then was sent back to the same class to continue teaching. Never heard anything nearly that sicko about China, not even close. The Chinese parents and grandparents I know truly love their children, but they all have extremely high expectations.

Anywho, JerryHawk seems really smart for someone living in Louisiana. For the rest of you yet to figure it out, here's how gearing works. I'm going to use the TW, TT-R, and XT parts as examples because I've calculated and actually built 3 of those. Keep in mind that all three are built different, so each requires different ratios to maximize the potentials.

We will start with the café racer: 180/60-17 rear tire, TT-R 230 trans. The TT-R, ST, and TW all have 22 teeth on the primary drive sprocket on the crank and 73 teeth on the primary driven sprocket on the clutch. Note that may not be true for all the different displacements and model years of all three model families, and I know nothing of the TT-R225, so can't help. However, MY TT-Rs, XTs, and TWs are all the same. Therefore, our primary drive ratio is 73 teeth divided by 22 teeth = ~3.381:1.

The TT-R trans 6th gear has 23 teeth driven divided by 29 teeth drive = ~ 0.793:1 transmission drive ratio.

The café 276 is highly modified and I assigned a redline of 11,000rpm because it quits pulling just before that. Since I am stuck with primary and trans ratios, and tire rolling diameter, I'll have to tweek final drive ratio (chain and sprockets) to provide 11,000rpm at the speed I want the bike to actually go, 101mph.

First, determine the rolling radius of the tire, a 180/60-17 street performance tire. Do not give the measurements of the tire provided by manufacturers. Those are new tires, not loaded, and often not properly inflated, and often on different size wheels. Prop the bike perfectly perpendicular to the measuring surface, both ends of the axle the same distance off a flat surface at the centers of each end. Sit on the bike in the position appropriate for the speed you wish to run. Whatever this measurement is, in my case, 12.87 inches, multiply by 6.2832, which is really pi x 2. Doesn't matter what order factors are multiplied, and this 12.87 inches X 6.2832 will give you my rolling circumference in inches 80.865 inches. That is the distance my rear tire rolls with 1 full revolution.

1 mile is 5280 feet x 12 inches per foot, foot (feet) cancel out, so 1 mile is 63,360 inches. Divide that by 80.865 and I have ~783.53 tire revolutions per mile.

101 miles per hour, the speed I want to go, times 783.53 tire revolutions per mile, is 79,338.53 wheel revolutions per 101 miles. Other relevant terms cancel out.

Now, if I want to find out how many wheel revolutions per minute, I have to divide 79,338.53 by 60 minutes per hour, which yields ~1322.31 wheel revolutions per minute.

Since desired engine revolutions per minute is 11,000, I have to divide that by the desired wheel revolutions per minute to find out what the overall gear ratio needs to be. 11,000 / 1322.31 = 8.319:1.

To find out what our final drive ratio, sprockets and chain, needs to be, we have to multiply primary gear ratio times transmission gear ratio, then divide that into overall gear ratio 8.319/(3.381 x 0.793) = ?. I could have put an "x" there but didn't want to cause any panic attacks by sending you back to algebra class, so ?

3.381 x 0.793 = ~2.681

8.319 / 2.681 = ~3.103

If I got the wrong answer it is because I used a calculator with tiny buttons and I have fat fingers. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

To calculate sprockets, pick an available size. I like bigger countershaft sprockets because they last longer. The biggest countershaft sprocket for 520 chain that will fit on a TW output shaft is 14 teeth. So, lets try 14.

Final drive ratio times countershaft sprocket teeth yields wheel sprocket teeth. 3.103 x 14 = 43.442 teeth. Can't do 0.442, so just drop it and go 43.

Now the café racer is geared for a 101mph redline, within a couple miles per hour or two. I actually ended up with 40 teeth because that better took care of down hills. 106mph on GPS, probably world's fastest TW.

So, that is how you use all that algebra you were supposed to learn to calculate sprocket tooth counts. See, your teachers really did love you.

[sqwert]

Oh, unless bikes are identical you have to go through the entire process for each combination of parts. The café racer has the TT-R 230 trans, higher compression, and more radical cam with a custom exhaust designed to stack back pressures, reversions, and such at 11,000 rpm. Tdub2 is an adventure bike with lower compression and a milder cam with a custom exhaust to distribute back pressures, reversions, and such a bit to provide a nice powerband at road speeds, dies about 9000 rpm, but otherwise pretty much like the stock RX3 with a 300 kit. Runs about 90mph with the right gearing, but I've dropped that to 78mph redline because that is fast enough. Transmission is from a XT225. The last has the same cam as Tdub2, same ratios XT trans, but the exhaust is designed to more widely distribute back pressures, reversions, and such over an even fatter power band, so it is lower peak horsepower, all else the same. Its powerband starts at idle and climbs steadily to 8000 rpm, then dies. That's the way ATV tires like it. Redline is 70mph, because that is where the tire is rated.

Had to go through the entire math sequence with each bike. I've had the headache for about 20 years.

[NzBrakelathes]

Originally Posted by Paeksukis

Yep. It is RX3S/Rx4 headlight. Just plug and play. But it is not aesthetically pleasing as there are some gaps between the light and the windshield. Some just make their own windshield to cover the gaps.

Currently, many of my friends are using that headlight now eventhough it cost a lot of money. But, the headlight unit is a lot brighter and the beam pattern is also great.

One of my friend spent a lot of money and bought the whole RX3S/RX4 mounting kit. But he hasnt install it yet because some part's missing. He has to wait for another shipping.

Thanks for the photos and SORRY your/HIS supplier (Which isn't me) can't get his orders right.
PLEASE read the title this is MY thread for parts I SUPPLY - not some other seller etc.

I didn't supply to Pakistan as there are LIMITED option to pay/send/deal with etc so yes I strongly suggest you lads talk to your importer rather then me and asking me how to do something that I sell but not wanting to BUY anything (look at me Facebook page!)

[sqwert]

Headlight on my 2015 RX3 with chintzy 35 watt H4 really sucked. I've heard nothing 100% positive about any U. S. of A. legal option other than 55 watt halogens, and those are not the best illumination.

Major improvement with Sylvania 9003 Silverstar Ultra. DOT legal. Said to last only 2000 hours and roadside swap would be a royal pain on a rainy night, so switched to CSC's DOT acceptable LED.

LED high beams generally are low beam plus a few more diodes. Therefore, low beam provides bright light close up that causes partial night blindness so high beams don't seem to work well. Fact is, high beam doesn't seem to work at all. In stock RX3 fixture, LED low beam set at 1 inch drop per 25 feet works nicely on the highway, but there is about 15* black pattern between low and high beam, so when properly adjusted on low beam, high beam is completely off the road, up in the trees. No wonder it does not seem to work. Tilt headlight down so high beam illuminates the road, and low beam pattern is way too close and bright, completely useless at highway speeds, and way too much night blinding. This is just the way LEDs with fixed low beam are, not really exclusive to CSC's in particular.

I will be home tomorrow to try a 55 watt HID that moves the light source from low beam to high beam position in the bulb. Supposedly the RX3 headlight housing is one of the rare fixtures that properly patterns the odd shape of the HID arc on low beam. Could we be so lucky? The 55 watt HID should be 6 or 7 times as bright as the original Zongshen H4, and last years longer, so roadside rain replacements in the dark should not be much of a worry.

Now, if this option actually works I'll give all the info to NZ so he can get us a good price compared to other options that sort of work.

[StevieUT]

Originally Posted by Paeksukis

One of my friend spent a lot of money and bought the whole RX3S/RX4 mounting kit. But he hasnt install it yet because some part's missing. He has to wait for another shipping.

Ok, sounds good! If you can, let us know how your friend makes out with the mounting kit. I'm assuming that allows the use of the RX4 windshield, etc...

[NzBrakelathes]

Originally Posted by StevieUT

Ok, sounds good! If you can, let us know how your friend makes out with the mounting kit. I'm assuming that allows the use of the RX4 windshield, etc...

I’ve lookex at all 3 versions
Non will directly bolt over frame wise and RX3S RX4 differ
I doubt the new light would be so much greater then others and I’m not thinking people would want to spend that amount on parts and shipping
Don’t hijack my thread thanks everyone!

[StevieUT]

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

I’ve lookex at all 3 versions
Non will directly bolt over frame wise and RX3S RX4 differ
I doubt the new light would be so much greater then others and I’m not thinking people would want to spend that amount on parts and shipping
Don’t hijack my thread thanks everyone!

Sorry Nz! Didn't mean to hijack your thread! Thought if it was a good retrofit, might be something you could source. Sounds like a no-go. No worries!

[NzBrakelathes]

Originally Posted by StevieUT

Sorry Nz! Didn't mean to hijack your thread! Thought if it was a good retrofit, might be something you could source. Sounds like a no-go. No worries!

Anything is possible but what would it all cost to ship? How can it be shipped without costing the earth, I tend to do individual orders not large orders so in some ways much better service or much more complex

[NzBrakelathes]

There’s some funky stuff you can buy here!
Mind you this getting near a NC motor or double a CB259/CG250 motor