Question about carbs and jets

[BARLOW]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

I don't have a Hawk or Storm but gearing is gearing. It's been years so let me check Q tonight and I'll let you know. The OHC Suzuki-type motor in Q is hungrier than the pushrod CG Hondoid and uses bigger jets and also, revs higher, more comfortably. This may make a difference on top speed.

Your Storm may push a 40 rear sprocket after you jet it. Plus, if you're running the stock exhaust with cat in it, that's going to hamper things. At least take the stock muffler off and bang that cat out of there to free it up some.....or get an FMF Turbine Core 2 Universal Spark Arrestor muffler. Kinda loud but inexpensive. I run them on everything.

i was looking at the t.core 2, but i wasnt seeing how it would mount parallel to the rear of the frame like the factory one does (where the side plastic is made for it) without the need to bend some pipe, and i do not have a bender ... the pipe side of the factory muffler turns down so it is an odd angle

[Entropy]

Has anyone installed the FMF on a Hawk yet?

[2LZ]

The TC2 comes with a nice stainless pipe with a bend in it that can be twisted around to match most header pipes (proper diameter) if it's even remotely pointing in the right direction. I had to bend some pipe on my X-Moto but that was the exception.

Found the old thread of the install on the X-moto. Now THIS was one messed up pipe! I can't imagine any of your guys pipes is even close to this mangled from the factory.... It was a mess, inside and out.

http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6954

Do you guys have a pic of your header pipes where they meet the muffler?

[BlackBike]

Hell, that' my 2015, yet you say the cat was in the muffler. It's in the head now as you know.

Thanks for the memories of 2010. Great team effort.

Barlow, you need some smooth wall stainless steel for a quick trick flow.

[BlackBike]

2LZ...

Barlow really seems to be the motivated cat on this little pump. Can you or have you heard of head port polishing with the valves. Would it be enough of a significant difference in power flow. It is such a short space in the head I wonder if it would be of any benifent, wouldn't hurt.

Seem like I saw something like this on that cafe racer show with the limey bikes on tv.

[BARLOW]

Originally Posted by BlackBike

2LZ...

Barlow really seems to be the motivated cat on this little pump. Can you or have you heard of head port polishing with the valves. Would it be enough of a significant difference in power flow. It is such a short space in the head I wonder if it would be of any benifent, wouldn't hurt.

Seem like I saw something like this on that cafe racer show with the limey bikes on tv.

i am not thinking that polishing is going to be the big ticket here, unless i can come up with a way to fab up or at least clean up the currant intake ... i may have found a guy that will cut open my cat and factory muffler and weld it back up for me, not sure if i want the baffle fully removed or leave about 10" of the pipe in the end yet, as i am not sure how it works yet ... as far down as i can see inside the muffler it is just a small smooth pipe inside a big pipe, so whatever it is doing, it is doing down at the bend and i cant see down there ... i think i am going to get some new stones for my dremel and port match the head at the very least ... i really need to locate a cheap used head i can play around with and still ride my bike ... i also heard rumor that there was a better cam out there that will fit, but i have had no luck locating one yet ... i would love to build this 230 up to where i can run 60 or so at like 3/4 throttle ... i know it can be done, if i could just find the right parts and someone willing to mill a head down a few hundred microns, or if i knew of a piston that the wrist pin set down a few hundred microns ... just not sure it will make much more power with only 8.7:1 compression ... hell, i was getting as much horsepower out of a 5hp brigs on stock parts as this is making stock, with just a twist of the cam and a little off the head, of course it was running alcohol

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by BlackBike

2LZ...

Barlow really seems to be the motivated cat on this little pump. Can you or have you heard of head port polishing with the valves. Would it be enough of a significant difference in power flow. It is such a short space in the head I wonder if it would be of any benifent, wouldn't hurt.

Seem like I saw something like this on that cafe racer show with the limey bikes on tv.

I've ported and polished a ton of bikes over the years, both 2 and 4 stroke. On the 4 strokes, I only bothered to do it if I was totally building the motor maxed out. Intakes, cams, carb, exhaust, ignition, etc.... It would make virtually no difference on these. These little motors are set up for torque and longevity. You can open the holes all you want, it will only feed so much.

[BlackBike]

I figured as much. Still, it's fun to watch.

[BARLOW]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

I've ported and polished a ton of bikes over the years, both 2 and 4 stroke. On the 4 strokes, I only bothered to do it if I was totally building the motor maxed out. Intakes, cams, carb, exhaust, ignition, etc.... It would make virtually no difference on these. These little motors are set up for torque and longevity. You can open the holes all you want, it will only feed so much.

so you think these are pulling at the max right now? is there any way to be sure? what about a degree or two on the timing? i just need to find a way to get 3 or 4 more hp from it ... it almost has to be there somewhere ... i really need another head to play with ... dont want to spend $150 on a slip on pipe just to find out it just makes it sound better and i think the carb is about as good as it is going to get, although i may try one size jet bigger (at 115 right now) ... i just cant see any reason that 230cc cant make 20hp, but i have been wrong once before, yep, just that one time

[BlackBike]

Remember mad max? You need "a blower man, a blower" !

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by BARLOW

so you think these are pulling at the max right now? is there any way to be sure? what about a degree or two on the timing? i just need to find a way to get 3 or 4 more hp from it ... it almost has to be there somewhere ... i really need another head to play with ... dont want to spend $150 on a slip on pipe just to find out it just makes it sound better and i think the carb is about as good as it is going to get, although i may try one size jet bigger (at 115 right now) ... i just cant see any reason that 230cc cant make 20hp, but i have been wrong once before, yep, just that one time

Oh! believe me! I understand the need to find something to play with and mod. My Rhino has been the recent recipient of my OCD.

All I can advise if this. Engine mods need to balance all the way through to perform properly. It makes (almost) no difference if you change just a couple of the components along that path, if you're wanting max output. Start at the breather and work your way through to the tail pipe. If you open, change or modify the carb, the exhaust (and cat removal) need to be done, as well or it won't allow the mod upstream to perform to its maximum. Just picture sucking on a drinking straw. If the straw will only allow so much air through it, it doesn't matter if the straw had a garden hose hooked up to it upstream. The straw will only allow so much volume regardless of how hard you suck. Also, I've never had to adjust timing on any CB I've had. After I checked the first couple and found they werre on, I left them alone.

As an example: On Q (200cc), It's rated at 15+ hp stock. The air box is a wonderful piece of free breathing work so there was no need to change, I just drilled a bunch of holes in the top of it. The carb is a real Mikuni CV out of the factory so it just needed proper jetting. The only real mod that needed to balance the system was the slip on pipe to free up the exhaust, since the cat was in the muffler. My header pipe is free and clear.

There was a member here who did these mods (back when Q's were the hot item) and had a dyno. He dyno'd his QLink XF 200 at 20hp after these mods.....so on an OHC motor, that extra 5 hp you're searching for is achievable, without porting, with just the basic, balanced mods. On the pushrod Hondoid motor, we have no actual dyno numbers.....but I can tell you this, my X-moto 200 (163FML) runs GREAT and has much more power with just a breather, properly jetted stock PZ carb and a cat-free exhaust with a TC2.

[SeerAtlas]

one other thing, some chat went round that the cdi used on the hawk hondoid might have a rev limiter built in. wonder if all the mfg's are doing this to save the motors. when you max out is it rather sudden or progressive?

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by SeerAtlas

one other thing, some chat went round that the cdi used on the hawk hondoid might have a rev limiter built in. wonder if all the mfg's are doing this to save the motors. when you max out is it rather sudden or progressive?

I have yet to hit the rev limiter on my X-moto pushrod Hondoid. They're more of a torque, mid-range type of setup, it seems. Maybe I just ride mellow????